Fantasy 2022 - EMPIRE League - Discussion

[A11dAtP0w3R]

MFL dont take good advice and suggestions tho, they prefer to get their info off irrelevant sites like Fantasy Sharks (probably the last place id look for depth charts).

Its the same for everyone tho so it is what it is.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Just wish it was the same as what drd said, would make things far less annoying. Fleaflicker have edge and IDL

Thats one of the issues i just last week hassled them about...how fleaflicker is catching up and overtaking them in many ways, that MFL needs to move with the times and start incorporating such options, instead of how they have not made changes and updates in 10 years, risk of falling behind. And fleaflicker is free, and MFL just announced a price hike. Saying to them how can they justify that given the lack of improvements and additions over 10 years....and the reply....not planning on any changes now or near future

 

[J Shuttlesworth]

Thats one of the issues i just last week hassled them about...how fleaflicker is catching up and overtaking them in many ways, that MFL needs to move with the times and start incorporating such options, instead of how they have not made changes and updates in 10 years, risk of falling behind. And fleaflicker is free, and MFL just announced a price hike. Saying to them how can they justify that given the lack of improvements and additions over 10 years....and the reply....not planning on any changes now or near future

Out of interest, what do you still see MFL ahead in?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Out of interest, what do you still see MFL ahead in?

1. Salary cap and contracts
2. Open auction
3. Deluxe league (two conferences)
4. More complex scoring algorithms...like score x pts but y pts if such and such is z type stuff

Fleaflicker tho...
1. Edge/Interior options
2. More scoring options like broken tackles, qb hurries, times targeted and completions against for DBs (can help boost shutdown corners so the actual good fantasy CBs arent the bad ones)
3 Free
4. Scoring algorithms might not be as complex but simple is often better (less mistakes and incorrectly working algorithms) and it does the job still as intended

 

[LennyHayes77]

The more i think about it the more i think all the scoring should be reverted to what it was.
Maybe its too late but things shouldn't be changed without a good deal of pre warning so we can prepare for them

 

[Exe Gesis]

The more i think about it the more i think all the scoring should be reverted to what it was.
Maybe its too late but things shouldn't be changed without a good deal of pre warning so we can prepare for them

That's a fair point. And J Shuttlesworth said the same so well prior too.

At the very least, I did inform everyone that scoring had changed prior to the season kicking off, prior to the auction, prior to the re-signings. I did do that.

It was bad that the offense initially lost their 20-40 pts when I removed Team First Downs. But, it's good that TGBB, Stringer and others noticed the differences were too much, caught them sooner than later. I put the Team First Downs back because it's a fair criticism.

I still vouch for the hybrid tho because offense is back to where it was largely so. So the anger or complaints about offense are no longer the case. All that's different is the IDPs are better among themselves than the old system for them. Def wasn't made better than O. It was just giving them a more even range (150-200), MFL making positional changes on us doesn't hurt. That DT turned DE can be kept because he'll score fairly the same whether he was a DT or DE. That DE turned LB can be kept because the same.

Like Dagless said well....as good as the argument is to revert everything back is the argument to keep the Hybrid as is and move forward given the auctions and trades already made. The damage in reverting is probably more than the damage in staying with hybrid.

It's unfortunate that the changes happened without a vote or detailed outline of the change...that's on me. I apologize for that. But, might as well push forward with the hybrid rather than reverting and then potentially re-installing it next off-season. Offense isn't affected anymore with hybrid or reverting. It's just a matter of whether you agree that it's better to have IDPs normalized in that 150-200 range and able to withstand MFL positional changes. No need to cut/trade players that move from 3-4 to 4-3 NFL defenses due to the weaker old IDP scoring.

 

[Exe Gesis]

If there's a clear preference to revert, that's fine.

I prefer hybrid for the reasons above, that's no lie/mystery I encourage it. But if the majority prefer revert, it's not taken like a slight against me, bad blood.

The competition standard for all 16 owners exists the same whether revert or hybrid. We all have to compete equally against the system regardless which system. There's no advantage to one or another. It's just objectively the hybrid IDP thing is a benefit to us as managers and an improvement on the weaker previous IDP thing, shame to abandon it now when we did engage the auction/trades factoring that in. The offense is already back largely so.

That's my last politicking on it. Decide away.

 

[peterbuch74]

Still hybrid vote for me

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Bosa a new 5 year deal please GG.exe .. might as well lock defensive players in for as long as possible on the lower points scale incase we end up changing

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

That's a fair point. And J Shuttlesworth said the same so well prior too.

At the very least, I did inform everyone that scoring had changed prior to the season kicking off, prior to the auction, prior to the re-signings. I did do that.

It was bad that the offense initially lost their 20-40 pts when I removed Team First Downs. But, it's good that TGBB, Stringer and others noticed the differences were too much, caught them sooner than later. I put the Team First Downs back because it's a fair criticism.

I still vouch for the hybrid tho because offense is back to where it was largely so. So the anger or complaints about offense are no longer the case. All that's different is the IDPs are better among themselves than the old system for them. Def wasn't made better than O. It was just giving them a more even range (150-200), MFL making positional changes on us doesn't hurt. That DT turned DE can be kept because he'll score fairly the same whether he was a DT or DE. That DE turned LB can be kept because the same.

Like Dagless said well....as good as the argument is to revert everything back is the argument to keep the Hybrid as is and move forward given the auctions and trades already made. The damage in reverting is probably more than the damage in staying with hybrid.

It's unfortunate that the changes happened without a vote or detailed outline of the change...that's on me. I apologize for that. But, might as well push forward with the hybrid rather than reverting and then potentially re-installing it next off-season. Offense isn't affected anymore with hybrid or reverting. It's just a matter of whether you agree that it's better to have IDPs normalized in that 150-200 range and able to withstand MFL positional changes. No need to cut/trade players that move from 3-4 to 4-3 NFL defenses due to the weaker old IDP scoring.

I think Lenny is saying revert to what it was last season. Ie changed from option 2 to option 1. Drafting/trading decisions have been made for years based on it. Your fault you changed it during this period without proper consultation. Nobody was aware of full extent until I raised it. So one impacted auction is no argument to just keep your changes. Plus voting clearly showing to revert back to last season. Not sure why you keep resisting

Option 1... 5.5
tgbb, adp, drd23, Dixie, Lenny, shiny 1/2

Option 2... 3.5
peterbuch, stinger, bgt2110, shiny 1/2,

dagless, arakaan - revote

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Nobody was aware of full extent until I raised it.

except for Dagless, this is true id imagine.

Some of the blame goes to us for being lazy bastards and not checking prior, but when GG uses "tinkering" in his post alerting us to it, it made it seem as though they were minor changes, not league altering. Very slimy and Liberal Party-ish

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I dont blame Dagless at all either for wanting it to remain, if he was smart enough to get a leg up on everyone else like he has he does deserve to be rewarded.

Happy to do whatever the majority say, this has dragged on long enough.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Sorry, the tags from this thread dropped off my radar for some reason. Voting for option 1.

 

[J Shuttlesworth]

Sorry, the tags from this thread dropped off my radar for some reason. Voting for option 1.

Must have still been using Zach Wilson's 2021 radar?

 

[Dagless]

I dont blame Dagless at all either for wanting it to remain, if he was smart enough to get a leg up on everyone else like he has he does deserve to be rewarded.

Happy to do whatever the majority say, this has dragged on long enough.

General assumption is it changes slightly every year and review as such. Nothing to do with a leg up.

One of the reasons I was willing to drop cashola last year on Ioannidis. Was a top 3 DT the year before his injury in that scoring system which I was willing to take a risk on for a million dollar contract. Didn’t return to that level, partially performance but partially scoring changes.

To be honest though, it doesn’t really change the value of players within positions. LBers all went up the same general amount, same with DTs DEs etc. I know people rightfully are annoyed at the process but I genuinely don’t think it impacts enough comparative to last year to try and ‘two wrong makes a right’ it.

 

[arakaan]

I think Lenny is saying revert to what it was last season. Ie changed from option 2 to option 1. Drafting/trading decisions have been made for years based on it. Your fault you changed it during this period without proper consultation. Nobody was aware of full extent until I raised it. So one impacted auction is no argument to just keep your changes. Plus voting clearly showing to revert back to last season. Not sure why you keep resisting

Option 1... 5.5
tgbb, adp, drd23, Dixie, Lenny, shiny 1/2

Option 2... 3.5
peterbuch, stinger, bgt2110, shiny 1/2,

dagless, arakaan - revote

As there was no vote to remove the option I voted for, this was a violation of the greatest magnitude that I just cannot stand for.

So I demand the reinstatement of option 3 and I vote for that again.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

General assumption is it changes slightly every year and review as such. Nothing to do with a leg up.

One of the reasons I was willing to drop cashola last year on Ioannidis. Was a top 3 DT the year before his injury in that scoring system which I was willing to take a risk on for a million dollar contract. Didn’t return to that level, partially performance but partially scoring changes.

To be honest though, it doesn’t really change the value of players within positions. LBers all went up the same general amount, same with DTs DEs etc. I know people rightfully are annoyed at the process but I genuinely don’t think it impacts enough comparative to last year to try and ‘two wrong makes a right’ it.

I was going stupid with you on Ioannidis also, I dont think scoring changes had much to do with it (if anything), mainly his play dropping off a cliff since the injury, hence him ending up in Carolina this offseason on a one year deal.

Looking at the individual player records it appears the scoring has been calculated exactly the same way for DTs over the years







...correct me if im wrong

 

[Dagless]

I was going stupid with you on Ioannidis also, I dont think scoring changes had much to do with it (if anything), mainly his play dropping off a cliff since the injury, hence him ending up in Carolina this offseason on a one year deal.

Looking at the individual player records it appears the scoring has been calculated exactly the same way for DTs over the years

View attachment 1401527

View attachment 1401528

View attachment 1401529

...correct me if im wrong

Yeah seems mostly consistent. Ie slight changes. But the point was it’s a comparison to previous seasons I make most years and reviewing MI output three years prior is why I bid on him. Not as big changes as I thought (but also should compare what the same game suggested if MFL let you)

 

[Exe Gesis]

In this new scoring... In order for the 150-250 thing to uniformalize, DTs went down 10 say. CBs and S up 10 say, LBs and DEs up 40 say (because they were so harshly unfairly scored before -- bad math too).

So if a player gets changed from DT to DE or DE to LB or LB to DE or DE to DT....there should be a far smaller gap. Around 10 say. Not rendering them useless to us regardless of the positional changes.

 

[Exe Gesis]

There are only a handful of IDPs who break that 150-200 ceiling because theyre elite and tend to have beastly seasons/stats. Donald 280 Watt 280. The old and new same. But now Heyward 270, Parsons 240. Thats about it. That Falcons LB 220. All other IDPs will fall in that 150-200 range (average to above average). There are obviously bad ones who go under 150. But the point was to uniformalize them so DE/LB are treated more equally, and that required re-analyzing NFL stats and doing better math.

Offense in the old system and hybrid system is very similar again. Their range is more 200-300. The majority of average to above average. Likewise, therell be a handful (but more) who break the ceiling of their peers. Kupp 432, Brady Allen Mahomes 400, Taylor Rodgers Andrews, Kelce etc 350-380. Theyre all similar old/new

The best stay best, middle stay middle, bad stay bad, and all in the same relative ranking as previously to each other.

Sure, DE/LB gained 20-40+ depending how good they are, but theyre now equal among DT, CB, S.

Before they were far too badly scored that even kickers and punters were scoring same as or more than the best DEs

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Im more than happy to change it to your proposed system next offseason, think there is some merit to it. Honestly think that is best resolution.. people have a better understanding of the changes that will take place, nobody can say they weren't given warning, and people like Dagless who have bid on these changes aren't penalised entirely knowing the changes will be coming in for the majority of the contracts they've given out this offseason.

Majority vote this season, with scoring changes for LBs and DEs to take effect next year if not this season. Keeps everyone (somewhat) happy.

 

[Blacky]

I vote we defer any changes for 12 months in line with what ADP said above

 

[Exe Gesis]

The argument tho is the IDP changes are already in prior to this season being played, prior to people making auction bids. So there was no detrimental affect. But removing it now means everyone is affected. It's not like I'm arguing to bring them in now, mid-auction. Youre arguing to remove them mid-auction.

Then there is the whole process of re-building the scoring rules next off season (manual intensive). No un-revert option. Overwriting it now loses it all.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

The argument tho is the IDP changes are already in prior to this season being played, prior to people making auction bids. So there was no detrimental affect. But removing it now means everyone is affected. It's not like I'm arguing to bring them in now, mid-auction. Youre arguing to remove them mid-auction.

Then there is the whole process of re-building the scoring rules next off season (manual intensive). No un-revert option. Overwriting it now loses it all.

Guess if the majority vote is to revert back to 2021 scoring it will have to stay then since its too hard wont it.

 

[Exe Gesis]

People wont gain a better understanding next off season because theyll just see a hypothetical total points theyre seeing already in the Player Stats page.