Training 2022 Pre Season

[Joffaboy]

Ross plays outside mid or wing where Bytel is pure inside as well. Byrnes is the type that could tip Ross out but he's already in the side. Perhaps Leo could as well but he'd have to surge to do that at this stage. I think a lot of posters are going to be disappointed when Ross plays every available game again.

Bytel has a free run at the spot that was vacated by Dunny now, Hanners may stay fit for a while and pressure his spot but he should be working his arse off to make it his own. If Hanners is only getting 20 touches and Bytel 17 and they are both on limited minutes I'm playing Bytel until he improves every day of the week though.

If either of those two are getting those numbers and still playing in the seniors than we are struggling.

Bytel has had enough games given to him now. No more using the excuse of missing a year of footy 4 years in.

If he's only getting 60% game time there's a reason for it and he should be back in the VFL.

I rate Bytels strengths, he's got a lot going for him but we have too many players that can play midfield for him to be gifted games.

Maybe Clark has issues with not chasing but that should be something he can turn around if he genuinely wants to play midfield. Time will tell.

Disagree with most of this. Bytel is being used as a run with player much like Steele was. I remember queries on Steele and his numbers when doing that.
If he is getting 17 in a run with role kicking two goals and laying 8 tackles, I am OK with that. if he is getting 17 as a pure mid, thats another story.

Bytel has had two years on the park, most of that interrupted with covid. First year was a back, two years of covid and this coming season. I reckon you are harsh in the critisism.

What is this penchant of saying young players are 'gifted' games? This is patently wrong for the vast majority of the season, only happens when the season is shot and young players need to get games into them. I doubt Dunstan would have done better that Bytel in the role he did on Mundy, in fact Dunstan would be incapable of running with a Mundy.

Someone said before Bytel has the chance to take Dunstan's position. The only reason Dunstan got a game was because of injuries. If Bytel makes it into the seniors with a fit list, he will be earning it

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah but why should he be winning more of the ball than Sinclair if they are playing the same role?

Rarely do back flankers have high contested numbers.

He's never going to have a high conetest number unless he plays in the midfield, no one does.

He did prove round one though he can win his own footy. Likewise last year when he was moved into the midfield against the Eagles.

No , but better contested ball winners still have higher averages.
Crisp 9.1
Liam Baker 8.1
Caleb Daniel 7.4

All playing a similar role, but winning more contested footy than both Sinclair and Clark.

 

[gringo2011]

Maybe this is part of the problem.

He's covering a lot of ground but he may not be especially fit hence he often appears to be laboring when he chases etc.

He does occasionally look like he lacks a bit of spring in his step which could be fatigue-related.

He runs heavy legged. He plods along rather than glides. Someone should try to work on his running technique, I think you could work on the dynamics of how he lands and accelerates and get more out of him. See if Perris can teach him to spring.

 

[AirWinmar]

Which is odd because he seems to contest okay. Watching him live it's his chasing and pace that look a bit below others.

He may have meant it in that way - what happens when he loses a contest

 

[gringo2011]

Disagree with most of this. Bytel is being used as a run with player much like Steele was. I remember queries on Steele and his numbers when doing that.
If he is getting 17 in a run with role kicking two goals and laying 8 tackles, I am OK with that. if he is getting 17 as a pure mid, thats another story.

Bytel has had two years on the park, most of that interrupted with covid. First year was a back, two years of covid and this season. I reckon you are harsh in the critisism.

What is this penchant of saying young players are 'gifted' games? This is patently wrong for the vast majority of the season, only happens when the season is shot and young players need to get games into them. I doubr Dunstan would have done better that Bytel in the role he did on Mundy, in fact Dunstan would be incapable of running with a Mundy.

Someone said before Bytel has the chance to take Dunstan's position. The only reason Dunstan got a game was because of injuries. If Bytel makes it into the seniors with a fit list, he will be earning it

I don't think he's running a tag so much as playing as the standing opponent at ball ups etc. He seems to break away once the ball has bounced. I think that might be a technique to build confidence...like if he can win a ball against the best he will realise he can be a star too stuff. Steele was a proper follow his player and don't let them get a touch type. I remember he won a centre contest against Dusty which is an achievement. Just needs to get another 10+ a game.

Hopefully he fires where ever he plays. We really need midfield depth.

 

[Joffaboy]

Bytel's only played 11 games over 50% TOG though. 16 all up. He's not had heaps of senior experience and if they think he has a future....which we have to hope because there aren't a heap of others coming through, then we at some point probably have to invest some game time into him. I agree with time on the list though, if he doesn't fire this year he might not get another year. Plenty of others end up out after they fail to make an impact after 4 years.

But you gave Dunstan 7 uninterupped years to come good, but Bytel gets 3? Why the inconsistency?

 

[AirWinmar]

He runs heavy legged. He plods along rather than glides. Someone should try to work on his running technique, I think you could work on the dynamics of how he lands and accelerates and get more out of him. See if Perris can teach him to spring.

He definitely does look to run with heavy legs

 

[bird_man]

Disagree with most of this. Bytel is being used as a run with player much like Steele was. I remember queries on Steele and his numbers when doing that.
If he is getting 17 in a run with role kicking two goals and laying 8 tackles, I am OK with that. if he is getting 17 as a pure mid, thats another story.

Bytel has had two years on the park, most of that interrupted with covid. First year was a back, two years of covid and this coming season. I reckon you are harsh in the critisism.

What is this penchant of saying young players are 'gifted' games? This is patently wrong for the vast majority of the season, only happens when the season is shot and young players need to get games into them. I doubt Dunstan would have done better that Bytel in the role he did on Mundy, in fact Dunstan would be incapable of running with a Mundy.

Someone said before Bytel has the chance to take Dunstan's position. The only reason Dunstan got a game was because of injuries. If Bytel makes it into the seniors with a fit list, he will be earning it

If that's the case he would have held his spot last year but he wasn't able to cement a spot all year.

Clearly he's being asked to do more than just run with players. Ratten said himself that he wasn't finding enough of the footy and not running out games.

If he's kicking 2 goals every time he gets 17 touches that is a different story but he did that once.

I haven't criticised him once.

I said if he continues to only get 17 touches a game at his age he shouldn't be playing in the seniors.

I also said I'm predicting him to start getting 20 plus touches regularly next year.

 

[gringo2011]

And out of those 11 games he has managed 20 touches once.

If he starts getting 20 touches plus regularly (which is what I think will happen) then there shouldn't be an issue but he's past the point where we gift him games if he can't find the footy.

Playing in the VFL won't hurt him anymore than playing 50% in the AFL

Doesn't seem right to be hard on Clark and easy on Bytel considering Bytel will be the same age as Clark was this year.

Alright lets say Hanners gets 22 and Bytel gets 20 then. I would rather sacrifice the now for the future at that point. Hanners might get a handful of good games out in the next year or two but that will be it and it's unlikely that after 5 years of injury he's going to turn back time. He's handy injury cover going into finals if he stays fit and he can add some leadership but it's like spending money on a car that you know is ****ed. Sometimes you just need to upgrade and stop wasting money and time.

I'm certainly not easy on Bytel. He's still a 16 game player compared to a 60 game player though. A lot of Bytel's were as a medi-sub too. Clark was a blue chip investment, I have much higher expectations of Clark based on how much I rate his ability. Bytel might make it as an upmarket Dunny but Clark is one you pin future hopes on.

 

[gringo2011]

But you gave Dunstan 7 uninterupped years to come good, but Bytel gets 3? Why the inconsistency?

I was no fan of Dunstan for most of his career, he just came good eventually and I didn't see the point of culling one of your better mids when you have a pretty bare cupboard. It's like having a s**t business and closing the doors just as it finally starts to make some money.

 

[gringo2011]

If that's the case he would have held his spot last year but he wasn't able to cement a spot all year.

Clearly he's being asked to do more than just run with players. Ratten said himself that he wasn't finding enough of the footy and not running out games.

If he's kicking 2 goals every time he gets 17 touches that is a different story but he did that once.

I haven't criticised him once.

I said if he continues to only get 17 touches a game at his age he shouldn't be playing in the seniors.

I also said I'm predicting him to start getting 20 plus touches regularly next year.

Dunstan took one of the inside spots so it should be a bit easier to get in there this coming season.

 

[bird_man]

Dunstan took one of the inside spots so it should be a bit easier to get in there this coming season.

I think if everyone was fit they were both going to miss early in the year though. Injuries helped both of them.

We don't have a lot of high end quality in the middle but it does run deep.

If everyone is fit early you'll have to perform to get a game IMO.

Byrnes will be pushing for midfield minutes, Clark should be in there more

 

[SaintsSeptember]

At this moment in time, despite having a bad couple of years. Gresham as an inside mid, is probably better than Clark or Bytel. This needs to change.

 

[BrutThough]

At this moment in time, despite having a bad couple of years. Gresham as an inside mid, is probably better than Clark or Bytel. This needs to change.

Gresh is easily better. He is a very good midfielder and thats something that we dont want to change.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Gresh is easily better. He is a very good midfielder and thats something that we dont want to change.

Its the other two i want to improve.

 

[BrutThough]

Its the other two i want to improve.

They both need too. But I wouldn't be measuring their success next year on whether they become better players than Gresh or not (injury permitting).

His last two full games, his numbers were excellent
28 disposals, 5 marks, 7 inside 50s, 5 clearances and 6 score involvements.
29 disposals, 6 marks, 10 inside 50s, 9 clearances, 5 score involvements and 1 goal.

 

[#gosaintas]

They both need too. But I wouldn't be measuring their success next year on whether they become better players than Gresh or not (injury permitting).

His last two full games, his numbers were excellent
28 disposals, 5 marks, 7 inside 50s, 5 clearances and 6 score involvements.
29 disposals, 6 marks, 10 inside 50s, 9 clearances, 5 score involvements and 1 goal.

Gresh was flying when he got hurt. Looking like an A grade mid

 

[bird_man]

Gresh has never struggled to find the footy in the middle.

It's his ball use that lets him down.

Hopefully with a good run of injury he can improve his decision making under pressure.

 

[BrutThough]

Gresh was flying when he got hurt. Looking like an A grade mid

We desperately need him to get some luck with his body again.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

But you gave Dunstan 7 uninterupped years to come good, but Bytel gets 3? Why the inconsistency?

Dunstan played most games in his first season, he had more than 20 disposals on seven occasions, he kicked 9 goals . He really never improved much and it was other issues in his game that left us unhappy.

Right now Bytel is like Robert Eddy 2008. He needs to improve, personally i think he can and will.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Gresh has never struggled to find the footy in the middle.

It's his ball use that lets him down.

Hopefully with a good run of injury he can improve his decision making under pressure.

Yep. He had that Dunstan type kicking. He’s lucky he’s got the physical attributes to kind of make up for it. I’d love him to learn his limitations or seriously improve his foot skill

 

[hayes]

I don’t think Clark needs to be a massive contested ball winner to play in the midfield. Dal Santo hovered around 7-8 CP a game but he was obviously full of class and that’s what I see Hunter being if he can get a go in there. There are plenty of examples of guys not having high contested possession numbers and playing as midfielders because they offer other things when playing there.

 

[gringo2011]

At this moment in time, despite having a bad couple of years. Gresham as an inside mid, is probably better than Clark or Bytel. This needs to change.

Gresham is very messy out of the middle. Bytel has appeal in having much better disposal. I'd really prefer Gresh up front. He's a very good mid but he's a match winner as a forward. The De Goey, Robbie Grey, Dusty role maybe.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not sure what was happening 2019.
But that was Jade's last full season and he had around 80 clangers for the year, Ross was similar.
Ironically Dunstan only had 42 that season.

Interestingly, Seb was probably tracking behind Bytel at a similar stage of his career.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep. He had that Dunstan type kicking. He’s lucky he’s got the physical attributes to kind of make up for it. I’d love him to learn his limitations or seriously improve his foot skill

I don't think you need elite disposal but if you don't have that you need to be very high production or very good at winning contests or something to off set it. Plenty of the best midfield players are messy but their impact is in the repeat contests and drive. He probably has to average high 20s as a mid if he's not going to make every kick a winner. Our tall forwards should make messy entries less problematic too.