List Mgmt. 2022 GWS GIANTS List Management (Trade/ Free Agency/ Draft/ Academy)

[Hendo_21]

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' November ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey rates the performances of 30 of 2022's top draft prospects

www.afl.com.au

Not his mock draft but a final ranking and he's mentioned us with:

Cadman
Jefferson
Hayes
Weddle
Konstanty
George
Hewett
Hotton
Gruzewski
Hustwaite
Davey
Rowston
Allan

Probably likely our guys come from this pool of players, most of them make sense a few we've heard before a couple new ones as well. First time I've seen us linked to a non-Cadman tall forward which makes me think maybe they're intrested in doubling up this year because they'll have to pick another one in the next couple years anyway. Charlie Clarke not ranked which explains his absence from this list but seems we've done a fair bit of work on him as well.

 

[Giant Pete]

What do people make of this possible haul:
Cadman
Allen
Hayes
Konstanty
Clarke
Rowston

Going forward, we need a defender who is about 2m.

 

[Hendo_21]

What do people make of this possible haul:
Cadman
Allen
Hayes
Konstanty
Clarke
Rowston

Going forward, we need a defender who is about 2m.

Hard to be upset at that imo, KPF tick, 2 small/medium forwards tick, inside/outside mid tick, KPD tick, Rowston tick. Think I'd rather use the Hayes pick on someone like George and then flip the Clarke pick into best KPD avaliable at that spot. I don't see KPD as a huge need so I'm less keen to spend a top 20 pick on that spot.

 

[Giant Pete]

Hard to be upset at that imo, KPF tick, 2 small/medium forwards tick, inside/outside mid tick, KPD tick, Rowston tick. Think I'd rather use the Hayes pick on someone like George and then flip the Clarke pick into best KPD avaliable at that spot. I don't see KPD as a huge need so I'm less keen to spend a top 20 pick on that spot.

Yes… not a huge need… but after this year we have no kpd over 195. I find having a defender 2m plus to be very useful. Watch Hayes highlights.. He’s very rangy… will make a very solid defender in the afl imo.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Hard to be upset at that imo, KPF tick, 2 small/medium forwards tick, inside/outside mid tick, KPD tick, Rowston tick. Think I'd rather use the Hayes pick on someone like George and then flip the Clarke pick into best KPD avaliable at that spot. I don't see KPD as a huge need so I'm less keen to spend a top 20 pick on that spot.

I get George on talent but you would want him to sign a 3 year deal which he can’t commit too before the draft even verbally as per the rules.

The reason I say that is he just did his ACL which means year 1 is gone and typically players struggle the year after their ACL to get back agility. Normally it’s the year after they come back that everything gets back to normal.

Then you ask does he stay in Melbourne for year 1 or does he come up to Sydney where he is very likely to get homesick not being able to play and being away from home.

To me that puts him in the too hard basket, let him go to a big Melbourne club that can warehouse him and nurture him along and then unleashed him when he’s fully recovered.

Essendon’s 2nd pick if not taken by F/S bid would be a good landing spot for him.

On the defender point I’m with Giant Pete, we need another young developing key. Yes Buckley comes back and he looks promising but he’s off an ACL, Keeffe could barely run this year and Davis is nearly cooked body wise. I’d like us to bring one in, we have the picks.

 

[Hendo_21]

I get George on talent but you would want him to sign a 3 year deal which he can’t commit too before the draft even verbally as per the rules.

The reason I say that is he just did his ACL which means year 1 is gone and typically players struggle the year after their ACL to get back agility. Normally it’s the year after they come back that everything gets back to normal.

Then you ask does he stay in Melbourne for year 1 or does he come up to Sydney where he is very likely to get homesick not being able to play and being away from home.

To me that puts him in the too hard basket, let him go to a big Melbourne club that can warehouse him and nurture him along and then unleashed him when he’s fully recovered.

Essendon’s 2nd pick if not taken by F/S bid would be a good landing spot for him.

On the defender point I’m with Giant Pete, we need another young developing key. Yes Buckley comes back and he looks promising but he’s off an ACL, Keeffe could barely run this year and Davis is nearly cooked body wise. I’d like us to bring one in, we have the picks.

Guess I'm just not sure how you can come to that conclusion, when there is pretty much nothing out there suggesting he's a go home risk or not. If GWS come to the conclusion either way then I'm fine with that, they have so much more information avaliable to them then we do. This year's Sandy team is loaded with talent so there's a decent chance we're going to be bringing more then one of them into our side which is why I think bringing in their head coach as a development guy for is going to be big and I'm sure that's a valuable tool for the young guys to have someone they already have a strong connection with and they'll spend a bit of time with.

 

[Hendo_21]

Yes… not a huge need… but after this year we have no kpd over 195. I find having a defender 2m plus to be very useful. Watch Hayes highlights.. He’s very rangy… will make a very solid defender in the afl imo.

I just don't see an avenue for him to play consistently and when I spend a top 20ish pick I want that player to have a chance to play consistently in the near future and if Buckley comes back and Leek keeps building on what he did towards the end of the year there isn't going to be room for him. Just not a big enough need atm to warrant spending really valuable draft capital on, if we don't use 30 in a Rowston bid would be fine using that to take a KPD there but anything earlier I want to spend on guys that have clear avenues to play on this team.

 

[Giant Strides]

What do people make of this possible haul:
Cadman
Allen
Hayes
Konstanty
Clarke
Rowston

Going forward, we need a defender who is about 2m.

Numbers-wise, I expect us to only take 5 not 6, as we've committed to another year for Callum Brown and have to upgrade him from the B Cat rookie list (I believe); and we also want to re-select Davis in the rookie draft.

As I've previously said, I doubt that we take a KPD given the numbers we have on the list, but I do agree on the need for a KPD who can handle the taller KPFs such as the Kings. As I mentioned in a previous post, the one who intrigues me is Harry Barnett. Labelled a ruck, but there's some discussion over his ability to be turned into a defender: he's 202 cm, already 97 kg (versus Hayes who's a beanpole at 199 cm & 82 kg), but 3.0 second 20m sprint & 6 min 32 sec 2km so quick and mobile. His highlights have him taking a bunch of defensive marks that looks high quality. I could see us having a bet each way. Although, clearly, a lot of media pundits have us linked to Lewis Hayes, although I've not seen anything specifically stating that's coming from the club.

My own preference is Cadman, Hollands, Clarke, Rowston and one more. The extra one could be any of Barnett (ruck or KPD), Hayes (KPD - although personally I'm not in favour of him), Konstanty (small forward), Hotton (quick high half forward), Burgiel (quick forward-mid - who would be my personal preference), Dowling (smart mid-mid) ... with a couple of other later options if we end up with a late pick (Magor, Sadler). Who we get depends on how we shuffle the picks we have (including trading up, or trading into 2023 draft).

So, I'm similar-minded to the list above. Cadman, Clarke, Rowston I agree 100%. Happy with Konstanty, although I see him as similar to Daniels & Beford, so question whether he should be a priority (I'd take Clarke as a more balanced goal/defence forward). Allan I'm not 100% in agreement, as I think his pure speed is getting attention whereas it's not seen as much in games, but I accept that since he missed a lot of the season it's hard to be certain of his upside. Let's say, if he was still there at our #15 pick (and Hollands wasn't) I'd probably be persuaded to take the punt on him. We can start him on a wing and move him inside later, and so is attractive.

Brayden George I like the idea of, with a view that he could be a Petracca-like mid-forward ... except I don't like the injury aspect. We have enough players who are suspect in the resilience/injury department, and while we could pick up someone in the PSSP to cover for him (similar types such as Shadeau Brain, other smaller in Brandon Leary, Seth Campbell), I'd probably prefer not to take the risk.

Twomey has Rowston rated at #30, which presumably is informed by whispers from clubland, so I see him likely to get bid on before we can use our #31 pick (and hence should move it out).

A couple of (speculative, of course!) examples:

If Bulldogs primarily would like a combination such as Hayes (KPD) and Hotton (wing/high half forward), then their #11 is perhaps too soon for Hayes, #21 too late, and possibly also too late for Hotton, so our combo of #15 & #18 might appeal. So, a swap of #15, #18 & #31 for their #11, #21 & #39 gets us earlier (e.g. Hollands, if he gets past Carlton, maybe Allan if not taken by Geelong or West Coast in the top 10) while not pushing our #18 back too far. #39 (which comes in about 3 picks from an Ashcroft bid) could be swapped with Brisbane for their Geelong F2R pick to help with a Jaspa Fletcher bid (significantly reducing any deficit going into 2023 draft). We'd end up with #1, #11, #19, #21, #57, #61 which could get Cadman, Hollands or Allan, Konstanty or Burgiel, Clarke, and match bids on Rowston while also getting something in 2023. If we still wanted to sell #19, #21 should likely still get Clarke if we like him, and then we'd have to use a late pick (the leftover from Rowston bid), but there could be some value there in guys like Dowling, Magor, Sadler, Brain, Campbell or Leary.

Melbourne could be up for a trade of their #13 & #37 for #15 & #31 if they think the player they want would still be there 2 spots later, and bring their second pick forward by a few picks. We'd still want to on-trade the #37.

Hawthorn might be prepared to trade their Doggies' F2R pick for #31 to get earlier in this year's draft; they'll likely target some trade of their swag of picks in the 40s & 50s - possibly with Lions since we wouldn't want those ourselves.

GWS picking up the Sandy Dragons coach is interesting. Would that be a sneaky way of lessening the 'go-home factor' for Sheezel at our #1 (personally, while I do like Sheezel, KPF is a clear need for us, and I'm comfortable with Aaron Cadman)? Otherwise, would that makes us more likely to go for Olli Hotton (and reduce his go-home factor) at #15 or #18, and perhaps bring a Toby McMullin into calculations if we did trade out picks and need a late-pick draftee?

 

[Andre the Giant]

Guess I'm just not sure how you can come to that conclusion, when there is pretty much nothing out there suggesting he's a go home risk or not. If GWS come to the conclusion either way then I'm fine with that, they have so much more information avaliable to them then we do. This year's Sandy team is loaded with talent so there's a decent chance we're going to be bringing more then one of them into our side which is why I think bringing in their head coach as a development guy for is going to be big and I'm sure that's a valuable tool for the young guys to have someone they already have a strong connection with and they'll spend a bit of time with.

It’s not a conclusion in him it’s just logically harder when you can’t play. Having support around him would be a good thing. With the 2 year contract you’re giving yourself one year to assess him and that is a compromised year. Looks a talent but I reckon there are better fits.

 

[Hendo_21]

It’s not a conclusion in him it’s just logically harder when you can’t play. Having support around him would be a good thing. With the 2 year contract you’re giving yourself one year to assess him and that is a compromised year. Looks a talent but I reckon there are better fits.

You'd certainly commit to George more then just the initial 2 year contract becaues you have to trust your evaluation of him as a draft prospect and your medical team that they're are going to be able to get the most out of his body. Waiting to see if he's worth a contract extension based off a handful of games coming off a torn ACL is bad process imo and you have to commit more to him then that, with most young guys and especially in George's case coming off major knee injuries years 3 and 4 are really going to be the key years to determine whether he has it or not. It likely wouldn't be a very lucractive extension I imagine, the agent doesn't hold a heap of leverage when a club is offering a player a 2 year extension before they've even seen him step out of the rehab group yet. If he passes his medical and they think these issues won't be continuous or aggravating and the draft team thinks he's not a go home factor then on field wise I think he's exactly what we're after but if both the draft and medical team can't tick him off then we shouldn't take him.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' November ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey rates the performances of 30 of 2022's top draft prospects

www.afl.com.au

Not his mock draft but a final ranking and he's mentioned us with:

Cadman
Jefferson
Hayes
Weddle
Konstanty
George
Hewett
Hotton
Gruzewski
Hustwaite
Davey
Rowston
Allan

Probably likely our guys come from this pool of players, most of them make sense a few we've heard before a couple new ones as well. First time I've seen us linked to a non-Cadman tall forward which makes me think maybe they're intrested in doubling up this year because they'll have to pick another one in the next couple years anyway. Charlie Clarke not ranked which explains his absence from this list but seems we've done a fair bit of work on him as well.

With most of those names Cal is saying 'the Giants could consider him given they have multiple picks' so it's just that we have so many picks in the range these guys might fall. So outside of Cadman and Rowston wouldn't put any weight in being linked to these guys at the moment and personally I put more weight in links to us reinterviewing guys rather than a write up saying we have picks in this range so we might consider a certain player.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

So, the draft order is set prior to any trades on draft night which leaves us with 1, 15, 18, 19, 31, 57

FINAL DRAFT ORDER: Check out your club's picks

Check out all your club's picks ahead of the 2022 NAB AFL Draft

www.afl.com.au

 

[Giant Strides]

So, the draft order is set prior to any trades on draft night which leaves us with 1, 15, 18, 19, 31, 57

FINAL DRAFT ORDER: Check out your club's picks

Check out all your club's picks ahead of the 2022 NAB AFL Draft

www.afl.com.au

Hmmm, so our pick #61 has been lost. Suggests that perhaps Davis has not been cut from our list after all, since we've seen no notification of that happening.

That would leave us with 6 main list spots open (31 filled, max 37 as we have 5 rookie spots filled), but still needing to leave one open to upgrade Callum Brown. So, either #31 is used on Rowston (matching bid or outright selection) to leave #57 for Brown; or we trade one of the picks (most likely #19 or #31) out on the night to get a late pick back, or we only take 3 live picks on the night plus Rowston plus Brown upgraded, and leave a rookie spot open.

 

[Hendo_21]

Hmmm, so our pick #61 has been lost. Suggests that perhaps Davis has not been cut from our list after all, since we've seen no notification of that happening.

That would leave us with 6 main list spots open (31 filled, max 37 as we have 5 rookie spots filled), but still needing to leave one open to upgrade Callum Brown. So, either #31 is used on Rowston (matching bid or outright selection) to leave #57 for Brown; or we trade one of the picks (most likely #19 or #31) out on the night to get a late pick back, or we only take 3 live picks on the night plus Rowston plus Brown upgraded, and leave a rookie spot open.

Think its a pretty high chance 19 gets traded

 

[dlanod]

Hmmm, so our pick #61 has been lost. Suggests that perhaps Davis has not been cut from our list after all, since we've seen no notification of that happening.

That would leave us with 6 main list spots open (31 filled, max 37 as we have 5 rookie spots filled), but still needing to leave one open to upgrade Callum Brown. So, either #31 is used on Rowston (matching bid or outright selection) to leave #57 for Brown; or we trade one of the picks (most likely #19 or #31) out on the night to get a late pick back, or we only take 3 live picks on the night plus Rowston plus Brown upgraded, and leave a rookie spot open.

I thought any pick used to upgrade rookies gets removed from the draft order prior to the night, which would align with seven spots with one used for Brown.

 

[Giant Strides]

I thought any pick used to upgrade rookies gets removed from the draft order prior to the night, which would align with seven spots with one used for Brown.

Chatted about that a few posts prior; there was a discussion on the D&T Board that they were kept in as they didn't actually get used chronologically until the end of the ND.

I dunno.

Either could be the case. Removed to cover Brown's upgrade, or removed because Davis hasn't been cut from the main list (as I've seen nothing that suggests he has).

EDIT. I guess that Geelong having just 2 picks does indicate that they've upgraded a rookie and consequently only have, and only have to take, 2 selections.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

 

[Giant Strides]

Extract from that story:

There is, of course, another not-so-insignificant reason Cadman appeals to GWS: he is more than happy to pack his bags for the Harbour City, unlike some of his draft peers.

Giants list boss McCartney caused a stir when he claimed recently that “we love all the players who have been talked about, but there’s some we can’t pick. That’s the reality”. Rebels talent manager Brooke Brown said GWS would “absolutely not” have that problem with Cadman. “He would relish the opportunity to move away and start an AFL career, so there’s not an ounce of worry,” Brown said. “He is the most level-headed kid you’ll meet, and he doesn’t care where he goes. He would love to be pick one, but he would also love to be pick 80 - he just wants to be on an AFL list.”

Cadman’s agent, Julian Petracca, of Hemisphere Management Group, echoes those sentiments. Throw in Cadman’s likeability, how teammates “flock to him” (as Brown witnessed), plus a competitive streak that recruiters love, and it’s easy to understand why the Giants are enamoured with him. There are no concerns on Cadman’s work ethic either, after he spent the week of the Rebels’ wildcard round match - which proved their final one of the season - rising at 4.30am each day to keep working for his electrician father. “He hates being beaten, which is the reason why clubs are attracted to him as a key forward,” Petracca said. “He is constantly working hard on his game and has a great attitude to his footy and life, and a really good understanding of what’s required to be an AFL player.”

Sounds like an absolute beauty - come on down at pick #1 Aaron Cadman!

Two blue collar kids in Cadman & Charlie Clarke sounds just what Giants need.

 

[Giant Pete]

I just don't see an avenue for him to play consistently and when I spend a top 20ish pick I want that player to have a chance to play consistently in the near future and if Buckley comes back and Leek keeps building on what he did towards the end of the year there isn't going to be room for him. Just not a big enough need atm to warrant spending really valuable draft capital on, if we don't use 30 in a Rowston bid would be fine using that to take a KPD there but anything earlier I want to spend on guys that have clear avenues to play on this team.

I don’t see Buckley and Leek competing for the same spot as someone like him.

 

[Giant Strides]

I don’t see Buckley and Leek competing for the same spot as someone like him.

Unless we play 4 talls, Aleer might take Haynes' spot, but with Taylor a guaranteed started, surely a new KPF is taking the spot that otherwise Davis or Buckley would be filling? How would you see the set-up that would allow both Buckley and Hayes?

 

[Hendo_21]

I don’t see Buckley and Leek competing for the same spot as someone like him.

So would he be competing with HH's spot? HH was one of the best in the competition when playing as a third tall, he wouldn't be able to take his spot either. Adding an extra depth KPD is fine and even better if it's someone on the youngerish side of things but that isn't something that we need to address through the use of a top 20 pick.

 

[Giant Pete]

Unless we play 4 talls, Aleer might take Haynes' spot, but with Taylor a guaranteed started, surely a new KPF is taking the spot that otherwise Davis or Buckley would be filling? How would you see the set-up that would allow both Buckley and Hayes?

I don’t think that’s the question. I think the question is who would we have that can play on forwards who are 2.02-2.04? Guys who are tall and long can be very useful stoppers if they have enough speed.

 

[Giant Pete]

So would he be competing with HH's spot? HH was one of the best in the competition when playing as a third tall, he wouldn't be able to take his spot either. Adding an extra depth KPD is fine and even better if it's someone on the youngerish side of things but that isn't something that we need to address through the use of a top 20 pick.

To be fair though most of our picks are top 20!

 

[Giant Strides]

I don’t think that’s the question. I think the question is who would we have that can play on forwards who are 2.02-2.04? Guys who are tall and long can be very useful stoppers if they have enough speed.

Well, I think it is the question because we can only play 22 in the team (OK, OK, maybe 23 next year). However, from your answer, I guess you're suggesting a "horses for courses" team selection - i.e. pick the ultra-tall KPD to replace Buckley (or whoever regularly plays 2nd tall) when required by the opposition team.

I'm not averse to that approach, and have advocated as such for years in selections such as second ruck, tall/small forward line, so no issues with defence either.

In answer to your question, that guy on our list is Keeffe ... he's just not very good at it. Otherwise, it's Sam Taylor. And while I agree that we should get someone, I just don't think it will be this year, for the simple fact that we retained Keeffe when we could have cut him. And I'm unconvinced that there's players in this draft who would actually fit the bill. As I said previously, Harry Barnett intrigues me that he possibly could do that role rather than be a ruck, with an excellent mix of height, weight, speed, endurance and marking skills, but clearly that's a pretty uninformed opinion.

 

[Andre the Giant]

I don’t think that’s the question. I think the question is who would we have that can play on forwards who are 2.02-2.04? Guys who are tall and long can be very useful stoppers if they have enough speed.

In think it’s also pertinent to note that KPD is a very physical position where players are frequently injured or playing with injury. Depth is important, with what we have there is some cover but it’s old and fragile.

Also, we are drafting a kid. That kid is not necessarily for 2023, by the time he builds up his body he might be more season 2024 or even 2025. I just like some of the options and we have the picks to use. Keeler is another tall option (not an defender) albeit more mobile ruck. He is high risk high reward but by gee I love the way he moves, apparently keen to leave Adelaide.