List Mgmt. 2022 GWS GIANTS List Management (Trade/ Free Agency/ Draft/ Academy)

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Danny88

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The kennedy debate is an interesting one. We don't really have established players that play the wing role. Yes we have LW and Chook but they are regularly in other positions now days. There are younger bodies that have potential but haven't proved they are capable for prolonged periods of time.

I suppose im saying i think Kennedy is safe in my opinion because when fit he regularly playes in what is increasingly a specialist position and we don't have established talent to push him out. Now that might happen this year with Ash, OX and Finn possibly pushing for a wing spot but I still feel he has a lot of value to add.
 

Battlepants

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He was ok against Geelong. Will be interesting. He came back day 1 of preseason so he is fired up and determined.

I'm actually pretty hopeful in regards to Davis. He's obviously been dealing with getting his body right for a while now, but he looked good against Geelong and I think with a solid preseason he could have a pretty good year. There's definitely a spot down back if he does, especially with Buckley out for a while.
 

Ichabod Noodle

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Kenners depends on his injuries… and his downfall is his kicking. You can’t play on a wing if you can’t kick. Love his effort though.

2021 Disposal Efficiency - 84%
2020 - 76%
2019 - 78%
2018 - 83%
2017 - 81%
2016 - 77%
2015 - 84%

pretty consistent
pretty consistently good
pretty consistently better than others

compare that to our two other wingers
Whitfield 74, 75, 73, 79, 78, 76, 71
Kelly 70, 70, 70, 69, 74, 72, 70

or Haynes coming out of defence (Kenner’s other role)
76, 74, 77, 74, 79, 80, 78
 
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Giant Pete

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I'm actually pretty hopeful in regards to Davis. He's obviously been dealing with getting his body right for a while now, but he looked good against Geelong and I think with a solid preseason he could have a pretty good year. There's definitely a spot down back if he does, especially with Buckley out for a while.
2021 Disposal Efficiency - 84%
2020 - 76%
2019 - 78%
2018 - 83%
2017 - 81%
2016 - 77%
2015 - 84%

pretty consistent
pretty consistently good
pretty consistently better than others

compare that to our two other wingers
Whitfield 74, 75, 73, 79, 78, 76, 71
Kelly 70, 70, 70, 69, 74, 72, 70

or Haynes coming out of defence (Kenner’s other role)
76, 74, 77, 74, 79, 80, 78
Cmon. You’re better than that. We shouldn’t be comparing the percentage of players who take very different types of kicks.
 

Ichabod Noodle

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Cmon. You’re better than that. We shouldn’t be comparing the percentage of players who take very different types of kicks.

Kenners gets the ball into the hands of his team mates more efficiently than most of his team mates.

your knock on him is his disposal.

his disposal is fine.
 

Hendo_21

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Kenners gets the ball into the hands of his team mates more efficiently than most of his team mates.

your knock on him is his disposal.

his disposal is fine.
You can't just use disposal efficency on its own, it's pretty clear that someone like Whitfield kicks the ball much more aggressively then kennedy both in terms of distance and the size of the window to fit it into. Kennedy taking on relatively easier kicks of course if going to make his percentage look good.
 

Ichabod Noodle

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You can't just use disposal efficency on its own, it's pretty clear that someone like Whitfield kicks the ball much more aggressively then kennedy both in terms of distance and the size of the window to fit it into. Kennedy taking on relatively easier kicks of course if going to make his percentage look good.

football is pretty basic.

a team needs to maintain possession of the ball in order to achieve what it needs to achieve.

Kenners helps that more than most.

the knock was on his supposed poor disposal - which is rubbish - his disposal is better than most. He helps the team maintain possession of the ball, which is pretty fundamental to success.

his problem appears to be that he doesn’t stand out in doing so, he just quietly goes about his business being solid, competitive and reliable.

which, btw, is what every team needs.
 

Hendo_21

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football is pretty basic.

a team needs to maintain possession of the ball in order to achieve what it needs to achieve.

Kenners helps that more than most.

the knock was on his supposed poor disposal - which is rubbish - his disposal is better than most. He helps the team maintain possession of the ball, which is pretty fundamental to success.

his problem appears to be that he doesn’t stand out in doing so, he just quietly goes about his business being solid, competitive and reliable.

which, btw, is what every team needs.
But he hasn't asked to do anything too difficult, a lot of players if put in Kennedy's spot would be able to have a similar disposal efficency to him because the kicking he's asked to do, relative to other players in the team isn't that difficult. He's not one of the guys that takes kick ins for us or a primary user for us to set up counter attacks out of the back half nor is he someone that uses the corridor aggressively like Whitfield or Cumming or some of the other half back/wings. Kennedy is a fine player I don't think anyone's arguing that but a at 30 years old, out of contract and with younger guys coming through in that position it's a pretty good time to let him maybe explore options elsewhere, if wants to come back I wouldn't have an issue with that but his time as a best 22 player are hopefully over.
 

Danny88

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But he hasn't asked to do anything too difficult, a lot of players if put in Kennedy's spot would be able to have a similar disposal efficency to him because the kicking he's asked to do, relative to other players in the team isn't that difficult. He's not one of the guys that takes kick ins for us or a primary user for us to set up counter attacks out of the back half nor is he someone that uses the corridor aggressively like Whitfield or Cumming or some of the other half back/wings. Kennedy is a fine player I don't think anyone's arguing that but a at 30 years old, out of contract and with younger guys coming through in that position it's a pretty good time to let him maybe explore options elsewhere, if wants to come back I wouldn't have an issue with that but his time as a best 22 player are hopefully over.
Apart from your own observations... is there any way you can varify that kennedy takes the easy options? Because if you are a wing... you are often in similar positions to your compatriots
 

Hendo_21

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Apart from your own observations... is there any way you can varify that kennedy takes the easy options? Because if you are a wing... you are often in similar positions to your compatriots
If you compare Whitfield and Kennedys stats, Whitfield averages over 200m more metre's gained per game, roughly 1.5 more score involvments, a higher kick to hand ball ratio, 2 more rebound 50s per game, more inside 50s. Kennedys only real edge is in efficency and clanger's. That tells you that Kennedy is quite conservative with the ball (that has it's benefits at times) and isn't really testing defence's with his ball use more so just taking whats on offer to him.
Whitfield gives you 2 more clangers per game and a lower disposal efficency (-8%), but I'd be willing to trade those things off for a much more damaging player which Whitfield clearly is. Clangers can often be seen as a bad thing but it's often a sign of how aggressive someone is with the ball, many of the best players in the competition rack up clangers because of how aggressively they try to move the ball downfield and into tighter windows then others would attempt. While you obviously don't want more clangers I think in this case and in most cases it's a very worthy trade for a much more damaging player. Whitfield is going to make most players, playing his position look worse because he's that good but suggesting Kennedy is a better user of the ball and only citing disposal efficency is arguing in bad faith imo and not capturing all of what makes using the ball important. I think the eye test also backs up most of this data as well.
 
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Giant Pete

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football is pretty basic.

a team needs to maintain possession of the ball in order to achieve what it needs to achieve.

Kenners helps that more than most.

the knock was on his supposed poor disposal - which is rubbish - his disposal is better than most. He helps the team maintain possession of the ball, which is pretty fundamental to success.

his problem appears to be that he doesn’t stand out in doing so, he just quietly goes about his business being solid, competitive and reliable.

which, btw, is what every team needs.
In close games in the past, when his team needed him to hit a slightly harder target, he butchered it.
yes, he can hit short targets, but to beat the best teams you need players on the outside who can put them on the back foot. Surely you’ve seen Kenner’s kick an ‘up and under’ running on the wing?
 

Giant Pete

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If you compare Whitfield and Kennedys stats, Whitfield averages over 200m more metre's gained per game, roughly 1.5 more score involvments, a higher kick to hand ball ratio, 2 more rebound 50s per game, more inside 50s. Kennedys only real edge is in efficency and clanger's. That tells you that Kennedy is quite conservative with the ball (that has it's benefits at times) and isn't really testing defence's with his ball use more so just taking whats on offer to him.
Whitfield gives you 2 more clangers per game and a lower disposal efficency (-8%), but I'd be willing to trade those things off for a much more damaging player which Whitfield clearly is. Clangers can often be seen as a bad thing but it's often a sign of how aggressive someone is with the ball, many of the best players in the competition rack up clangers because of how aggressively they try to move the ball downfield and into tighter windows then others would attempt. While you obviously don't want more clangers I think in this case and in most cases it's a very worthy trade for a much more damaging player. Whitfield is going to make most players, playing his position look worse because he's that good but suggesting Kennedy is a better user of the ball and only citing disposal efficency is arguing in bad faith imo and not capturing all of what makes using the ball important. I think the eye test also backs up most of this data as well.
Spot on.
 

Danny88

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If you compare Whitfield and Kennedys stats, Whitfield averages over 200m more metre's gained per game, roughly 1.5 more score involvments, a higher kick to hand ball ratio, 2 more rebound 50s per game, more inside 50s. Kennedys only real edge is in efficency and clanger's. That tells you that Kennedy is quite conservative with the ball (that has it's benefits at times) and isn't really testing defence's with his ball use more so just taking whats on offer to him.
Whitfield gives you 2 more clangers per game and a lower disposal efficency (-8%), but I'd be willing to trade those things off for a much more damaging player which Whitfield clearly is. Clangers can often be seen as a bad thing but it's often a sign of how aggressive someone is with the ball, many of the best players in the competition rack up clangers because of how aggressively they try to move the ball downfield and into tighter windows then others would attempt. While you obviously don't want more clangers I think in this case and in most cases it's a very worthy trade for a much more damaging player. Whitfield is going to make most players, playing his position look worse because he's that good but suggesting Kennedy is a better user of the ball and only citing disposal efficency is arguing in bad faith imo and not capturing all of what makes using the ball important. I think the eye test also backs up most of this data as well.
great analysis

I totally agree the DE can be misleading and obviously LW is the better player

I just think your assessment of Kennedy is too harsh. He is still in his prime imo

injuries have been harsh to him but when fit he plays
 

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Hendo_21

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great analysis

I totally agree the DE can be misleading and obviously LW is the better player

I just think your assessment of Kennedy is too harsh. He is still in his prime imo

injuries have been harsh to him but when fit he plays

Yeah maybe this came off too harsh against Kennedy, I don’t mean to make it out like he’s a poor player because he’s not. He’s a solid player that plays his role well and there’s definitely value in that and I’m sure his veteran leadership is pretty important with most of that wing/halfback rotation generally leaning pretty young. Just more so that you know what you’re going to get with Kennedy and he’s not necessarily the type of guy to be able to change a game or have really dynamic stretches.
 

Giant Pete

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great analysis

I totally agree the DE can be misleading and obviously LW is the better player

I just think your assessment of Kennedy is too harsh. He is still in his prime imo

injuries have been harsh to him but when fit he plays
So he is up against Callaghan, Ash, XOH, Perryman and occasionally Whitfield and Kelly. Which of those does he ply in front of. If you think it’s XOH… have a look at some of his kicks going inside 50 in the back half of the season.
 

Danny88

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So he is up against Callaghan, Ash, XOH, Perryman and occasionally Whitfield and Kelly. Which of those does he ply in front of. If you think it’s XOH… have a look at some of his kicks going inside 50 in the back half of the season.
Well I would say a lot of those players have stints in the wing rather than are picked primarily in that role. Pez is largely on a wing but also has stints both forward and back too… ash has only recently moved there and XO plays a lot on the HFF too

I’m not sure it’s apples against apples is my point here
 

GWS Goose

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To the eye, Kennedy looks to have issues with the disposal, but stats always say otherwise.
I think a lot of that is exactly due to what Hendo_21 is saying.
 

Pres

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DE is a classic stat. Wasn't Sam Reid really high on this rating in 2020 despite being unable to consistently kick a drop punt?

You could tell by the end of the year Leon had drilled into him to do nothing other than hard tag or handball to a teammate close by.
 

Hendo_21

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DE is a classic stat. Wasn't Sam Reid really high on this rating in 2020 despite being unable to consistently kick a drop punt?

You could tell by the end of the year Leon had drilled into him to do nothing other than hard tag or handball to a teammate close by.
There are a lot of players that have a high DE because they don't execute very difficult kicks and are only asked to move the ball in the back half not so much vertically down the field where it becomes much more challenging.
 

Hendo_21

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Idk where to put this so I thought it sorta relates to free agency. Alright this might be a little bit crazy and completely wrong but based off Taranto's latest instagram post does it sort of look like he's just purchased a new house? I might be completely misreading and not interpreting it incorrectly but if he has that's got to make us feel pretty good about keeping him with his contract running out at the end of the year. Am I being an insane person?
 
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Giant Strides

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Idk where to put this so I thought it sorta relates to free agency. Alright this might be a little bit crazy and completely wrong but based off Taranto's latest instagram post does it sort of look like he's just purchased a new house? I might be completely misreading and not interpreting it incorrectly but if he has that's got to make us feel pretty good about keeping him with his contract running out at the end of the year. Am I being an insane person?
Is it in Sydney?
 

Hendo_21

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Is it in Sydney?
Considering it was posted today and pre-season has been on for a couple days I'd assume so unless for some reason he would've been sitting on this photo for a while but that seems very unlkely, but there was no location tag. Looks to be with his mate who I think lives in Sydney as well.
 

Taylor Moss

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Considering it was posted today and pre-season has been on for a couple days I'd assume so unless for some reason he would've been sitting on this photo for a while but that seems very unlkely, but there was no location tag. Looks to be with his mate who I think lives in Sydney as well.

Anyone that can afford to buy a property in Sydney absolutely should.

Doesn’t mean you have to live in it.
 

Hendo_21

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Anyone that can afford to buy a property in Sydney absolutely should.

Doesn’t mean you have to live in it.
Yeah I guess it could be an investment property as well but idk for some reason I just don't think it is, thats if I'm even right in the first place that he did actually buy a new place.
 

Taylor Moss

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Yeah I guess it could be an investment property as well but idk for some reason I just don't think it is, thats if I'm even right in the first place that he did actually buy a new place.
I’m too old for the gram so I’m not likely to ever see the post so I can’t comment.

But it is eerily similar to deluded Stain Kilda fans saying “JosH KElly BoUgHT a HOusE in ELwOod”
 

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