List Mgmt. 2022 GWS GIANTS List Management (Trade/ Free Agency/ Draft/ Academy)

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GWS Goose

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Herald suns latest phantom has us with the following:
Cadman, Hewett, Charlie Clarke, Lewis Hayes


Seems a few places are linking us to Hewett and might be the case that his talent is too hard to ignore even with some question marks on him with go home factor and off field stuff.
I'd be pretty happy with that.
Not sure we need Hayes, but if the club thinks another back will help, so be it
 

Andre the Giant

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This is incorrect anyway and 'total numbers' isn't even relevant.
Sydney should not have an Academy, they are an old established club and also has Father Son eligible talent.

NSW should have an Academy to develop talent but none of that talent nor Father Sons should interrupt the 1st round of the draft.

The system is way too compromised. If anything let the two Sydney teams have dibs on NSW talent from round 2 onwards and work out a fair way to divy up players based on ladder position.
 

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sydney_gws

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Sydney should not have an Academy, they are an old established club and also has Father Son eligible talent.

NSW should have an Academy to develop talent but none of that talent nor Father Sons should interrupt the 1st round of the draft.

The system is way too compromised. If anything let the two Sydney teams have dibs on NSW talent from round 2 onwards and work out a fair way to divy up players based on ladder position.
I think given you can trade down multiple times to increase points, discounts have to go/ be reduced to 5%.
E.g you can trade 18 for say 26,27. Then trade 26 for 35,37, 27 for 36,38.
Turn 18 into 35,36,37 38 which is about 1200 points into 2800.
That's close to what Brisbane did this year.

The solution( well not solution, but an improvement), only allow 3 picks to match a bid.
I guess if us and swans agreed to not be able to match first round bids, other clubs would agree to dissolve NGA.
But I think academies stay, Brisbane and especially Gold Coast need them too.
 

Andre the Giant

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I think given you can trade down multiple times to increase points, discounts have to go/ be reduced to 5%.
E.g you can trade 18 for say 26,27. Then trade 26 for 35,37, 27 for 36,38.
Turn 18 into 35,36,37 38 which is about 1200 points into 2800.
That's close to what Brisbane did this year.

The solution( well not solution, but an improvement), only allow 3 picks to match a bid.
I guess if us and swans agreed to not be able to match first round bids, other clubs would agree to dissolve NGA.
But I think academies stay, Brisbane and especially Gold Coast need them too.
It definitely requires some thinking. That players like Ugle Hagan, Daicos, Ashcroft, Darcy, Heeney, Mills, Green etc were essentially unavailable to open pool is a disgrace for a sport purporting to have a talent equalisation system.

I get all the Father Son rah rah rah colloquial BS spun mostly by big Victorian clubs about how wonderful it is even though no other professional sport in the world thinks it’s cute or necessary.

It’s funny that the players/teams here wanted the commercial benefits of a national competition and free agency but cut out all the mature parts like 4 year rookie deals, teams able to cut players at any time and maintain the Father Son/Academy rort BS.

Our juniors are spoilt and immature and our industry acts like babies.

Let individuals have the opportunity to make their own legacy, if they go to dads team fine but it shouldn’t be a red carpet lay down misere.

Academies are the same, keep them to develop talent and give some smaller rewards to the minnows to help them Bridge the gap but behemoths like the Swans don’t need any leg ups.

If the NSW sides are fair dinkum about development and not just rorting then let them work together to develop the game and let benefits exist from round 2 and beyond.

Round 1 of the draft needs to be clean and uncompromised.
 
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GWS Goose

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Giant Strides

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I hope we don't trade 18,19 for 14. Time will tell if we get involved.
I agree. Luckily, I think Swans are after 2023 first round picks, rather than more picks this year. Melbourne might take that - the impact could be that they're then not in a position to trade for our #19.
 

captainMyCaptain

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SUNDAY'S LINE-UP (all times AEDT)​

6.45pm: Kinnear Beatson (Sydney national recruiting manager)
7pm:
Brad Scott (Essendon senior coach)
7.30pm:
Adrian Caruso (GWS national recruiting manager)
 

captainMyCaptain

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Not a fan of the phantom from Fox mainly because it has us matching a 1st rd bid on Rowston. Anyway it has us taking Cadman, Brayden George, then matching a first round bid on Rowston from the pies.


In the mix:The Giants love Ed Allan, but it’s hard to see him still being on the board. The sense is the Giants would be prepared to take a punt on George considering the array of picks they have in the teens. But they’ve also been linked to several smaller types in the middle of the first round, including Gippsland Power’s Jacob Konstanty, Sandringham Dragons’ Charlie Clarke and Swan Districts’ Darcy Jones, with Clarke considered the most likely to be taken of that trio. They could also look at gun WA midfielder Elijah Hewett, who hasn’t been invited to attend the first night of the draft at Marvel Stadium but remains in the first-round mix. There’s also the possibility of drafting a key defender, which would bring Josh Weddle, Lewis Hayes and even Max Gruzewski into the equation, while both Henry Hustwaite — a versatile midfielder that has the potential to become a third tall defender — and Olli Hotton probably enter draft calculations for the first time.
 

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Hendo_21

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Not a fan of the phantom from Fox mainly because it has us matching a 1st rd bid on Rowston. Anyway it has us taking Cadman, Brayden George, then matching a first round bid on Rowston from the pies.

Maybe a Cadman, George and Clarke combo and then flip 19 into something else? I just can't see Rowston going first round, the academy guys normally slide anyway and he's not even really a top 20 guy to begin with, idk hard to see it at this point.
 

JC100

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If Jefferson is available with our second pick we have to take him.

Cadman, Jefferson, Konstanty, trade out 19 and take rowston would be an unreal trade period.

We would be set for young key position players. Taylor, Aleer Briggs Cadman Jefferson would be a very solid spine for 10 years. Bonus with Jefferson would be ability to draw a crowd with his marking
 

captainMyCaptain

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The Giants traded for the No.1 pick as part of a four-club mega deal in October and were quickly tied to Greater Western Victoria Rebels key forward Aaron Cadman. The obvious hope is Cadman will eventually fill the club’s top need as a reliable target, to ease the load on Toby Greene and Jesse Hogan, especially with Harry Himmelberg moving down back. Rivals believe GWS won’t bid on Brisbane Lions father-son gun Will Ashcroft at the top of the order, but that will be confirmed on Monday night. They are believed to be keen on Josh Weddle, but the Swans will likely swoop on the defender first, leaving the Giants to grab one of the small forwards they are keen on. Brayden George, Jacob Konstanty and Charlie Clarke are the likeliest to go there. Ollie Hotton is another player who has been linked to GWS, while they have made no secret they are willing to trade one of their picks from 15 to 19. Cadman’s Rebels teammate Hugh Bond, a tough midfielder, could be in the mix at 31, assuming a bid doesn’t come before that for fellow on-baller Harry Rowston. Will Shaw is a chance to return as a category B rookie.
 

Hendo_21

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If Jefferson is available with our second pick we have to take him.

Cadman, Jefferson, Konstanty, trade out 19 and take rowston would be an unreal trade period.

We would be set for young key position players. Taylor, Aleer Briggs Cadman Jefferson would be a very solid spine for 10 years. Bonus with Jefferson would be ability to draw a crowd with his marking
Don't get good vibes from Jefferson, not sure why but just don't think he'll be good. This opinion isn't backed up by any real analysis at all just doesn't pass the vibes test.
 

Giant Strides

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From the SMH draft article:


GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY

Draft picks: 1, 15, 18, 19, 31, 57.

Contracted: 38 (one category B rookie).

List needs: Key forward, midfield depth.

The Giants traded for the No.1 pick as part of a four-club mega deal in October and were quickly tied to Greater Western Victoria Rebels key forward Aaron Cadman. The obvious hope is Cadman will eventually fill the club’s top need as a reliable target, to ease the load on Toby Greene and Jesse Hogan, especially with Harry Himmelberg moving down back. Rivals believe GWS won’t bid on Brisbane Lions father-son gun Will Ashcroft at the top of the order, but that will be confirmed on Monday night. They are believed to be keen on Josh Weddle, but the Swans will likely swoop on the defender first, leaving the Giants to grab one of the small forwards they are keen on. Brayden George, Jacob Konstanty and Charlie Clarke are the likeliest to go there. Ollie Hotton is another player who has been linked to GWS, while they have made no secret they are willing to trade one of their picks from 15 to 19. Cadman’s Rebels teammate Hugh Bond, a tough midfielder, could be in the mix at 31, assuming a bid doesn’t come before that for fellow on-baller Harry Rowston. Will Shaw is a chance to return as a category B rookie.
 

Giant Strides

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This is a decent analysis of the problems within the AFL and how the draft has been impacted by free agency. It doesn't offer any solutions, but at least doesn't just offer the platitudes that "minnow clubs have to pick well". But it least it cuts through the jingoistic nonsense that morons like Damien Barrett (who couldn't analyse his way out of a wet paper bag) spout that it's all the interstate/minnow clubs' fault.

A few choice excerpts:

But recent events – and the continuing trend of players choosing their clubs, irrespective of age or contracts – mean that the draft may not prove a panacea, even for those clubs purported to have brained ’em. The draft, while important, is no longer shaping the destinies of teams, in terms of winning games and finals, in the way that it did, or as intended when it was introduced, alongside the salary cap, in 1986. It is important, but less influential than a decade ago.

“The draft is almost irrelevant to the top four or so clubs,” says Gold Coast chief executive and ex-Hawthorn and AFL football boss Mark Evans. He notes that the draft has been weakened, as an equalisation measure, “given the increase in player movement and players wanting to play at clubs in premiership contention”.

Senior club figures and list managers note that players these days are more willing to leave, as Horne-Francis and Henry did; that the best players pick the good teams higher on the ladder (see Tom Lynch and Jeremy Cameron), that they nearly always get their wish; and the club that loses the player usually cops whatever “collateral” is available. In theory, the team losing the player should get a fair price. In practice, as Campbell observes, the return “doesn’t necessarily correlate to the value of the player”.

The player-movement culture shifted dramatically when free agency was introduced in 2012. It is revealing that most premiership teams have utilised free agency or trades to a significant degree (the 2016 Bulldogs an exception).

This leads to another important shift that has undermined the draft’s mission of comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable: That the better teams can pay players less than the weaker ones. Lynch and Cameron accepted pay cuts to cross from expansion teams to Richmond and Geelong. Lynch accepted $400,000 a season less at Richmond than he might have received at North. At expansion teams, first-round picks who’ve done squat are handed $400,000-plus in their third year.

Once, clubs traded for show and drafted for dough. Today, the draft only gets you on to the fairway, or out of the sand trap.
 

Giant Strides

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GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY
Draft picks:
1, 15, 18, 19, 31, 57.

Contracted: 38 (one category B rookie).

Will Shaw is a chance to return as a category B rookie.
Anyone else pick up that those numbers are incorrect against what we know (or at least, are aware of)?

We traded 4, delisted 1 and 1 retired from the main list; then got Toby Bedford and delisted Phil Davis (as evidenced by him nominating for the draft), so our main list number should be 30. We delisted 2 from our Rookie A list, so we have 5 there (Davis hasn't yet come back on). And from the Cat B Rookie list, we delisted Shaw but have Callum Brown there (to be upgraded to main list). So that should be 36 including a Cat B rookie, not 38.
 

GWS Goose

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Anyone else pick up that those numbers are incorrect against what we know (or at least, are aware of)?

We traded 4, delisted 1 and 1 retired from the main list; then got Toby Bedford and delisted Phil Davis (as evidenced by him nominating for the draft), so our main list number should be 30. We delisted 2 from our Rookie A list, so we have 5 there (Davis hasn't yet come back on). And from the Cat B Rookie list, we delisted Shaw but have Callum Brown there (to be upgraded to main list). So that should be 36 including a Cat B rookie, not 38.
Says contracted, wonder if that means Davis is in the 38 despite not currently being listed
 

Giant Strides

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Says contracted, wonder if that means Davis is in the 38 despite not currently being listed
Yes, of course. Which is essentially irrelevant for the purposes on the ND, but technically correct. Good pick-up.

However, I would still have that at 37 not 38. 31 + 5 + 1. Who's the 38th player they're counting?
 

JC100

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Don't get good vibes from Jefferson, not sure why but just don't think he'll be good. This opinion isn't backed up by any real analysis at all just doesn't pass the vibes test.
The vibe is all I have too and it’s more a case of the vibe of what his type could bring to the club rather than him specifically.
 

Hendo_21

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The vibe is all I have too and it’s more a case of the vibe of what his type could bring to the club rather than him specifically.
Some guys you have a good feeling about and some guys you have a bad feeling about and for whatever reason I get bad feelings from Jefferson. Get better vibes from someone like Keeler if we were thinking of taking a second KPF, helps that he's expected to be avaliable quite a bit later.
 

Hendo_21

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Thinking about Konstanty and I know Castanga has become a bit of a meme sort of joke player at this point to many but at his peak he was 25-30 goals a year while being one of if not the best pressure forward in the competition if we can get a bit better version of that from Konstanty I'd say that's a reallygood outcome. Maybe someone that can kick 35ish goals a year while being one of the leading pressure players i50 would be well worth the pick, how many small forwards out there are both dynamic offensive players while also providing high quality defensive pressure.
 

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