List Mgmt. 2022 GWS GIANTS List Management (Trade/ Free Agency/ Draft/ Academy)

GWS Goose

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Have just seen the Swans handed a flogging and as I watched the disaster unfold it became pretty obvious they missed Kennedy, badly. Geelong we’re just too big and too tough, although I thought Warner would have learnt a lot. Modern teams need tough contested possession getters. I still think it might come back to bite us if we lose Hopper in big games. Hopefully Tom Green can explodes next year and is able to see out the season. I think that if we should get Wardlaw.
If Wardlaw is there, we should take him
 

Giant Strides

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Re-checking my list notes after those delistings & the expected trades, I have us at the following list composition:
  • 7 KPBs (Taylor, Buckley, Haynes, Aleer, Keeffe, Fleeton, Davis to be added to rookie A list)
  • 7 Med/small Defs (Idun, Cumming, Kennedy, Fahey, Wehr, Hamilton, Shaw)
  • 4 KPFs (Hogan, Himmelberg, Riccardi, Derksen)
  • 5 Med/small Fwds (Greene, Daniels, Peatling, Lloyd, Brown)
  • 11 Mids (Coniglio, Green, Perryman, Kelly, Whitfield, Callaghan, Ash, Ward, Stone, O'Halloran, Angwin)
  • 3 Rucks (Preuss, Flynn, Briggs)

So, 30 main list, 6 rookie A, 1 rookie B. 37 total. 6 main list vacancies plus 1 rookie B vacancy.

There would be a few placements that you might debate, but I think they are all reasonable. I put HH back into the forwards mainly because we're well stocked for KPDs, and not for KPFs. It will be interesting to see what the new game plan might be, and whether HH's role returns forward or remains down back once Buckley is available again. That just gives us a sense of where the holes needing to be filled are. I have these as likely to be:
  • 2 KPFs
  • 2 Med/small fwds
  • 3 Mids (I'd be looking for mids with speed or burst as opposed to slow-paced inside mids).

If the new gameplan is closer to the Richmond gameplan and based on forward pressure and not KPF-focused, that might drop to 1 KPF & increase to 3 med/small fwds.

1 of those will be a Cat B, and we don't have a lot of great options of who to select there.

As Davis will be delisted, there will be 7 picks available to take 6 selections in the national draft. Or, we trade in someone or grab a free agent if we want some more experience. I can't see more than 1 or 2 of these, to leave us with 4 or 5 ND selections. We've seen suggestions of Castagna or Aarts as part of the Taranto/Hopper trade - are there any others from the recently delisted players we should look at? Or someone disgruntled at their club, or told to look for offers? (Clearly, we can't take Bowes' salary.)

If we only take Castagna in the Richmond trade, that would leave us 5 main list spots, with 6 picks allowed. If we have say #s 3, 12, 19, 21, 39, 57 (before FA comp picks) that's 4 live picks + Harry Rowston, or we hope that Harry might get through to be the Cat B pick up and be prepared to lose him if someone bids on him. (FWIW, I presume that someone would bid on him.)

And then we just have to get the picks right!

In that case, if Norths & Eagles don't take him, I can see a strong case for GWS taking Wardlaw with #3.

Wardlaw at #3, Jefferson at #12, Konstanty at #19, Clarke at #21, Nick Sadler or Jaiden Magor or a number of other options at #39 might work (or otherwise, just get Harry Rowston).

mid, KPF, small fwd, med fwd (who might transition to mid), mid

If we're concerned about his Wardlaw's hammies, then Tsatas, Mackenzie or Phillipou could be options - the latter being a forward/mid who could essentially play a third tall role and transition into the midfield in time. But a professional club needs to back itself in respect of its medical and strength and conditioning team.
 

Maximus 2011

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Re-checking my list notes after those delistings & the expected trades, I have us at the following list composition:
  • 7 KPBs (Taylor, Buckley, Haynes, Aleer, Keeffe, Fleeton, Davis to be added to rookie A list)
  • 7 Med/small Defs (Idun, Cumming, Kennedy, Fahey, Wehr, Hamilton, Shaw)
  • 4 KPFs (Hogan, Himmelberg, Riccardi, Derksen)
  • 5 Med/small Fwds (Greene, Daniels, Peatling, Lloyd, Brown)
  • 11 Mids (Coniglio, Green, Perryman, Kelly, Whitfield, Callaghan, Ash, Ward, Stone, O'Halloran, Angwin)
  • 3 Rucks (Preuss, Flynn, Briggs)

So, 30 main list, 6 rookie A, 1 rookie B. 37 total. 6 main list vacancies plus 1 rookie B vacancy.

There would be a few placements that you might debate, but I think they are all reasonable. I put HH back into the forwards mainly because we're well stocked for KPDs, and not for KPFs. It will be interesting to see what the new game plan might be, and whether HH's role returns forward or remains down back once Buckley is available again. That just gives us a sense of where the holes needing to be filled are. I have these as likely to be:
  • 2 KPFs
  • 2 Med/small fwds
  • 3 Mids (I'd be looking for mids with speed or burst as opposed to slow-paced inside mids).

If the new gameplan is closer to the Richmond gameplan and based on forward pressure and not KPF-focused, that might drop to 1 KPF & increase to 3 med/small fwds.

1 of those will be a Cat B, and we don't have a lot of great options of who to select there.

As Davis will be delisted, there will be 7 picks available to take 6 selections in the national draft. Or, we trade in someone or grab a free agent if we want some more experience. I can't see more than 1 or 2 of these, to leave us with 4 or 5 ND selections. We've seen suggestions of Castagna or Aarts as part of the Taranto/Hopper trade - are there any others from the recently delisted players we should look at? Or someone disgruntled at their club, or told to look for offers? (Clearly, we can't take Bowes' salary.)

If we only take Castagna in the Richmond trade, that would leave us 5 main list spots, with 6 picks allowed. If we have say #s 3, 12, 19, 21, 39, 57 (before FA comp picks) that's 4 live picks + Harry Rowston, or we hope that Harry might get through to be the Cat B pick up and be prepared to lose him if someone bids on him. (FWIW, I presume that someone would bid on him.)

And then we just have to get the picks right!

In that case, if Norths & Eagles don't take him, I can see a strong case for GWS taking Wardlaw with #3.

Wardlaw at #3, Jefferson at #12, Konstanty at #19, Clarke at #21, Nick Sadler or Jaiden Magor or a number of other options at #39 might work (or otherwise, just get Harry Rowston).

mid, KPF, small fwd, med fwd (who might transition to mid), mid

If we're concerned about his Wardlaw's hammies, then Tsatas, Mackenzie or Phillipou could be options - the latter being a forward/mid who could essentially play a third tall role and transition into the midfield in time. But a professional club needs to back itself in respect of its medical and strength and conditioning team.
If we land Wardlaw... wow. I have only seen 1 game he played and all I needed was a flash and was like WHO WAS THAT?! Reminded me of a Dangerfield or Judd explosive type speed.

Do you think we will get Geelong's first rounder for Bruhn? which would give us 18 & 19... huge bargaining power there if we wanted to trade up. Could see us get a pick in the 5-10 range if there was someone we really wanted... Or get a likely lowly club's next years first? West Coast, North, Adelaide, Hawks?
 

Giant Pete

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If we land Wardlaw... wow. I have only seen 1 game he played and all I needed was a flash and was like WHO WAS THAT?! Reminded me of a Dangerfield or Judd explosive type speed.

Do you think we will get Geelong's first rounder for Bruhn? which would give us 18 & 19... huge bargaining power there if we wanted to trade up. Could see us get a pick in the 5-10 range if there was someone we really wanted... Or get a likely lowly club's next years first? West Coast, North, Adelaide, Hawks?
Just have to check his hamstring situation. Remember Nathan Freeman… explosive with hamstring problems… never came good for Collingwood.
 

Giant Strides

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If we land Wardlaw... wow. I have only seen 1 game he played and all I needed was a flash and was like WHO WAS THAT?! Reminded me of a Dangerfield or Judd explosive type speed.

Do you think we will get Geelong's first rounder for Bruhn? which would give us 18 & 19... huge bargaining power there if we wanted to trade up. Could see us get a pick in the 5-10 range if there was someone we really wanted... Or get a likely lowly club's next years first? West Coast, North, Adelaide, Hawks?
If there are no injury issues for Wardlaw, then I've come around to the point that he'd be an excellent complement to our midfield. He would provide that explosive burst from stoppages that we've really missed since Shiel and maybe Treloar. Cogs and Kelly have a little, but I think they've lost a little explosiveness over time.

Those draft picks postulate GWS getting a future pick for Bruhn (hopefully first round!), but I'm of the view that we can't use every pick we'd get this use, so need to spread into 2023.

Just have to check his hamstring situation. Remember Nathan Freeman… explosive with hamstring problems… never came good for Collingwood.
Yep, that's the concern. Realistically, he had one injury, then tried to return probably too early in a school game for the second. So not necessarily a major concern in a professional club environment. But, it's not something that us fans can really judge. Our frustration is obviously based on the past 5-6 years of repeat soft tissue injuries.

Bottom line, I'm at a point where I can live with Cadman, Sheezel or Wardlaw. They are have good points, and they all carry risks. Wardlaw's is his injury susceptability. With the other picks we have, we should be able to get reasonable options to fill other needs.

In the end, though, it depends what the club recruiters think.

If we could trade a couple of teen/20s picks for another in the 5 to 10 region, there's definite quality in there ... but do we want to be back to having everything riding on a couple of early picks with the risk of them going home - or spread the risk at least a little?
 

PMBangers

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Yep, that's the concern. Realistically, he had one injury, then tried to return probably too early in a school game for the second. So not necessarily a major concern in a professional club environment. But, it's not something that us fans can really judge. Our frustration is obviously based on the past 5-6 years of repeat soft tissue injuries.
This is such an under reported point, people are making out like he has a chronic history of hamstring injuries when it was the one tear and a follow up strain, which is usually a sign of coming back too early. He could've come back to play in the final Metro game if he wanted to really, and I think opting against that shows he's serious about putting it behind him.

This isn't a Jye Caldwell situation where he had a few genuinely bad ones
 

Hendo_21

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Think Wardlaw plays with a real good edge as well thats always good to add to the team, bit firey
 

Rioli2Rioli

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If we land Wardlaw... wow. I have only seen 1 game he played and all I needed was a flash and was like WHO WAS THAT?! Reminded me of a Dangerfield or Judd explosive type speed.

Do you think we will get Geelong's first rounder for Bruhn? which would give us 18 & 19... huge bargaining power there if we wanted to trade up.
This is actually a massive advantage

tactically you guys could be a situation never seen before since the 2nd day of trading has come in to the afl
18+19+21 west coast holding 20 and perhaps if a deal could be done to acquire that with later picks you will hold like 30+39 then the Giants will have the first 3 picks on the 2nd day

Different teams would see different players tat have slipped they will be desperate to trade for and GWS knowing exactly what they want could trade out for future picks accordingly

Richmond had 27+28+29 last year and managed to get what we believe to be 3 really strong players tat are looking like very good players in Sonsie,Banks & Clarke

That would be an amazing position to hold for GWS
 

Maximus 2011

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This is actually a massive advantage

tactically you guys could be a situation never seen before since the 2nd day of trading has come in to the afl
18+19+21 west coast holding 20 and perhaps if a deal could be done to acquire that with later picks you will hold like 30+39 then the Giants will have the first 3 picks on the 2nd day

Different teams would see different players tat have slipped they will be desperate to trade for and GWS knowing exactly what they want could trade out for future picks accordingly

Richmond had 27+28+29 last year and managed to get what we believe to be 3 really strong players tat are looking like very good players in Sonsie,Banks & Clarke

That would be an amazing position to hold for GWS
Agreed, I am thinking just the value to be able to bundle them up and trade into next years draft could be epic! If a kid a club rated as say 8th best in the draft is still available at 19 then why wouldn't they trade next years future first for 19?
 

Rioli2Rioli

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Agreed, I am thinking just the value to be able to bundle them up and trade into next years draft could be epic! If a kid a club rated as say 8th best in the draft is still available at 19 then why wouldn't they trade next years future first for 19?
Agreed

then pick #19 comes along and another club see's the player they wanted was still on the board - again offers next years pick
so on with 20 & 21

This gives GWS an edge to select the players they want whilst knowing who the other team wants to trade for and allowing at the same time getting great picks back.

Pick #19 and if possible 20 would be fantastic position
 

Maximus 2011

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Agreed

then pick #19 comes along and another club see's the player they wanted was still on the board - again offers next years pick
so on with 20 & 21

This gives GWS an edge to select the players they want whilst knowing who the other team wants to trade for and allowing at the same time getting great picks back.

Pick #19 and if possible 20 would be fantastic position
Just quietly as an ex-richmond supporter, you are welcome to join the Orange Army ;)
 

Rioli2Rioli

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Just quietly as an ex-richmond supporter, you are welcome to join the Orange Army ;)
Hahaha

You jumped ship at the wrong time , But we forgive and forget
you are welcome back also.

But on a serious note , Hope you guys do well under Kingsley
He was good with us and hopefully employs a similar game style
 

Maximus 2011

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Hahaha

You jumped ship at the wrong time , But we forgive and forget
you are welcome back also.

But on a serious note , Hope you guys do well under Kingsley
He was good with us and hopefully employs a similar game style
I jumped ship in 2015 I think after a horrendous loss to a s**t team after a club legend died. That was the last straw. Obviously the rest is history but I bleed Orange now
 

Hendo_21

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Seems like we're warming up to Wardlaw a bit more as option recently is there any fear that he's going to jump like others? Even with Taranto, Hopper and Bruhn going is there fear that Kelly, Coniglio, Perryman, Callaghan, Green + sprinkles of others keep him out of the mid rotation and is he good enough to have an impact in a position elsewhere and would also be keen to play a different position.
 

Giant Strides

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Seems like we're warming up to Wardlaw a bit more as option recently is there any fear that he's going to jump like others? Even with Taranto, Hopper and Bruhn going is there fear that Kelly, Coniglio, Perryman, Callaghan, Green + sprinkles of others keep him out of the mid rotation and is he good enough to have an impact in a position elsewhere and would also be keen to play a different position.
Yes, I have certainly warmed to him.

I'll say up front that I was not a fan of losing Hopper this year, knowing Bruhn and Taranto were very likely to go. I know that there's an argument that we've got too many slow, one-paced mids, and that's true - until we have injuries. I always thought he was 1 too many. The issue has been too many same-paced early draft pick mids that we keep trying to play together.

When I look at the list, we're essentially losing 4 players capable of playing midfield (Taranto, Hopper, Bruhn & de Boer), and whereas I would see 14 mids is the natural number, we'll only have 11, so we do need reinforcement. They don't necessarily need to be early draft picks though.

If we do select him, I can see that with those numbers, he'll get a chance to play if he's good enough next year. We'll always suffer injuries. Like Bruhn, we'll stick him initially somewhere other than the middle. Forward perhaps, and hope that his explosiveness allows him to play as a defensive forward.

The other thing to note is the age demographic of the list. Ward will be 33 next campaign, and it might be his last. Cogs will be 29, so he may only have 4 to 5 years left - the point being to get Wardlaw up to his prime when Cogs retires. And it's unlikely that no-one else leaves in the meantime. So, I think there's room for Wardlaw, and if he's good, or outstanding, it won't be him that we're talking about "fitting in".
 

Giant Strides

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Following on from the last ... we still need a developmental KPF IMHO and they take time; plus another goal-scoring small/medium forward would be handy. They don't need developmental time, but would help fix existing problems up front for us.

So, IMHO, there is a rationale for each of Wardlaw, Cadman or Sheezel. (And a couple of others work too, if our recruiters have them ranked more highly.)
 

dlanod

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Following on from the last ... we still need a developmental KPF IMHO and they take time; plus another goal-scoring small/medium forward would be handy. They don't need developmental time, but would help fix existing problems up front for us.
That time is why I think if you get a chance to take a great tall option when you don't normally pick that high, jump on it.

Otherwise you're not likely to get a second chance because they won't be available in the second half of the first round in later years.
 

Scrapporet

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I'm thinking both Wardlaw and Cadman are gone at out pick so not sure who we take. Did I read that Sheezel was not keen on interstate? Who ever we take we need to do some real good research as we can't keep having players doing two years and going.

Will never be guarantees but Bruhn scenario can not happen again when we knew he never wanted to be here from draft night. Surely the club had doubts? now we may struggle to get a first rounder for him.
 

Giant Pete

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I'm thinking both Wardlaw and Cadman are gone at out pick so not sure who we take. Did I read that Sheezel was not keen on interstate? Who ever we take we need to do some real good research as we can't keep having players doing two years and going.

Will never be guarantees but Bruhn scenario can not happen again when we knew he never wanted to be here from draft night. Surely the club had doubts? now we may struggle to get a first rounder for him.
We’ll get Geelongs first this year or next.
 

Giant Pete

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If we get Wardlaw, the only thing stopping him from getting him early games is injuries or himself.
His game is different to what we’ve got so it would complement our midfield nicely.
The thing that he also has he can jump and take a mark.
 

Hendo_21

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I'm thinking both Wardlaw and Cadman are gone at out pick so not sure who we take. Did I read that Sheezel was not keen on interstate? Who ever we take we need to do some real good research as we can't keep having players doing two years and going.

Will never be guarantees but Bruhn scenario can not happen again when we knew he never wanted to be here from draft night. Surely the club had doubts? now we may struggle to get a first rounder for him.
Sheezel would be great! Feel like he's getting lost in the shuffle a bit maybe people think he's going to be gone by our pick so they haven't bothered to talk about him but at this point I think it's more likely he's there then Cadman. Sheezel is a super talent whos been producing like crazy at the NAB level, he's carried over his good play into the state level as well against tougher competition. He fills a need for us and is super talented, don't think he's more a flight risk then anyone else. Would love him. Shown he can push up the ground as well and be an impact midfielder, him and Toby would cause fits i50.
 

Giant Strides

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I'm thinking both Wardlaw and Cadman are gone at out pick so not sure who we take. Did I read that Sheezel was not keen on interstate? Who ever we take we need to do some real good research as we can't keep having players doing two years and going.

Will never be guarantees but Bruhn scenario can not happen again when we knew he never wanted to be here from draft night. Surely the club had doubts? now we may struggle to get a first rounder for him.
Sheezel has said the right things about being loyal to the club that selects him. The question is, are those statements real or just the fluffy stuff that most of the prospective draftees (including presumably Tanner Bruhn) say to not create waves?

I agree it's up to our recruiting team to scrutinise him, his family, his life to date to ascertain the truth. The problem is, as I always say, if a lot of the top draftees don't want to go interstate ... how far down our list do we choose due to the potential go-home factor?

The seeming biggest issue for Harry Sheezel is his religion. He's Jewish, which is very unusual for an AFL player, and hence very heavily linked to his family and the Jewish community in Melbourne. However, Sydney has a large Jewish community too, so you would hope that he might see it as a way to expand his horizons. From his interviews, he comes across as very articulate, intelligent, self-aware; so he's probably one that I'd likely take at his word. As long as we get his inculcation into Sydney right, provide him with some community links, I could see that he'd be as good as his word.

The other knocks on Sheezel are mainly around his speed - but conversely, his overall footy IQ is probably one of the highest in this year's draft. He's sometime described as "Pendlebury-like" in his ability to sum up a situation and work out the best course of action. (There's evidence of the opposite though in some games, so, take it as a partial description.)
 

Giant Strides

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Sheezel would be great! Feel like he's getting lost in the shuffle a bit maybe people think he's going to be gone by our pick so they haven't bothered to talk about him but at this point I think it's more likely he's there then Cadman. Sheezel is a super talent whos been producing like crazy at the NAB level, he's carried over his good play into the state level as well against tougher competition. He fills a need for us and is super talented, don't think he's more a flight risk then anyone else. Would love him. Shown he can push up the ground as well and be an impact midfielder, him and Toby would cause fits i50.
I think that Cadman's goal-kicking inaccuracy had him down the order initially, with the expectation that Ashcroft, Wardlaw and Sheezel would be the first 3 off the board ... Cadman now seems to have snuck up the board. But it's impossible to be certain exactly who NM & WCE will choose - indeed, one of them may trade their early pick for a brace of other picks.

I think it's a lottery at the moment - the good thing from my perspective is that any of those 3 fits a GWS need or want.