Fantasy 2022 - EMPIRE League - Discussion

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A11dAtP0w3R

Organising Trident's is my specialty
Oct 18, 2013
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Tie breakers first based on div record. Yours vs ours in West. If say you and me and peterbuch and tgbb, or any two of that group, first is div record, then conf record, then h2h, then PR.

Why isn't h2h first? Isn't that the #1 tie breaker in the NFL?
 

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GG.exe

Kylo was here
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I think my idea originally was to make it a bit more of a robust/fairer method.

Div records even for cross-div teams suggest how well you even went in your own div. Tho if youre in a very tough or very weak div, that can skew things. Conf record is a good method tho, how well you faired among all eight teams in your conf. Then it goes to h2h. Then all-play and PR are all fine.
 

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Kylo was here
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Eg, lets say its you and me fighting over 2nd wc spot. I mightve got lucky that one game vs you, but across the six div ganes, you faired better, say, in a tough division with say 3-3 record, whereas i went say 2-4 in my weaker division. So tho i mightve lucked out that ONE game, overall across those 6 div games, i was the weaker team. Works in that scenario.

If say you and me are tied on div record too, maybe say you showed yourself better across the entire 10 conf games than i did. Thats like a common games tiebreaker. Tho i lucked out vs you, perhaps that was my only win against your div, coupled with a poor showing in my own weaker division, whereas you ran the table bar me in that weaker division and won a couple games in your own tougher div. So you deserve the wc spot over me despite that one lucky/unlucky h2h game. it works in that scenario.

It may not replicate the NFL, but it has worked well past to present in putting the better teams as div winners and wild card teams.

In a weak division, three teams say 6-8, (is that weak or strong?) means they likely equally split up div games, 3-3. In a strong division, three teams say 10-4, 9-5, 8-6, each of those teams likely have also have 3 or 4 div wins, split games equally. Both divs still have that 3-11 type team at the bottom.

I dunno if div rec is that bad. Conf rec imo def still better ahead of h2h, and all-play/PR at the end helps completely separate any lingering ties is good at the end
 

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Kylo was here
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Also, those tiebreakers will first decide the standings for each division. So its imperative actually that Div record is used first to sort the West out, which may end up log-jammed at say 7-7 or 8-6. And often when a division is still log-jammed on div rec, that conf rec thus sorts out the final standings in each division.

So if there THEN ends up a team from South and a team from West tied for the last remaining WC. Maybe only then Conf rec then h2h becomes the first criteria for cross-div tie breakers. Conf rec is like common games, a bit more robust/fair than one h2h game.

Been plenty of past instances in empire where div record couldnt resolve cross div ties and had to go to conf or onto h2h. And cases when div rec did resolve it. A team 2-4 vs a team 4-2, the better team still got in.

Id have to look back at past years and assess the stats. Have there ever been any instances of a team ripped off not getting in? Or not? Never been a complaint before, seemed to have worked.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

Organising Trident's is my specialty
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Its all good. Cant change nothing during the season anyway, would have to be in the offseason.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

Organising Trident's is my specialty
Oct 18, 2013
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Also, those tiebreakers will first decide the standings for each division. So its imperative actually that Div record is used first to sort the West out, which may end up log-jammed at say 7-7 or 8-6. And often when a division is still log-jammed on div rec, that conf rec thus sorts out the final standings in each division.

So if there THEN ends up a team from South and a team from West tied for the last remaining WC. Maybe only then Conf rec then h2h becomes the first criteria for cross-div tie breakers. Conf rec is like common games, a bit more robust/fair than one h2h game.

Been plenty of past instances in empire where div record couldnt resolve cross div ties and had to go to conf or onto h2h. And cases when div rec did resolve it. A team 2-4 vs a team 4-2, the better team still got in.

Id have to look back at past years and assess the stats. Have there ever been any instances of a team ripped off not getting in? Or not? Never been a complaint before, seemed to have worked.

I don't think h2h being the first tie
breaker is bad, it actually makes far more sense, if a team has beaten someone in their division in both regular season games they deserve to be ranked ahead of them regardless of the overall division record. Division record being the second tiebreaker to sort out 1-1 all ties on the season makes sense.

This way it helps the deserving teams make the playoffs regardless of how strong or weak a division is. If you win games vs opponents with the same record as you you deserve to be in. Simple.
 

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Kylo was here
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I don't think h2h being the first tie
breaker is bad, it actually makes far more sense, if a team has beaten someone in their division in both regular season games they deserve to be ranked ahead of them regardless of the overall division record. Division record being the second tiebreaker to sort out 1-1 all ties on the season makes sense.

This way it helps the deserving teams make the playoffs regardless of how strong or weak a division is. If you win games vs opponents with the same record as you you deserve to be in. Simple.
There are situations that benefit one or the other method for sure.

I reckon the best idea is as i said before ...sort all standings within a division by div record first then conf rec then h2h etc. But when it comes to wild cards for cross-div rivals, start with conf rec then h2h etc.

Again, there would only ever be one h2h match between cross-div teams to determine playoffs....that person couldve had multiple byes that week or injuries early in those games etc and not a true representation of the better team. But conf record (common games essentially) paints a broader picture.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

Organising Trident's is my specialty
Oct 18, 2013
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that person couldve had multiple byes that week or injuries early in those games etc and not a true representation of the better team. But conf record (common games essentially) paints a broader picture.

Yes, but other people might be in a weaker division so they get an advantage that way, getting to play weaker sides twice while others only do it once
 

GG.exe

Kylo was here
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Yes, but other people might be in a weaker division so they get an advantage that way, getting to play weaker sides twice while others only do it once
No matter what rules you have in place....draft order standings, wild card tie breakers, etc etc, there is never going to be a perfect system. There are always issues. Even teams in a weak div winning the div with a sub-500 record happen (like this year)
 

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