List Mgmt. 2022 GWS GIANTS List Management (Trade/ Free Agency/ Draft/ Academy)

Remove this Banner Ad

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
9,232
12,890
AFL Club
GWS
Just a general draft comment. If you like the intrigue and excitement of draft night, then this year will likely hold a lot of interest. With the (sort of) agreed top 5 (Ashcroft, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Cadman, Tsatas) - although I'm not convinced that they'll be the first 5 picks exactly - then another group of 'the next few' (Phillipou, Humphrey, Clark, Busslinger, Mackenzie) and some possible bolters (Ginbey, Allan), there's definitely room for some surprises, bolters and sliders ... and hence maybe some on-the-night trades to take advantage.

Twomey's mock draft, which I think will come out next weekend, will be illuminating as he often gets the late mail of who's going where. Last year 9 out of the top 10 correct IIRC.

The late top 10 and early teens will help shape our teens picks ... alongside who we're actually targeting.
 

Andre the Giant

Premium Platinum
Feb 20, 2012
6,378
8,660
Melbourne, VIC
AFL Club
GWS

It never ceases to amaze me how well put together these young lads are. This young fella has been through a lot but he presents so well. When I was his age I couldn’t make toast! We won’t get him but he is one of my favourites from the vision, hope he has a great career.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

PMBangers

@Headless approved!
Nov 7, 2017
25,608
48,332
Melbourne
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Manchester City, Collingwood AFLW
Northern Academy nominations

GWS:
Harry Rowston, Nick Madden, Luke Lawrence

Supposedly.
Lawrence didn't get a combine invite so we wouldn't be able to nominate him, probably just trawled this thread to see where the interest lays tbh
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
9,232
12,890
AFL Club
GWS
Lawrence didn't get a combine invite so we wouldn't be able to nominate him, probably just trawled this thread to see where the interest lays tbh
I'm not convinced the story is correct (hence my use of "supposedly"), but is that actually a rule, that someone needs to have been invited to a combine to actually nominate them?
 

Andre the Giant

Premium Platinum
Feb 20, 2012
6,378
8,660
Melbourne, VIC
AFL Club
GWS
Question is if we entertained trading it for a future from Melbourne would we be better off asking for their own future first or the one they got from Freo?

Either way it should be a couple of picks better and in the very hyped 23’ draft.

If that deal is there I’m probably doing it.
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
49,464
73,933
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
I'm not convinced the story is correct (hence my use of "supposedly"), but is that actually a rule, that someone needs to have been invited to a combine to actually nominate them?
It's not true. There's been a number of selections that only went to state screenings. Sandy Brock (GC) got nominated as an academy selection despite not attending the 2021 draft combine - 2021 AFL Draft Combine Player List for instance. In general all half decent academy guys get multiple clubs picking them for the combine just to keep an eye on them and figure out where to bid, so it's pretty academic.
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
9,232
12,890
AFL Club
GWS
Question is if we entertained trading it for a future from Melbourne would we be better off asking for their own future first or the one they got from Freo?

Either way it should be a couple of picks better and in the very hyped 23’ draft.

If that deal is there I’m probably doing it.
Which team do you judge will finish lower down the ladder next year?

BTW, Phil Davis was on the draft list, so we clearly did delist him, even though it wasn't announced (anywhere that I saw, at least).
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
9,232
12,890
AFL Club
GWS
You'd have to figure trading #19 for Melbourne or Freo's F1R pick achieves what we were most likely aiming for. Of course, we'd like to trade with a team that would get us as low a likely future pick as possible, but many teams in that position won't be satisfied with doing so for just #19 (that's likely to be #21 when used). Melbourne having two future first round picks, and their previous tendency to trade future picks, makes them much more likely to do this trade than many other teams.

I'd bet on Freo falling back a little, rather than Melbourne.

The effective outcome of the Taranto/Hopper trades then would be three mid-teens + #31. And we'd have 3 first round picks in a bumper draft next year.

I guess it leaves us taking a risk that Harry Rowston gets bid before pick #31 ... or we just accept making a late selection instead for our 5th selection if that happens. I am reasonably happy that there would likely be a couple of decent options there.
 

Andre the Giant

Premium Platinum
Feb 20, 2012
6,378
8,660
Melbourne, VIC
AFL Club
GWS
Which team do you judge will finish lower down the ladder next year?

BTW, Phil Davis was on the draft list, so we clearly did delist him, even though it wasn't announced (anywhere that I saw, at least).
Very hard call as both teams look great but if pushed I’d say we are better to take the Freo pick purely as they haven’t yet done it but Melbourne have. Happy to trade it though!
 

PMBangers

@Headless approved!
Nov 7, 2017
25,608
48,332
Melbourne
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Manchester City, Collingwood AFLW
It's not true. There's been a number of selections that only went to state screenings. Sandy Brock (GC) got nominated as an academy selection despite not attending the 2021 draft combine - 2021 AFL Draft Combine Player List for instance. In general all half decent academy guys get multiple clubs picking them for the combine just to keep an eye on them and figure out where to bid, so it's pretty academic.
State combines count as a combine for this, probably should've used "any" rather than "a" for clarity.

As for Brock, not sure the Suns predicting should be used as an example, pretty sure they were just straight up allowed to list anyone linked to them
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
49,464
73,933
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
State combines count as a combine for this, probably should've used "any" rather than "a" for clarity.

As for Brock, not sure the Suns predicting should be used as an example, pretty sure they were just straight up allowed to list anyone linked to them
I'm sceptical mainly because there's absolutely nothing in the AFL's rules about this.

14.4 Listing of Club Academy Player
(a) Players Eligible
Subject to Rule 14.4(d), a Club may include a Club Academy Player on its
Primary List or Rookie List if he has been domiciled in the Club’s Academy
Region for a period of 5 continuous years immediately prior to attaining draft
eligibility age, unless otherwise approved by the AFL.
(b) No Prior Registration
A person cannot be included on a Club’s Primary List or Rookie List under Rule
14.4(a) if he has at any time been registered with the AFL as a Player with any
Club.
(c) Requirements for Inclusion on List
Subject to Rule 14.4(d), a Club wanting to include a Player on its Primary List or
Rookie List under this Rule 14.4 must submit to the AFL a duly completed
application in the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 39A on or prior to such
time as determined by the AFL.
(d) Club Academy Player Draft Selection
A Club may include a Player on its Primary List under this Rule 14 by selecting
the Player at the National Draft Selection Meeting in accordance with the
Determination for the National Draft Bidding System.
(e) Club Academy Player Rookie Pre-Selection
(i) Subject to Rule 14.4(e)(ii), where a Club Academy Player has been
nominated in accordance with Rule 14.4(c) and is not selected at a
National Draft or Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting, the Club with
whom he is eligible as a Club Academy Player may include him on its
Rookie List prior to the Rookie Draft Selection Meeting in accordance with
Rule 10.4.
(ii) By the date nominated by the AFL prior to the Pre-Season Draft Selection
Meeting, the Club must provide to the AFL written evidence of the Club’s
intention to list a Player under Rule 14.4(e)(i) if he is not selected by any
Club at the Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting using the form prescribed
in Schedule 1 as Form 34A.

There's an NGA rule explicitly covering the combine:

(f) Attendance at AFL and State Combines
Unless otherwise permitted by AFL, each Qualified NGA Player must attend
Player screening/testing as directed by the AFL (including the AFL Combine).

I wonder if people are confusing the two.
 

Hendo_21

Club Legend
Aug 14, 2021
1,407
1,765
AFL Club
GWS
You'd have to figure trading #19 for Melbourne or Freo's F1R pick achieves what we were most likely aiming for. Of course, we'd like to trade with a team that would get us as low a likely future pick as possible, but many teams in that position won't be satisfied with doing so for just #19 (that's likely to be #21 when used). Melbourne having two future first round picks, and their previous tendency to trade future picks, makes them much more likely to do this trade than many other teams.

I'd bet on Freo falling back a little, rather than Melbourne.

The effective outcome of the Taranto/Hopper trades then would be three mid-teens + #31. And we'd have 3 first round picks in a bumper draft next year.

I guess it leaves us taking a risk that Harry Rowston gets bid before pick #31 ... or we just accept making a late selection instead for our 5th selection if that happens. I am reasonably happy that there would likely be a couple of decent options there.
I'd probably bank on Freo as well, losing Lobb and no one really in the wings to replace him unless they're banking on a Amiss breakout which is difficult to expect for him to be able to lead a forward line in Year 2. Plenty of young talent there but just think with how competitive that middle tier is going to be they might only have to be a little bit worse and could drop out of the 8. Think by the time draft night rolls around we'll have a choice of packages for 19 with different F1 and pick combinations in there which is a luxury when multiple teams are going to be making a move for that pick
 
Last edited:

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
9,232
12,890
AFL Club
GWS

Hotton expects he will start as a forward at AFL level, with the hope he could gain midfield minutes over a number of years and develop into that dual position player at the elite level. A clean player both at ground level and in the air, Hotton also describes his strengths as his powerful burst from stoppages, and his willingness to take the ball forward and be “pretty damaging”. The hard working midfielder is not without his improvements though, citing his endurance as a key focus for him to work on over the off-season.

I have warmed to Hotton as an option for GWS. I think he is still a bit raw - hasn't really locked down either a forward spot or a mid spot, and some aspects of his game (IMHO) in both roles that he needs to work on. But he's got a good burst of speed, good leap, seems a reasonable field kick, and can find the goals. Initially I was most concerned that he's a potential go-home risk, given his dad played for both Pies & Blues and a Vic Metro background. But I now wonder, with his Sandy Dragons coach on board as GWS VFL coach, and if we opted to draft Charlie Clarke too (although I don't know how close the two are, plus Finn Callaghan from last year is a former Sandy Dragon) whether we could rely on some junior team bonds to hold him.

I still like Olver Hollands, with his endurance an attractive attribute, but he's not so explosive from contests. Hotton doesn't have the endurance, so would have to work on that, but does have the raw speed and some explosiveness from contests. He's likely to spend a lot of time in VFL, so can build his game in the midfield there, but at first grade is likely to start as a high half forward.

The Australian profile:

Age: 06/09/04
Weight: 80kg
Height: 182cm

Club: Vic Metro/Sandringham Dragons/Hampton Rovers/Haileybury

2022 National Champs
85 ranking points, 16.8 disposals, 2 inside-50s, 2.5 marks, 1.5 goals, 5.8 score involvements, 2 tackles (four games)

2022 NAB League
84 ranking points, 17.4 disposals, 3 inside-50s, 3.5 marks, 0.6 goals, 5.3 score involvements, 1.6 tackles (eight games)

A lively small forward, Hotton has great footy smarts and has emerged from nowhere to sit as a top draft prospect after a national championships campaign which left recruiters scribbling down plenty of notes next to his name. Hotton did not start the NAB League season on fire for Sandringham Dragons by any stretch, but showed enough glimpses of his potential to earn an opportunity with Vic Metro. Against South Australia in Vic Metro’s third match of the national championships, he finished with 24 disposals, 3.2 and one score assist in an eye-catching outing. Hotton is clean around stoppages, is a good mark above his head, is a dangerous around goals and is seriously quick. He was among Sandringham's better players in the Dragons' winning NAB League Grand Final in September, logging 25 disposals, seven clearances and a goal playing through the midfield. Hotton went on to be named on the bench in the the Under-18 Boys All-Australian Team. During pre-season testing of all NAB League players in March, he ranked sixth in the 20m sprint with a time of 2.89sec. Hotton is the son of former Collingwood and Carlton forward Trent Hotton, who played 78 AFL games in the 1990s and early 2000s.

He ran 2.924 sec in the actual draft combine, but more importantly, you can see he uses his speed to good effect in games.

If we do look to trade #19, getting Freo's 2023 first rounder off Melbourne would seem a pretty good outcome. It would leave us with #1, 15, 18 for which I could see Cadman, Hollands or Hotton & Clarke as hitting our needs, while matching for Rowston, and then one other - how that plays out depends on what we do with #31.

Here's Charlie Clarke's equivalent profile from The Australian:

Age: 04/01/04
Weight: 80kg
Height: 182cm

Club: Vic Metro/Sandringham Dragons/Port Melbourne Colts FC

2022 National Champs 62 ranking points, 11.3 disposals, 1.8 inside-50s, 3.5 marks, 1.5 goals, 4 score involvements, 1.8 tackles (four games)

2022 NAB League
103 ranking points, 18.6 disposals, 4.1 inside-50s, 3.5 marks, 1.9 goals, 7.9 score involvements, 3.4 tackles (15 games)

A medium forward, Clarke shot to prominence in the NAB League with the Sandringham Dragons when he kicked seven goals against the Tasmania Devils in Round 4. He also logged 23 disposals in a best-on-ground performance that day, catching the eyes of recruiters and Vic Metro squad selectors. Clarke only joined the Dragons in the middle of last year, after playing some good senior football for Port Melbourne Colts in the Southern Football League as a 17-year-old. An apprentice carpenter by day, Clarke is defensively-minded and the energy he brings around the ball is already considered to be at a VFL or AFL level. He is an elite runner, has good speed and knows how to find space. Clarke kicked two goals from 12 disposals in Vic Metro’s first match of the under-18 national championships against the Allies and finished the tournament having played all four games. He was a premiership player with Sandringham in the NAB League and kicked one goal from eight disposals in the Grand Final, while Clarke was also named on the interchange bench in the NAB League Boys Team of the Year.

I'm probably tending more towards Clarke than Jacob Konstanty at the moment. Partly because he's talked well in regards his meetings with GWS, and partly because IMHO he has a better balance between offence (goal kicking) and defence (tackling, pressure) than Konstanty, who to me seems set in the Daniels' mould.
 

GWS Goose

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2011
11,758
20,146
Blue Mountains
AFL Club
GWS
Assuming Jefferson was available at 15, would we consider him
Give our self 2 potential KPF given the fact that it is a low hit rate with the talls.

I think we should at least consider it, wonder if the club will.
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
9,232
12,890
AFL Club
GWS
Assuming Jefferson was available at 15, would we consider him
Give our self 2 potential KPF given the fact that it is a low hit rate with the talls.

I think we should at least consider it, wonder if the club will.
Good question.

Having delisted both Brander and Sproule, and if HH plays as a KPD, we would be arguably short of KPFs. Hogan, Riccardi, Derksen & Cadman (presumably) is a fairly short list.

However, if you throw one of the rucks forward, HH forward, and even Buckley forward (which was his role when we recruited him, and where he actually started his breakout season!) it's not so bad.

I'm just not sold on Jefferson as a player, and I think a running midfielder might be a higher priority. It would also make for a lot of developing talls simultaneously. However, if we didn't trade out #19, and he was available at #15 ... thinking strategically / long term you could see why we might be tempted.
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
9,232
12,890
AFL Club
GWS
From the list of "AFL Players nominated for the draft", not only is Phil Davis there, but Will Shaw too. So, clearly we've cut him too, without making any public announcement. I assume we could pick him up again as a Cat B rookie - or is he disqualified now for having been on a list?

Re-asking an earlier question I had, dlanod, having seen a conversation on the Lions board, is it your view that NSW Zone Selections are still allowed? So any player nominated for the draft who's seen as a "NSW resident", we could select as Cat B? Which was essentially the case for Will Shaw a couple of years back.

So even if we didn't nominate Luke Lawrence, for example, as a GWS Academy kid for ND selection, we could still make him a Cat B rookie courtesy of Zone Selection rules (if not otherwise selected)?

And similarly, if Swans didn't select Will Edwards, we could Zone Select him?

And what about Jason Gilbee? His club was listed as Bendigo, but he played for NSW in the U18 Championships (presumably his home address when not at school is still NSW)? If he went undrafted, he'd be a great option to pick up Cat B - if within the rules!

See the list of former AFL players who have nominated for the draft below

Jake Aarts (Richmond)
Jed Anderson (North Melbourne)
James Bell (Sydney)
Connor Blakely (Fremantle)
Callum Brown (Collingwood)
Tyler Brown (Collingwood)
Louis Butler (Western Bulldogs)
Riley Collier-Dawkins (Richmond)
Mitch Crowden (Fremantle)
Ed Curnow (Carlton)
Ben Davis (Adelaide)
Phil Davis (GWS)
Connor Downie (Hawthorn)
Josh Eyre (Essendon)
Brayden Ham (Essendon)
Daniel Howe (Hawthorn)
Darragh Joyce (St Kilda)
Jarrod Lienert (St Kilda)
Jack Madgen (Collingwood)
Oleg Markov (Gold Coast)
Sam Mayes (Port Adelaide)
Cian McBride (Essendon)
Connor McFadyen (Brisbane)
Jez McLennan (Gold Coast)
Liam McMahon (Collingwood)
Andrew McPherson (Adelaide)
Seamus Mitchell (Hawthorn)
Cooper Murley (Collingwood)
Patrick Naish (West Coast)
Sam Naismith (Sydney)
Quinton Narkle (Geelong)
Tom Phillips (Hawthorn)
Jared Polec (North Melbourne)
Caleb Poulter (Collingwood)
Ben Ronke (Sydney)
Fraser Rosman (Melbourne)
James Rowe (Adelaide)
Jack Saunders (Hawthorn)
Taj Schofield (Port Adelaide)
Paul Seedsman (Adelaide)
Will Shaw (GWS)
Sydney Stack (Richmond)
Jake Stein (GWS)
Nicholas Stevens (Geelong)
Liam Stocker (Carlton)
Luke Strnadica (West Coast)
Zane Trew (West Coast)
Brett Turner (Adelaide)
Josh Walker (North Melbourne)
Mitch Wallis (Western Bulldogs)
Alex Waterman (Essendon)
Joel Western (Fremantle)
Dylan Williams (Port Adelaide)
Tom Wilson (Collingwood)
Isiah Winder (West Coast)
Tom Williamson (Carlton)

 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
49,464
73,933
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
Re-asking an earlier question I had, @dlanod, having seen a conversation on the Lions board, is it your view that NSW Zone Selections are still allowed? So any player nominated for the draft who's seen as a "NSW resident", we could select as Cat B? Which was essentially the case for Will Shaw a couple of years back.
Yes. Wikipedia and a few other sources had Shaw as an academy selection, but I've since realised he was actually a zone selection and he was definitely Cat B.

So even if we didn't nominate Luke Lawrence, for example, as a GWS Academy kid for ND selection, we could still make him a Cat B rookie courtesy of Zone Selection rules (if not otherwise selected)?
You can nominate academy kids as rookie selections, i.e. if they get through the ND you get automatic prelisting of them if you choose. This takes precedence over zone selections. That would be the more likely move for one of our academy boys.
And similarly, if Swans didn't select Will Edwards, we could Zone Select him?
Yes.
And what about Jason Gilbee? His club was listed as Bendigo, but he played for NSW in the U18 Championships (presumably his home address when not at school is still NSW)? If he went undrafted, he'd be a great option to pick up Cat B - if within the rules!
Yes, as long as he meets the requirements (three years residency).
 

Maximus 2011

Team Captain
Oct 4, 2019
509
713
AFL Club
GWS
Assuming Jefferson was available at 15, would we consider him
Give our self 2 potential KPF given the fact that it is a low hit rate with the talls.

I think we should at least consider it, wonder if the club will.
I 100% would go for Jefferson. Think about Hawthorn when they had their rebuild they drafted Buddy and Roughead in the same year did they not? I love the thought of going after Premium forwards. Maybe having 2 Victorians they will keep each other at the club?
 

Hendo_21

Club Legend
Aug 14, 2021
1,407
1,765
AFL Club
GWS
I 100% would go for Jefferson. Think about Hawthorn when they had their rebuild they drafted Buddy and Roughead in the same year did they not? I love the thought of going after Premium forwards. Maybe having 2 Victorians they will keep each other at the club?
I'd still be pretty keen on a guy like Keeler if he slips through to 30, his range seems to be about mid-late 20s so we might need a bit of luck but he's really naturally gifted and would rather go Keeler at 30 + Konstanty rather then Jefferson plus whoever at 30. You'd have to tick both off on their willingness to come to GWS but Keeler is really exciting to me, such a gifted athlete.
 

Hendo_21

Club Legend
Aug 14, 2021
1,407
1,765
AFL Club
GWS

Someone we've spoken too, seems like he played most of the year as a midfielder but might be a small forward at the next level PMBangers? Pretty cool story as a mature ager someone you'd hope is able to contribute right away if that's something we're looking for. Could be an option for us at 30 maybe, hopefully Rowston gets through.

Accidently posted in wrong thread.
 

sydney_gws

Club Legend
Oct 31, 2016
1,137
767
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
qpr
Espn has sydney bidding on rowston at 17, this affects pick 18, if we trade it out 19.
Surely sydney don't do that to us. I feel it is a low blow, given how many more players they have from their academy than we do. If thsts the case, should we suggest redrawing the academy boundaries as they have the advantage of suburbs with a demographic more likely to play AFL than we do. I think they wouldn't want to do that.
 

Remove this Banner Ad