List Mgmt. 2022 GWS GIANTS List Management (Trade/ Free Agency/ Draft/ Academy)

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Andre the Giant

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2012
6,115
8,107
Melbourne, VIC
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GWS
There has been some discussion here about the ‘go home factor’ for Victorians, particularly those from Melbourne. Though they both play for Victorian Country from what I can tell Cadman hails from the Bacchus Marsh area and Konstanty from the Warragul area; both areas are semi-rural being on the fringe of the greater Melbourne Metropolitan expanse. But then again, Cameron came from the ‘far’ county and Greene is city boy.
We do always want to put them in a neat box but there are so many factors at play.

Drafting 18yo’s most of which have never been away from home or had to be responsible for anything is extremely difficult.

The ones that have girlfriends are challenging as they often get pressure to come home. Without being a bit racist kids from some ethnic backgrounds that have a very close family environment can be very hard to draft as they get pressure from everywhere.

Some kids initially like the idea of moving from home but as soon as they are actually in the new environment they don’t really know and when the going gets tough they want out.

Other kids don’t want the disruption or change initially but then when they move they enjoy the freedom. Some of them just need good team mates and need to feel welcome.

It’s really a bit of a lottery. I do struggle a bit to see how the interviews and testing missed Bruhn, he looked the unhappiest man in the universe when we drafted him and now looks a one a done escapee.

Hately was another bizarre selection, maybe they thought because he exhibited high character that he would fit in but he was the wrong player and the SA kids are typically the hardest to place.

We are so unbelievably disadvantaged by the draft system. We hardly get anyone from the Academies and when we do we pay for it whilst other clubs have home ground advantage plus father son.

This is why I am so pro Clarkson. For all we know Yze or Kingsley may be the next great coaches but they won’t prove that for at least 3-5 years.

If we have a coach with the cache of Clarkson we will not only retain kids that may be undecided but will also attract players from elsewhere. It’s something our club has never experienced before.

My mail is that he has a strong preference to stay in Melbourne but the North job is not super appealing as they are years away from being a contender. Maybe he sits out altogether but if there is any chance we should be getting him.

We should get some senior players to meet with him and show how much they want him.
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
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Harry Sheezel is firming up in my mind as the best fit for us with our first pick, albeit that he's not guaranteed to be available to us. He's not the quickest, or the best kick, or the longest kick ... but he's good at multiple skills while having (IMHO) probably close to the best footy IQ of the draft crop.

Whether he's available to us depends on a few factors: where Norths finish, whether they get a priority pick ahead of our pick, what Ashcroft does with his father/son eligibility, and lastly who Norths & Eagles actually select ahead of us. And then, there's the question of whether we'll pick him because of a perceived flight risk (which has been much discussed these last couple of pages in general terms). IMHO it would be hard to pass him up, and you'd like to trust our system can persuade him to stay; conversely, could we afford another kid leaving after just two years if there's someone more likely to stay longer?

Aaron Cadman is another who ticks a need for us; but Sheezel is such a good fit and there could be other options available if we were to get Richmond's pick in a Taranto trade if that were to happen (e.g. Matthew Jefferson). However, if Sheezel was gone by our pick or we were concerned at his flight risk, or we didn;t have a pick around 10 or so, then Cadman as a country Victorian looms as a fill for a long-term need. And there are other options later in the draft for a small forward, or high half forward role that could suit us: Jacob Konstanty for one, and I still like Charlie Clarke as another.
 

Brave New World

Senior List
Oct 31, 2009
170
101
AFL Club
GWS
We do always want to put them in a neat box but there are so many factors at play.

Drafting 18yo’s most of which have never been away from home or had to be responsible for anything is extremely difficult.

The ones that have girlfriends are challenging as they often get pressure to come home. Without being a bit racist kids from some ethnic backgrounds that have a very close family environment can be very hard to draft as they get pressure from everywhere.

Some kids initially like the idea of moving from home but as soon as they are actually in the new environment they don’t really know and when the going gets tough they want out.

Other kids don’t want the disruption or change initially but then when they move they enjoy the freedom. Some of them just need good team mates and need to feel welcome.

It’s really a bit of a lottery. I do struggle a bit to see how the interviews and testing missed Bruhn, he looked the unhappiest man in the universe when we drafted him and now looks a one a done escapee.

Hately was another bizarre selection, maybe they thought because he exhibited high character that he would fit in but he was the wrong player and the SA kids are typically the hardest to place.

We are so unbelievably disadvantaged by the draft system. We hardly get anyone from the Academies and when we do we pay for it whilst other clubs have home ground advantage plus father son.

This is why I am so pro Clarkson. For all we know Yze or Kingsley may be the next great coaches but they won’t prove that for at least 3-5 years.

If we have a coach with the cache of Clarkson we will not only retain kids that may be undecided but will also attract players from elsewhere. It’s something our club has never experienced before.

My mail is that he has a strong preference to stay in Melbourne but the North job is not super appealing as they are years away from being a contender. Maybe he sits out altogether but if there is any chance we should be getting him.

We should get some senior players to meet with him and show how much they want him.
Yes it is harder for Clubs such as the Giants, but then the Swans and Lions have been more successful than not and it is something (which I'm sure our recruiting staff know well enough!) has just got to be dealt with.

I don't post often but peruse almost everything; it is really enjoyable to read the different opinions and reasonings, all underpinned by the desire to see the Club succeed. Even when there is criticism it is of the constructive kind, especially compared to that posted in other forums. For a relatively young Club we have quality supporters and I'm certain a strong future.
 

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fridgeman

Club Legend
Jan 26, 2014
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Based on todays performance they can almost all be up for trade as the club is pretty much F#$%^d with the effort senior well paid players are putting in
 

Giant Pete

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 17, 2013
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It’s a combination of a terrible gamestyle with a terribly unbalanced list.
Clear out a few slower midfielders and change the gamestyle.
 

Giant Pete

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 17, 2013
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It’s going to be very interesting to see how deep we cut the list… if it was me after recent performances:
Davis
Ward
Deboer
Taranto
Hopper
Bruhn
Brown
Trade/delist/retire them all.
 
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Section226

Senior List
May 21, 2021
160
289
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GWS
This club is in serious trouble.

If it wasn't for Toby Greene and Sam Taylor today, the Swans would have easily got 150+.

Too many overpaid slackers have resulted in a dearth of talent that's going to take many, many years to fix because the salary cap is now so tight unless the club unloads some players. But who will want them considering the performances this year?

Catch 22.

Why would Clarkson want to coach this team the way it is?

I would be happy to be proven wrong, but we still have the same Board, CEO and List Manager who unless punted will exert the same influence and make the same stupid decisions.

There has to be a point where the AFL says enough is enough and stops throwing good $$$ after bad.

The soft cap decision re: Clarkson this week is the first warning shot.
 

Giant Pete

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 17, 2013
5,986
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It’s going to be very interesting to see how deep we cut the list… if it was me after recent performances:
Davis
Ward
Deboer
Taranto
Hopper
Bruhn
Brown
Trade/delist/retire them all.
We come out of this with a about 5 first round draft picks in next two years. Add in Callaghan who we have barely seen but looks great. Also I reckon Fahey is a weapon… just needs a bit of size.
Clarko will have 7 untouched youngsters to coach and lead us into new era.
Plus we will have freed up loads of cap space.
 

Scrapporet

Rookie
Apr 17, 2022
49
54
AFL Club
GWS
We come out of this with a about 5 first round draft picks in next two years. Add in Callaghan who we have barely seen but looks great. Also I reckon Fahey is a weapon… just needs a bit of size.
Clarko will have 7 untouched youngsters to coach and lead us into new era.
Plus we will have freed up loads of cap space.

Love to have that positivity but who is giving us first rounders? and what's the use if players do 2 years and bail. Callaghan appears ay best 50/50 to stay so I'm not seeing any positives.

Tough times ahead imo.
 

Andre the Giant

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2012
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Melbourne, VIC
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Yep, we're gonna get #3. Before F/S and any North PP.
I’ve got my doubts North’s priority will be after pick 1, they are not much worse than the other bad teams and there are a lot of teams that are dirty on them for self sabotaging their list. There shouldn’t be a reward for that. With the father son we should get pick 4 which would be hard to stuff up….then again 😬
 

Orange Agent

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 12, 2016
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Would like to bring in a leader in the backline, a Hodge type is not available but even somebody similar to Heath Shaw. Experienced, but on the outer at their current club with 4-5 years left. Taylor deserves better support down there.
 

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Andre the Giant

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2012
6,115
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Melbourne, VIC
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Would like to bring in a leader in the backline, a Hodge type is not available but even somebody similar to Heath Shaw. Experienced, but on the outer at their current club with 4-5 years left. Taylor deserves better support down there.
We probably won’t have the cash but I’d love JJ.

He has been at the Dirty Dogs for years and it’s known I hate that filth club so that is a side benefit, but I love his run which we lost when Williams and to a lesser extent Wilson left. He sometimes lacks consistency but can break games up.

I think we thought Ash might be that guy but he’s more a lock down mopper uppera at the minute. Won’t happen but I can dream.
 

Dangerousfield

Club Legend
Oct 11, 2012
2,654
4,049
AFL Club
Adelaide
Man I am riding Adelaide hard here…all we have to look forward to is a better draft pick 🥺
Hi guys, you've now got pick 3, we also have WCE and Norf to come :)

Sad to see how poor you guys were yesterday against the Swans. You really need Clarko, both in terms of getting the best out of your talent and helping your retention issues.

FWIW, our board believes Sheezel is strong on not wanting to move interstate.

All the best for your off season, hope you get good picks for those that do want to "go home". We of course suffer that problem as well.
 

BarryAglett

Orange Army Commissar General
Sep 24, 2014
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Hi guys, you've now got pick 3, we also have WCE and Norf to come :)

Sad to see how poor you guys were yesterday against the Swans. You really need Clarko, both in terms of getting the best out of your talent and helping your retention issues.

FWIW, our board believes Sheezel is strong on not wanting to move interstate.

All the best for your off season, hope you get good picks for those that do want to "go home". We of course suffer that problem as well.
Sheezel, Rachelle, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Himmelberg. I see what you guys are doing....😏
 

Hendo_21

All Australian
Aug 14, 2021
951
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Would like to bring in a leader in the backline, a Hodge type is not available but even somebody similar to Heath Shaw. Experienced, but on the outer at their current club with 4-5 years left. Taylor deserves better support down there.
Backline is already crowded enough don't think we need an old guy that's going to play every week just for the sake of experience, Taylor, Leek, Buckley, Cumming, Idun, HH, Kennedy, Haynes plus Ash and Perryman who will see time there as well. Unless it's an established no. 2 KPD then I wouldn't get it at all, even then I trust Buckley to get back to where he was after a full season off and a full pre-season to get back into to support Taylor.
 

Trent the flight Steward

Premiership Player
Jul 30, 2006
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Backline is already crowded enough don't think we need an old guy that's going to play every week just for the sake of experience, Taylor, Leek, Buckley, Cumming, Idun, HH, Kennedy, Haynes plus Ash and Perryman who will see time there as well. Unless it's an established no. 2 KPD then I wouldn't get it at all, even then I trust Buckley to get back to where he was after a full season off and a full pre-season to get back into to support Taylor.
The following need to be traded
Whitfield
Cognilio
Kelly

They've got the side as far they could, I think they've all checked out from gws permanently.

Ward
Davis

Retire

I think they need to keep hopper and Taranto Bruhn and should really play hardball with Bruhn. Let him walk in the PSD, need to make a statement. He won't want to play at North.

Not sure McCartney is a great list manager, he seems to just picks miss, there's a lack of balance of the list.

I reckon you get Grundy for one of three mentioned above, plenty of clubs will want Whitfield, I reckon the pies take cognilio as Adams is injury prone and north will give up their priority for Kelly.
 

Hendo_21

All Australian
Aug 14, 2021
951
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The following need to be traded
Whitfield
Cognilio
Kelly

They've got the side as far they could, I think they've all checked out from gws permanently.

Ward
Davis

Retire

I think they need to keep hopper and Taranto Bruhn and should really play hardball with Bruhn. Let him walk in the PSD, need to make a statement. He won't want to play at North.

Not sure McCartney is a great list manager, he seems to just picks miss, there's a lack of balance of the list.

I reckon you get Grundy for one of three mentioned above, plenty of clubs will want Whitfield, I reckon the pies take cognilio as Adams is injury prone and north will give up their priority for Kelly.
No way, hasn't been Whitfield's best year but he's dealt with nagging injuries the entire year and still looked pretty good since coming back from the ankle injury a while ago, you say plenty of clubs want Whitfield that's because he's really good and we shouldn't be looking to move him. Cogs and Kelly have been fantastic this year, Cogs playing the best footy of his career since moving back into the midfield under McVeigh and Kelly has been consistently great all year. Have come around to the idea of letting Hopper and Taranto leave, still have so much talent in the midfield that the loss should be made up for quite easily, take a first for both of them and don't lose too much sleep over it. You've honestly got no clue mate.
 

Trent the flight Steward

Premiership Player
Jul 30, 2006
3,791
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No way, hasn't been Whitfield's best year but he's dealt with nagging injuries the entire year and still looked pretty good since coming back from the ankle injury a while ago, you say plenty of clubs want Whitfield that's because he's really good and we shouldn't be looking to move him. Cogs and Kelly have been fantastic this year, Cogs playing the best footy of his career since moving back into the midfield under McVeigh and Kelly has been consistently great all year. Have come around to the idea of letting Hopper and Taranto leave, still have so much talent in the midfield that the loss should be made up for quite easily, take a first for both of them and don't lose too much sleep over it. You've honestly got no clue mate.
Yep they are playing so well and setting great examples for the rest of the team to follow, that's why you are near the bottom of the ladder and playing putrid footy, not sure letting 2 guys go that are in their prime is that smart
 

Orange Agent

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 12, 2016
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Backline is already crowded enough don't think we need an old guy that's going to play every week just for the sake of experience, Taylor, Leek, Buckley, Cumming, Idun, HH, Kennedy, Haynes plus Ash and Perryman who will see time there as well. Unless it's an established no. 2 KPD then I wouldn't get it at all, even then I trust Buckley to get back to where he was after a full season off and a full pre-season to get back into to support Taylor.

Aleer is a long way off. The backline needs to play as a cohesive unit and it takes somebody to general it like Phil does and Heath used to. Call guys back, fill holes, know when to cover and go third man up. Playing mids as part time defenders is our issue. Moving fwd I only see one spot for HH or Haynes as an intercept role, Perryman should be full time mid and there should only be one running defender out of Cumming, Ash or Whitfield. Hopefully somebody can develop into a backline captain but at the moment I don't see it.
 

Section226

Senior List
May 21, 2021
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Hendo_21 - you've nailed the problem that's going to smash the GWS year-in year-out irrespective of who the new coach is and what players are traded in or out.

Niggling injuries.

The soft tissue injuries are bad enough but GWS have consistently selected players who are clearly underdone - Whitfield for sure and I suspect Haynes as well, amongst others.

There is also dishonesty from the powers-that-be at GWS regarding players on the injury list where we often aren't given the full picture.

Makes it very hard to work out who to keep and who to trade if we don't know if they're playing less than 100% fit.

I still think one has to be traded out of Whitfield, Kelly and Coniglio to free up some salary space.

Kelly for me is a stats accumulator at the moment and if all 3 were fit, he would be the least likely to influence a game.
 

Hendo_21

All Australian
Aug 14, 2021
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1659235423428.png


I don't understand the Kelly concern, he's been so good this year. This chart does a job laying out just how damaging Cogs and Kelly have been this year, when either of them get the ball first in at a stoppage they're responsible for scores at a higher rate then almost anyone else in the competition.
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
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I don't understand the Kelly concern, he's been so good this year. This chart does a job laying out just how damaging Cogs and Kelly have been this year, when either of them get the ball first in at a stoppage they're responsible for scores at a higher rate then almost anyone else in the competition.
Yep, I agree, that's a good graph that demonstrates that Cogs and Kelly are not the ones to be trading.

Whitfield and Haynes have been poor this year - Whitfield still getting possessions but not having his usual impact with them. The question is whether it's something permanent that they've lost, or just temporary.
 

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