List Mgmt. 2022 GWS GIANTS List Management (Trade/ Free Agency/ Draft/ Academy)

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Brave New World

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There has been much discussion here on how do we keep top draft picks from going home. Various strategies are tried by ‘interstate’ clubs such as Brisbane supposedly recruiting players from country Victoria some distance away from Melbourne. One tried by Gold Coast (so far successfully) was to bring in ‘mates’ together, a la Rowell and Anderson. So this bit caught my eye, given the above and that we have a need for KPFs. It is from an article by AFL reporter Chris Cavanagh entitled ‘AFL Draft 2022: Climbers and sliders from U18 national championships’; in which he discusses U18 players who have increased or decreased their rating/possibility of being recruited. Under ‘Sliders’ he wrote:

"Harry Lemmey (South Australia/West Adelaide)

A 199cm key forward, Lemmey was a strong performer for West Adelaide as a bottom-age player in the SANFL under 18s last year and made a good start to this season which included a taste of senior football. However, he did not perform as he would have liked for South Australia in the under-18 national championships. Across three games, the AFL Academy member averaged only 5.3 disposals and kicked one goal. Recruiters are still confident Lemmey will find a home in November’s national draft, but just not as the top-30 selection he might have been earmarked for at the start of the year. At the end of the day, though, where you are picked is just a number.

Tom Scully (South Australia/West Adelaide)

A 202cm key forward, Scully was added to the AFL Academy squad in May after a super start to the season in the SANFL under 18s which saw him kick 22 goals from his first four games. However, his form has not been quite so good since and he was picked for only one of South Australia’s four games in the under-18 national championships. Scully managed just eight disposals, two marks and two behinds in that match. Big men take time and there is no doubt there is some talent there. Like Lemmey, recruiters are still confident Scully will be picked up in the national draft, but just not as high in the order as he was tracking early in the year".

Maybe they are ‘mates’ being both from West Adelaide. Imagine being able to recruit, develop and keep a Harry Lemmey and a Tom Scully long term; which only leaves one question. Would Ryan Angwin be agreeable to trade up to a lower number?
 

Giant Strides

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There has been much discussion here on how do we keep top draft picks from going home. Various strategies are tried by ‘interstate’ clubs such as Brisbane supposedly recruiting players from country Victoria some distance away from Melbourne. One tried by Gold Coast (so far successfully) was to bring in ‘mates’ together, a la Rowell and Anderson. So this bit caught my eye, given the above and that we have a need for KPFs. It is from an article by AFL reporter Chris Cavanagh entitled ‘AFL Draft 2022: Climbers and sliders from U18 national championships’; in which he discusses U18 players who have increased or decreased their rating/possibility of being recruited. Under ‘Sliders’ he wrote:

"Harry Lemmey (South Australia/West Adelaide)

Tom Scully (South Australia/West Adelaide)


Maybe they are ‘mates’ being both from West Adelaide. Imagine being able to recruit, develop and keep a Harry Lemmey and a Tom Scully long term; which only leaves one question. Would Ryan Angwin be agreeable to trade up to a lower number?
I like the idea, but both of these guys have been dropping down the draft order this year, mainly on the back of either not being selected by SA in their U18 Championship teams (Scully) or not being particularly impressive in the U18 Championships (Lemmey). Now, that could be due to some personal issues they were each dealing with, but it could be that the hype got ahead of the reality. Clearly, I'm not an expert on the draft - and PMBangers can add his thoughts I'm sure - but I'd be reluctant to select these guys at the moment (and certainly not early first round).

The problem is always trying to work out who is at less risk of getting homesick, and how to combat it. We've actually had good results from Vic Metro in the early days (guys like Toby, Nick Haynes, Tommo) staying long term, but overall, we have lost players across the whole spectrum - including our own academy kids.

Providing they seem OK during interviews, this year might be one to go hard on the Vic Country players. While they don't all play for the one team, if we draft a bloc of VC kids, I wonder if we can harness that sense of VC team camaraderie to hold them. There are guys that would fit our list needs, throughout our possible draft pick range.

#3 - Aaron Cadman (VC - Greater Western Victoria): KPF
early teens (if Taranto or Hopper to Richmond pick) - Brayden George (VC - Murray Bushrangers): medium forward
late teens (if Hopper or Bruhn to Geelong) - Oliver Hollands (VC - Murray Bushrangers): balanced midfielder
early to late teens (alternative to either previous selection) - Mitch Szybkowski (VC - Dandenong Stingrays): inside midfielder
early to late teens (alternative to either previous selection) - Bailey Humphrey (VC - Gippsland Power): midfield/forward (Taranto replacement, including his inaccurate kicking :D)
#21 - Jacob Konstanty (Gippsland Power): small forward

There's a couple of other VC kids who's be OK, depending on what we see as our "needs", as well as a couple of Tasmanians who, hopefully - unless they get their own team in a few years - are less of a flight risk. Of course, there's other kids from VM, SA & WA that I like too, but if we want to employ a tactic to try to reduce flight risk, then a VC crop is probably the most likely.

If I had my druthers, assuming we lose two of the inside mids, I'd like to get Cadman, George, Hollands & Konstanty.
 

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Giant Strides

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I've had a couple of Lions supporters asking if he was worth recruiting...

"Nah, we're good."
Some of the Lions fringe players are likely to get squeezed out for Ashcroft and Fletcher - any who you think might go worth GWS picking up? Even just as back-up players?

(By that I mean, we've got too many "star" inside mids in our squad - Taranto, Hopper, Coniglio, Green, Ward, Bruhn - all of whom we try to squeeze into the first grade team, often in the wrong role. We need guys who will primarily play VFL, but can step up during times of injury/suspension and play a role.)
 

PMBangers

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Clearly, I'm not an expert on the draft - and @PMBangers can add his thoughts I'm sure - but I'd be reluctant to select these guys at the moment (and certainly not early first round).
I'd still pick Lemmey at 21 if we got say 3 first rounders prior, but Scully I'm not confident enough in his translation to the next level, he'd probably be sitting in the 50s if I did a rankings that long
 

Giant Strides

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I'd still pick Lemmey at 21 if we got say 3 first rounders prior, but Scully I'm not confident enough in his translation to the next level, he'd probably be sitting in the 50s if I did a rankings that long
So, the point was around drafting buddies to try to keep them at GWS. It's always risky, because so many other clubs can just pick off the second guy (or the first guy even!).

We definitely need a key forward. Would you be comfortable with the risk of skipping Cadman early, with a view to selecting Lemmey at a late teens or #21 pick, then draft Scully to keep him company with either #39 (because he might not get to #58) or if we get a 40s pick for someone (Hill?)?

In which case, who would you draft at #3?

P.S. What are your thoughts on Wardlaw, now that his hammy has gone for like the 4th time?

P.P.S. Are you watching the U17 games today?
 

dlanod

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Some of the Lions fringe players are likely to get squeezed out for Ashcroft and Fletcher - any who you think might go worth GWS picking up? Even just as back-up players?

(By that I mean, we've got too many "star" inside mids in our squad - Taranto, Hopper, Coniglio, Green, Ward, Bruhn - all of whom we try to squeeze into the first grade team, often in the wrong role. We need guys who will primarily play VFL, but can step up during times of injury/suspension and play a role.)
We've got a bunch of middling midfield options who have shown something but not much, so it's not like that's entirely tempting from a GWS POV - guys like Tom Berry, Dev Robertson, etc. Our tall depth is basically all developmental other than Jack Payne.
 

Giant Strides

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We've got a bunch of middling midfield options who have shown something but not much, so it's not like that's entirely tempting from a GWS POV - guys like Tom Berry, Dev Robertson, etc. Our tall depth is basically all developmental other than Jack Payne.
If we lose Taranto, Hopper, Bruhn and O'Halloran, that's a lot of inside depth gone. We might look to tempt an established player with the chance to break into first grade, so it might be appealing to someone like Berry or Robertson. From the GWS perspective, looking for someone who is relatively cheap in $, can step up when required, and if they have a breakout year away from the shadow of Neale, Lyons, McLuggage and co then great for us. Of course, we probably don't do that, but with Ashcroft and Fletcher arriving, I see Lions as a team likely to shed some secondary mids, which should present an opportunity for us to put together a better balanced list without necessarily going all in on draftees.
 

PMBangers

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So, the point was around drafting buddies to try to keep them at GWS. It's always risky, because so many other clubs can just pick off the second guy (or the first guy even!).

We definitely need a key forward. Would you be comfortable with the risk of skipping Cadman early, with a view to selecting Lemmey at a late teens or #21 pick, then draft Scully to keep him company with either #39 (because he might not get to #58) or if we get a 40s pick for someone (Hill?)?

In which case, who would you draft at #3?

P.S. What are your thoughts on Wardlaw, now that his hammy has gone for like the 4th time?

P.P.S. Are you watching the U17 games today?
I'd rather not let Cadman slip on the hope that Scully and Lemmey a) are available and b) develop into good players, at the very worst I think Cadman will be a serviceable second tall, Lemmey and Scully I could see not playing a game.

Wardlaw's still #1 for me, some decent conditioning should put hamstring injuries in the past

Nah, coaching my own junior team instead and don't expect it to be much of a spectacle regardless, Jones and Thomas are the main guys that have caught my eye for us, but most of NSWs bests will be Swans tied
 

Scrapporet

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Wardlaw's still #1 for me, some decent conditioning should put hamstring injuries in the past

That is a worry for us with our record with injuries. I'm worried about what's happening with Finn Callaghan? is he getting the best treatment possible? He had injuries before we drafted him and we haven't been able to get on top of them so that is concerning.
 

Giant Strides

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I agree. No matter how good Wardlaw might turn out to be, it's a massive risk to have two early picks with major frailties being looked after by our underperforming S&C Department. It's something that shouldn't influence our draft decisions, but we sit here year after year, week after week complaining about our relentless and recurring soft tissue injuries.
 

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fridgeman

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Too many prospects too mention at the clubs picks but I still think the club will be reluctant to trade out both Hopper and Taranto in the same off season unless the players receive offers big enough to request trades and also the club receives picks that it feels justifies both leaving which for me is a top 5 pick and a top 10 pick or equal in points, Bruhn has played his last game for the Giants after the concussion yesterday and it should be a pick in the 15-20 mark but if it is the Cats they will offer a 2nd (#36 atm and they have a few 3rds to top up the offer) I do hope it turns to s**t and he ends up at the Roos

I dont think Briggs has shown enough that he would be a 1st or 2nd rated ruck on a clubs list and with the suspensions for Preuss and likelty ruck injuries he could well play 15 games next year if he stays at the Giants

i am a big on the idea of list stability but understanding the need to provide opportunities and regenerate the list so on that List movements

MDB retire
Davis He has to be on the list next year for payments so he should play a development/coaching role for the club and this should work with his media opportunities
Keefe Keep as his flexibility would be good to have on the list and with how the reserves have gone experience is needed for the team and it does depend on what he has planned for life after footy
Sproule would be similar to Keefe although he seemed to have struggled this year and if that is down to the shoulder operations he has had in the last 1 2months he did prove he could play AFL level late last year so hopefully he believes this
Brander like XOH needs to work on disposal and they both have the potential to play and even if they spend the year in the reserves they will help the younger players on the list
Brown must be a coaches favourite to get the contract extension although the 4 goal game does show what he could do in a better team which hopefully will happen next year

Hill is gone and I think the club will accept whatever a club offers for him although it will be interesting to see what $ value the contract is with no guarantee for him getting back to the level required

Bruhn is gone also

1 of Hopper or Taranto to leave although it could be both which should provide a draft bonanza and we know the club is addicted to 1st round picks (Rehab is required for McCartney and Caruso

Shaw to be delisted

This does only leave 4 spots so it could be that another 1 does leave and with Derksen coming in it could be that Sproule of Keefe are delisted if Hopper or Taranto stay

Earlier this year I thought the club may be able to re-enter the market for trading in players but I cant see it happening despite media reports the club was interested in Grundy I cant see any players co ming in apart from delisted cheap options and not many would be interested in a move for base salary in Syndey when they would be significantly better off at pretty much all other clubs or even Southport and with a better lifestyle
 

PMBangers

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That is a worry for us with our record with injuries. I'm worried about what's happening with Finn Callaghan? is he getting the best treatment possible? He had injuries before we drafted him and we haven't been able to get on top of them so that is concerning.
Not sure we could do much more woth Callaghan from an S&C pov, we got him through his pre draft injury and then he's gone and done his shoulder, a contact injury like that is almost unstoppable regardless of conditioning.
 

Scrapporet

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Not sure we could do much more woth Callaghan from an S&C pov, we got him through his pre draft injury and then he's gone and done his shoulder, a contact injury like that is almost unstoppable regardless of conditioning.

I thought it was the foot again? and it has been tbc for to long imo. Fingers crossed he has a big off season and they sort it out for him.


Injury Update - August 8

Jacob WehrCalf1-2 weeks
Tim TarantoConcussionTBC
James PeatlingConcussionTBC
Finn CallaghanFootTBC
Matt de BoerConcussionTBC
Toby GreeneThumbSeason
Jarrod BranderHamstringSeason
Connor IdunFootSeason
Ryan AngwinLegSeason
Brent DanielsHamstringSeason
Jack BuckleyKneeSeason
Josh FaheyShoulderSeason
Phil DavisHamstringSeason
Matt FlynnAnkleSeason
 

PMBangers

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I thought it was the foot again? and it has been tbc for to long imo. Fingers crossed he has a big off season and they sort it out for him.


Injury Update - August 8

Jacob WehrCalf1-2 weeks
Tim TarantoConcussionTBC
James PeatlingConcussionTBC
Finn CallaghanFootTBC
Matt de BoerConcussionTBC
Toby GreeneThumbSeason
Jarrod BranderHamstringSeason
Connor IdunFootSeason
Ryan AngwinLegSeason
Brent DanielsHamstringSeason
Jack BuckleyKneeSeason
Josh FaheyShoulderSeason
Phil DavisHamstringSeason
Matt FlynnAnkleSeason
No clue then, I had convinced myself it was a shoulder for some reason.

Can't really comment on any hotspot injuries as I'm still not entirely sure what they are, but I'm not convinced our medical is that bad given how we've managed to get Cogs, hogan, Kelly, etc. to regularly available players after having various issues. It's an unfortunate part of AFL, and I reckon most clubs supporters would argue they're the worst hit by injuries most years.
 

PMBangers

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But look in Wardlaws case specifically it is a slight concern the more I think about it, explosiveness is a big part of his game and generally you lose a bit of it post soft tissue injuries. I did my hammy 18 months ago and still s**t myself when I sprint/ pull up sore from games, not totally the same but it does sit in the back of the mind
 

Giant Pete

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But look in Wardlaws case specifically it is a slight concern the more I think about it, explosiveness is a big part of his game and generally you lose a bit of it post soft tissue injuries. I did my hammy 18 months ago and still s**t myself when I sprint/ pull up sore from games, not totally the same but it does sit in the back of the mind
If he’s pinging multiple hammys at 18 years old it’s a no from me.
 

Rioli2Rioli

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Just out of curiosity , Do you guys believe both Hopper & Taranto will leave or will the giants hold hopper to his contract for 2023 and does that mean TT is gone ?

Also he has been out for a few weeks with this concussion is everything ok or just the club not playing him because they think he is gone

thanks guys
 

BarryAglett

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Just out of curiosity , Do you guys believe both Hopper & Taranto will leave or will the giants hold hopper to his contract for 2023 and does that mean TT is gone ?

Also he has been out for a few weeks with this concussion is everything ok or just the club not playing him because they think he is gone

thanks guys
I think the Taranto concussion is genuine and they are just abiding the protocols because of delayed effects.
Hopper to Tigers seems the most likely. TT is the most open about wanting to stay.

I heard a left-field rumour that Clarkson and Dusty were part of a package deal to GWS for a swap for Hopper.
But, we know what rumours are worth.
 

Hendo_21

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Just out of curiosity , Do you guys believe both Hopper & Taranto will leave or will the giants hold hopper to his contract for 2023 and does that mean TT is gone ?

Also he has been out for a few weeks with this concussion is everything ok or just the club not playing him because they think he is gone

thanks guys
Think Taranto is very likely gone and then Hopper I'm less sure of him leaving but would still think he finds a new club
 

Hendo_21

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Thinking about our likely draft hand for this year and what it might look like:

Top 4 pick (own)
Mid-Late first (Hopper)
Mid-Late first (Taranto)
Early second (Bruhn)
Early second (Own)
Third round pick (Hopper)
Third round pick (Taranto)
Third round pick (own)

Could end up being 5 picks in the top 25, due to the teams that Hopper, Taranto and Bruhn are all linked too it's probably going to be difficult to get top end picks for them but would still be at least a first plus something else a bit later for Taranto and Hopper then would think a similar return to what we got for Caldwell but a better, Bruhn's played pretty conssitently and when given a midfield role has looked very promising think he's shown more then Caldwell ever did. If it ends up being 5 picks in the top 25 then I think 3 of those should be spent on forwards at all different sizes, it's such a lacking area for us that needs to be improved.
 

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