Training 2022 Pre Season

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HunterClarksHeadband

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It is a make or break year for Long. I get the frustration about his ability to find the footy but he is one of the few players on our list that only needs a couple of touches to have a massive impact. My main concern is his brain fades, does some seriously stupid sh*t out there. Really needs to fix up his decision making and discipline.

I feel it’s all about confidence with Longy though, a move to the forward line could really be the awesome for him. Simplify his role, just pressure, hit campaigners and fly your marks (underrated aerialist) like in this highlight package.


Great video. Despite what he lacks, Longy is one of my favourites. We’re so f*cking boring as a club - I enjoy watching him be the only person to try take a hanger and also knock out every opposition player. F*ck every other club, play the kid up forward to provide some entertainment
 

mad-saint-guy

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Boys on saints tv said he was one of the real standout at training before Christmas. Think he might of had a bit of a kick up the bum last year and knows this year is make or break. Got so much talent, I hope he can get back and exceed his 2020 form

I'd say Long is probably one of the least talented players on the list but has scraped by thanks to his aggression, athleticism and surname.

Sure he can occasionally take a hanger or kick a freak goal but he lacks the talent to do fundamental things like get the ball or convert a set shot from 30m out. If he has a future it's purely as a role player - lockdown defender could be his go if he learns to stop giving away stupid free kicks, although clearly Paton is ahead of him. Doesn't hit the scoreboard enough to even be a defensive forward.
 

BrutThough

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Some seriously impressive highlights there. You forget that he can do some of those things, especially the marking.

Someone always tends to have a breakout year that no-one was expecting, so I guess Benny is as good a chance of having one of those as anyone.
Highlights have never been an issue for Long. The issue is his lowlight package would be at least double the length and producing those low lights is one of the only things he is consistent at doing.
 

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BrutThough

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It's funny that Long and Battle from the same draft year have been basically mismanaged and thrown about the place with little plan for their progression.
I still have faith in both, but can our coaches find the right use for them is a significant question mark.
I dont think Long can be put in the same category as Battle with regards to being mismanaged and thrown around. Battle has almost trained a new role every pre season and then once the season comes, his role hasn't been set week-to-week either.

Long stayed consistently as a forward for his first 3 seasons and then only moved to defence in his 4th year, where he consistently played the entire season. There was also no plans for him to be moved forward in 2021 - last minute move after JB withdrew from the Richmond game minutes before running out and Long just played better there than he had all season so then stayed for the remaining games.
 

pebblesofsand

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Ben Long has talent but his problem is straightforward.

59 games - highest possession count - 18
 

CaptainRisky

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Jeez man he looks slim in the photo. Maybe his weight has been an issue..? I definitely think his fitness has been an issue.

He's hardly overrated, he seems to trigger some supporters (IE you) but he's a fringe player that could come good a la DMac. Don't see the harm in trying to garner some excitement about a guy that has shown glimpses in the past. His skills are better than most on our list, he can take a speccy, he's hard as a cats head. He has the tools to make it.
Slim Ha Ha , anyway he doesn't trigger me at all , I have hardly ever mentioned the bloke on here and if you think he will transform into a best 22 well that's fine I don't.
With the recent talent we have bought into the club his days are numbered IMO
 

ScrappyDo

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I dont think Long can be put in the same category as Battle with regards to being mismanaged and thrown around. Battle has almost trained a new role every pre season and then once the season comes, his role hasn't been set week-to-week either.

Long stayed consistently as a forward for his first 3 seasons and then only moved to defence in his 4th year, where he consistently played the entire season. There was also no plans for him to be moved forward in 2021 - last minute move after JB withdrew from the Richmond game minutes before running out and Long just played better there than he had all season so then stayed for the remaining games.
Long was a defender all through juniors but for one or two games in his draft year. It so happened that he scored lots of goals in one game (5 or 6 IIRC) but most of them were uncontested cheapies. Trout, bring a ******* idiot with the instruction to go find the next Cyril, calls him early and a VFL defender was turned AFL forward off of basically nothing. I call that some genuine mismanagement from the start. Talk about setting a kid up to fail. And he had Richo for a coach FFS.

I don't disagree for a second that he needs to improve, but he was absolutely mismanaged though not so bad as Batts as you say.

Personally I think he gets a bad rap. He doesn't look to me like he's a forward, but he has some rare qualities that you don't chuck away lightly.
As I said, I think it's on the coaches to work him out. That might take a season in VFL or whatever.
 

bergholt

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Long was a defender all through juniors but for one or two games in his draft year. It so happened that he scored lots of goals in one game (5 or 6 IIRC) but most of them were uncontested cheapies. Trout, bring a ******* idiot with the instruction to go find the next Cyril, calls him early and a VFL defender was turned AFL forward off of basically nothing. I call that some genuine mismanagement from the start. Talk about setting a kid up to fail. And he had Richo for a coach FFS.

I don't disagree for a second that he needs to improve, but he was absolutely mismanaged though not so bad as Batts as you say.

Personally I think he gets a bad rap. He doesn't look to me like he's a forward, but he has some rare qualities that you don't chuck away lightly.
As I said, I think it's on the coaches to work him out. That might take a season in VFL or whatever.

He's had plenty of time in defence as BT says. Agree he's probably not a forward but I also doubt he has the quality to be a small back at AFL level. Not quite good enough on his man, not quite good enough zoning off, not quite good enough rebounding. Hopefully he can prove me wrong though!
 

lewdogs

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Ben Long has talent but his problem is straightforward.

59 games - highest possession count - 18
Totally agree. It also shows where his focus needs to be. If he could average 20-odd a game as a forward he could be damaging.
 

BrutThough

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Long was a defender all through juniors but for one or two games in his draft year. It so happened that he scored lots of goals in one game (5 or 6 IIRC) but most of them were uncontested cheapies. Trout, bring a ******* idiot with the instruction to go find the next Cyril, calls him early and a VFL defender was turned AFL forward off of basically nothing. I call that some genuine mismanagement from the start. Talk about setting a kid up to fail. And he had Richo for a coach FFS.

I don't disagree for a second that he needs to improve, but he was absolutely mismanaged though not so bad as Batts as you say.

Personally I think he gets a bad rap. He doesn't look to me like he's a forward, but he has some rare qualities that you don't chuck away lightly.
As I said, I think it's on the coaches to work him out. That might take a season in VFL or whatever.
And we drafted him based off his performances as a forward. Players get drafted because of a few qualities they have and then play different positions at AFL level all the time. Thats not setting someone up to fail or mismanagement to develop and play them in a different position to where they played in juniors/pre draft. And if they cant adapt and learn beyond that 1 role, then AFL Football is not for them.

Long was given plenty of opportunities at AFL level in one position for 3 seasons before then being given a 2nd opportunity to settle in a different position. He hasn't consistently take those chances he got under either coaching group. That's on him just not being consistently good enough.
 

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ScrappyDo

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He's had plenty of time in defence as BT says. Agree he's probably not a forward but I also doubt he has the quality to be a small back at AFL level. Not quite good enough on his man, not quite good enough zoning off, not quite good enough rebounding. Hopefully he can prove me wrong though!
I don't think we here can determine who has had "plenty of time" or not. Take a look at how long it took Dmac to come good.
On that logic Dmac had plenty of time as a defender and so was no good. Luckily he was given a change in roll that suited his abilities, but the key factor is that the change also suited his psychology.
I don't know what it's gonna take with Longy. Maybe he's just not good enough, maybe he's just thick. But at this point he needs some inspired change in direction and I think it's the responsibility of the coaches to try something.
 

lewdogs

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Slim Ha Ha , anyway he doesn't trigger me at all , I have hardly ever mentioned the bloke on here and if you think he will transform into a best 22 well that's fine I don't.
With the recent talent we have bought into the club his days are numbered IMO
Well he was a best 22 player only 12 months ago. 2021 was a shocking year for him but he was very mismanaged including being way overused as the sub. Despite that he actually played some good footy at the end of the year as a forward, which is where I think he'll play this year and I think he will probably be best 22 as a forward at the start of this season.
 

ScrappyDo

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And we drafted him based off his performances as a forward. Players get drafted because of a few qualities they have and then play different positions at AFL level all the time. Thats not setting someone up to fail or mismanagement to develop and play them in a different position to where they played in juniors/pre draft. And if they cant adapt and learn beyond that 1 role, then AFL Football is not for them.

Long was given plenty of opportunities at AFL level in one position for 3 seasons before then being given a 2nd opportunity to settle in a different position. He hasn't consistently take those chances he got under either coaching group. That's on him just not being consistently good enough.
I'm not sure what your point is. I've reiterated in every post that he's not been good enough.

Are we disagreeing between your opinion that everything is obviously %100 Ben's fault and he's basically dog meat now, and my opinion that it's probably a mixture of things and they should try and make it work? Coz I really don't care about that kind of discussion. My OP was about being progressive and hoping the situation can improve somehow. If you want to crap on players in January could you start a thread for it so I can avoid it please.
 

gringo2011

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It is a make or break year for Long. I get the frustration about his ability to find the footy but he is one of the few players on our list that only needs a couple of touches to have a massive impact. My main concern is his brain fades, does some seriously stupid sh*t out there. Really needs to fix up his decision making and discipline.

I feel it’s all about confidence with Longy though, a move to the forward line could really be the awesome for him. Simplify his role, just pressure, hit campaigners and fly your marks (underrated aerialist) like in this highlight package.



I love the best of him, if he ever gets consistency he has talent to burn and his brutality is a massive plus. I can't help loving his nasty streak, in a sea of beige he's a bit of something different. I still have a bit of a pining for the old days of tough warrior bogans giving each other head trauma.
 

BrutThough

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I'm not sure what your point is. I've reiterated in every post that he's not been good enough.

Are we disagreeing between your opinion that everything is obviously %100 Ben's fault and he's basically dog meat now, and my opinion that it's probably a mixture of things and they should try and make it work? Coz I really don't care about that kind of discussion. My OP was about being progressive and hoping the situation can improve somehow. If you want to crap on players in January could you start a thread for it so I can avoid it please.
No, I'm just disagreeing with your response that Long has been set up to fail by the coaches by being played as a forward. While he played defence in the VFL, it was his performances as a forward which got him drafted. Playing him in that position for his first 3 years wasn't mismanagement. Nor was moving him to the backline after his failed 3 years as a forward. Stating more responsibility needs to be placed on Long for his middling career rather than blaming the coaches like your post was doing is hardly crapping on him.

Fact is, he has had more disappointing performances than goods performances lately. And if he doesn't turn it around in his 6th year, it is extremely unlikely he will make it to a 7th. Those types of criticisms are handed out to certain players all the time on here. No need to get on your high horse because it's someone you like instead of someone else.
 

Sun Ra

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I love the best of him, if he ever gets consistency he has talent to burn and his brutality is a massive plus. I can't help loving his nasty streak, in a sea of beige he's a bit of something different. I still have a bit of a pining for the old days of tough warrior bogans giving each other head trauma.
A freight train hip and shoulder to the body, minus the head, can still seriously shake someone up. I still recall breaking an
opponent's collarbone (30 years ago) with some satisfaction as we were both trying to flatten each other.
 

Yawkey way

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Well he was a best 22 player only 12 months ago. 2021 was a shocking year for him but he was very mismanaged including being way overused as the sub. Despite that he actually played some good footy at the end of the year as a forward, which is where I think he'll play this year and I think he will probably be best 22 as a forward at the start of this season.
I think he’ll start at sandy as he’s clearly not best 22 and is odds on to be delisted at the end of the season.

I just can’t see how he gets a start other than injuries, butler, Gresham, Higgins and billings moving forward this year. Then there’s the fact that he’s never really set the world on fire at sandy. He’s courageous and appears to have good skills but not being able to find the ball and having a generally poor football IQ have killed him imo.

Lets be honest long is very lucky he was contracted and lonie wasn’t or he’d probably have already been delisted. I always hope players prove me wrong and he has another season but I don’t see it.
 

CaptainRisky

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Well he was a best 22 player only 12 months ago. 2021 was a shocking year for him but he was very mismanaged including being way overused as the sub. Despite that he actually played some good footy at the end of the year as a forward, which is where I think he'll play this year and I think he will probably be best 22 as a forward at the start of this season.
So how about you tell me who's spot he is taking up forward ?
Mismanaged ,,,, its not mismanagement that he cant find the ball, that's his issue
 

ScrappyDo

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No, I'm just disagreeing with your response that Long has been set up to fail by the coaches by being played as a forward. While he played defence in the VFL, it was his performances as a forward which got him drafted. Playing him in that position for his first 3 years wasn't mismanagement. Nor was moving him to the backline after his failed 3 years as a forward. Stating more responsibility needs to be placed on Long for his middling career rather than blaming the coaches like your post was doing is hardly crapping on him.

Fact is, he has had more disappointing performances than goods performances lately. And if he doesn't turn it around in his 6th year, it is extremely unlikely he will make it to a 7th. Those types of criticisms are handed out to certain players all the time on here. No need to get on your high horse because it's someone you like instead of someone else.
Well Seb Ross can go EAD as far as I'm concerned, but even I'm not gonna crap on him in January.
You want to claim that you know what Longy's problem is and how he just needs to have a good hard look at himself, then you're welcome to that opinion. Personally I don't think that's a very enlightened point of view, nor do I accept your opinions as "Fact" even if you think they are.
If it so happens that his career ends after this season then we can all say that perhaps he simply wasn't good enough, but until that time it remains the responsibility of both Ben AND THE COACHES to derive the maximum output. Your 1 size fits all policy is long outdated.
 

Saintbloke

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I love the best of him, if he ever gets consistency he has talent to burn and his brutality is a massive plus. I can't help loving his nasty streak, in a sea of beige he's a bit of something different. I still have a bit of a pining for the old days of tough warrior bogans giving each other head trauma.
I don't think he will get any better- although I would like him to
 

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