Training 2022 Pre Season

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lewdogs

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So how about you tell me who's spot he is taking up forward ?
Mismanaged ,,,, its not mismanagement that he cant find the ball, that's his issue
Not sure whose spot he takes, but he was in the team at the end of the year so I guess someone needs to actually take his spot at this stage.

One thing I do know is that he can be a point of difference. And I totally agree with you that he needs to find more of the ball but if he does I think he can be a very good player for us.

Look at a guy like Tom Sparrow from Melbourne as a reference point. Such a good player for them this year.
 

hangdog

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We would've ruined Parfitt somehow
The picks immediately after Long...

26. Brandon Parfitt
27. Zac Fisher
28. Patrick Lipinski
29. Shai Bolton

I'd only take long ahead of Fisher in that group. And Parfitt, Lipinski and Bolton and that far ahead it's not funny.

I love having Long on the list. His best qualities are rare. He's just so inconsistent and makes dumb decisions. I really hope he becomes a best 22 player.

His snap from 45m on the boundary against GWS is one of my favourite memories from the last 10 years. He's the ultimate d!cktease at the moment! And I desperately want him to prove me wrong.
 

gringo2011

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I don't think he will get any better- although I would like him to


While he's listed there's hope. Just hope with some young indigenous boys around him he steps up as a bit of a cultural leader. Last year was his worst year with nothing seeming to get going and lots of suspensions. He's handy even as depth but I',m hoping he gets really motivated to keep focussed for a full season. He should watch what DMac did to revive a stalling career. Dunstan also had his best season after being stung into action.
 

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gringo2011

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I saw this on SS. Windy sounding promising and good news on Hayes.



by Saintmike65
Training was held at an oval in Turner St. Highett.
There were about 26-30 players training, with below players impressive...starting with the new players:

Windhager - has the build of a 25 year old, AFL ready, such a good mover, balanced and confident...will be a powerful player for many years!
Hayes - Good size, likely a Jason Blake mark 2, smart and dependable...great hands and accurate kick for goal & in general play...looks assured and not at all out of his depth, at 24 a ready made.
Peris - Very quick and agile as you'd expect but also a brilliant tackler, despite his diminutive size...uses the ball well and looks a likely type down the track.
Kyle - Very light frame but a nice mover in traffic, skilled & seems a confident young man, not daunted at all!
Owens - Nothing flashy about him but covers the ground well, and was able to keep pace with the best runners in the pack when running laps...neat skills and naturally competitive nature by the look of him...Like Windhager, a mature frame is ready to go!
Wanganeen- Milera didn't train.

Of the players that missed a fair chunk of footy last year, Marshall and Battle look in great shape and were super impressive on the track, with Battle covering the ground the best I've seen him, foot skills also noticeable either foot.
Gresham also looked very good, with his ball use by foot better than I remember...no up and unders!
Jones looked very sharp & no clangers by foot!!
Paton looked good, with his dual sided foot skills on show at various times. Ryder also looks fit but on the downside, Hannebery ran laps with Dean Kent, an all too familiar sight.

In one of the half ground drills, interesting matchups with Paton on Sharman, Battle on Membury Wilkie on King, and Webster on Butler...later on, Hayes was up against Paton.
When the rain came, I was impressed with Hayes and Sharman's clean overhead marking with the greasy ball.
 

BrutThough

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I saw this on SS. Windy sounding promising and good news on Hayes.



by Saintmike65
Training was held at an oval in Turner St. Highett.
There were about 26-30 players training, with below players impressive...starting with the new players:

Windhager - has the build of a 25 year old, AFL ready, such a good mover, balanced and confident...will be a powerful player for many years!
Hayes - Good size, likely a Jason Blake mark 2, smart and dependable...great hands and accurate kick for goal & in general play...looks assured and not at all out of his depth, at 24 a ready made.
Peris - Very quick and agile as you'd expect but also a brilliant tackler, despite his diminutive size...uses the ball well and looks a likely type down the track.
Kyle - Very light frame but a nice mover in traffic, skilled & seems a confident young man, not daunted at all!
Owens - Nothing flashy about him but covers the ground well, and was able to keep pace with the best runners in the pack when running laps...neat skills and naturally competitive nature by the look of him...Like Windhager, a mature frame is ready to go!
Wanganeen- Milera didn't train.

Of the players that missed a fair chunk of footy last year, Marshall and Battle look in great shape and were super impressive on the track, with Battle covering the ground the best I've seen him, foot skills also noticeable either foot.
Gresham also looked very good, with his ball use by foot better than I remember...no up and unders!
Jones looked very sharp & no clangers by foot!!
Paton looked good, with his dual sided foot skills on show at various times. Ryder also looks fit but on the downside, Hannebery ran laps with Dean Kent, an all too familiar sight.

In one of the half ground drills, interesting matchups with Paton on Sharman, Battle on Membury Wilkie on King, and Webster on Butler...later on, Hayes was up against Paton.
When the rain came, I was impressed with Hayes and Sharman's clean overhead marking with the greasy ball.
Great to hear Windy is training after his back injury. Sounds like Hayes has been training well and you'd expect him to be given a list spot soon.

Not too concerning at this stage having Hanners run laps. At this time of the year, having on the track at any capacity is an improvement given his history.
 

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While he's listed there's hope. Just hope with some young indigenous boys around him he steps up as a bit of a cultural leader. Last year was his worst year with nothing seeming to get going and lots of suspensions. He's handy even as depth but I',m hoping he gets really motivated to keep focussed for a full season. He should watch what DMac did to revive a stalling career. Dunstan also had his best season after being stung into action.
If Long doesn't get a game it just shows how strong our squad is.
We no have a side that IF they get it together this year there is no reason we can't win the flag - you may laugh but after last year a few egos were battered and we have the talent to show anyone up.

Steele - has proved he is elite
Crouch - is a proven ball winner and former club best and fairest who if he has a good can easily pickup 30 touches a game
Hill - same goes with Hill , however after all the negative comments about the guy it just might bring the best out of him this year.
Marshall - he can get back to the form he showed in his first year as a ruck he is a game winner
King - no doubt he will be improved again this season so watch out
Membery - proven performer who can really hurt teams
Gresham - has yet to really show his best but has all the natural ability to cut teams up
Billings - maybe about ho hum but if he can get a average 25 touches a game we will be winning.
Sinclair - has found his position and he he backs it up this year he will be close to one of the best halfbacks in the game
Howard - a guinuine leader who has carried the burden of taking the best forward most weeks and gets it done.
Paton - not many people realize how good this kid is - not playing for a year - he has the determination to beat his player every week.
Higgins - showed last year he can pick up 25 touches as a half forward , when was the last time we have had a player like that.
Bulter - had a poor year last year , expect that to be a blip he will be damaging as the first year he played and only a 1 year contract.
Jones - has proved he can be outstanding when right and if he can stay fit and on the park he will be playing a staring role.
Webster - proven defender who is just reliable
Wilkie - does his job week in week out / just a solid player
Ryder - just a star ruckman
Ross - if a former best and fairest can't get a starting spot you know we will be tough to beat.

That's 18 players

////////

These guys have all played seniors and will be fighting for those last 4 spot's
and I'm not looking at the newbies.

Hannerbery
Hunter Clark
Coffield
Highmore
Sharman
Battle
McKenzie
Connolly
Byrne
Wood
Bytel
Long
Kent
Geary

Of course it can all come crashing down , but by the looks the team has got it together and will be out to prove they can be grand finalist's.
 

Murraj1966

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The picks immediately after Long...

26. Brandon Parfitt
27. Zac Fisher
28. Patrick Lipinski
29. Shai Bolton

I'd only take long ahead of Fisher in that group. And Parfitt, Lipinski and Bolton and that far ahead it's not funny.

I love having Long on the list. His best qualities are rare. He's just so inconsistent and makes dumb decisions. I really hope he becomes a best 22 player.

His snap from 45m on the boundary against GWS is one of my favourite memories from the last 10 years. He's the ultimate d!cktease at the moment! And I desperately want him to prove me wrong.

That's my point though.

Lipinski goes at pick 25 to us and he's a Luke Dunstan Mk III while Ben Long is an aggressive 2 goal a game small forward for the dogs ala Cyril Rioli

The most consistent failing of ours since 2008-odd is the lack of players making the Leigh Montagna style next step from bit-part player to locked in best 22
 

Diehard Saint

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Great to hear Windy is training after his back injury. Sounds like Hayes has been training well and you'd expect him to be given a list spot soon.

Not too concerning at this stage having Hanners run laps. At this time of the year, having on the track at any capacity is an improvement given his history.
Going to sound awful, but honestly I’d rather Hanners be the one running laps than any of the players we really need to lift this season.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t want to be relying on him playing to make the team better this year. We have to move past him.
 

gringo2011

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That's my point though.

Lipinski goes at pick 25 to us and he's a Luke Dunstan Mk III while Ben Long is an aggressive 2 goal a game small forward for the dogs ala Cyril Rioli

The most consistent failing of ours since 2008-odd is the lack of players making the Leigh Montagna style next step from bit-part player to locked in best 22


I used to believe in development holding players back but from what I've seen at multiple clubs the bulk of development is still drill work which is pretty much the same anywhere and fitness stuff....which again is similar across most clubs but with the occasional club that makes it a huge priority to jump others....which occasionally has the effect of breaking down soft tissues in the players.

I think Richo was coaching for his coaching life so he was playing for now rather than an eye on the future so ran his engine red line rather than build confidence in young guys etc but then that idea of playing kids against men for development can go either way as well. I think it's probably partially bad luck in that guys like Koby and Paddy broke down, poor drafting and poor list management based around over estimating where we were at. We seemed to have a very settled best 22 without any reason to think that it was going to move us forward substantially.

It would be nice if every kid did a Joey but statistics show that more players fail than succeed by a huge margin. The Dogs don't have big money but just by taking picks straight after ours they seemed to be able to discover stars while we found limited journeymen.
 
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austinnn

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With Covid, players taking time off for mental health issues and childbirth (no axe-grinding, just stating facts) and plenty of injuries occurring, thinking about just a best 22 is outdated: our squad depth has never been more important, and one of our coaches' biggest headaches is getting these fringe players to be fully mentally and physically match-fit when they are not regular contributors.

Ben Long is tough, can make oppo players nervous, can fly for marks, is handy at both ends and is quite quick. On top of his playing skills, he's seemingly comfortable with a mentoring role with the younger indigenous players, particularly Jack Peris, and has taken many teammates both indigenous and non-indigenous up to his NT stomping ground. He is a bit different from the cookie cutter player and if he can get all those errors and brain fades that plagued his last season out of his game, I think you'll be cheering his name as fiercely as we supported the now legendary Dan McKenzie and Luke Dunstan in 2021.

Flawed but exciting, he has enough worth to us as a player and a man to really B Long at St Kilda.
 

ScrappyDo

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I used to believe in development holding players back but from what I've seen at multiple clubs the bulk of development is still drill work which is pretty much the same anywhere and fitness stuff....which again is similar across most clubs but with the occasional club that makes it a huge priority to jump others....which occasionally has the effect of breaking down soft tissues in the players.

I think Richo was coaching for his coaching life so he was playing for now rather than an eye on the future so ran his engine red line rather than build confidence in young guys etc but then that idea of playing kids against men for development can go either way as well. I think it's probably partially bad luck in that guys like Koby and Paddy broke down, poor drafting and poor list management based around over estimating where we were at. We seemed to have a very settled best 22 without any reason to think that it wasting to move us forward substantially.

It would be nice if every kid did a Joey but statistics show that more players fail than succeed by a huge margin. The Dogs don't have big money but just by taking picks straight after ours they seemed to be able to discover stars while we found limited journeymen.
At the 10:30 mark in this video is an abject display of our player development v actual player development.

 

SaintsSeptember

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I used to believe in development holding players back but from what I've seen at multiple clubs the bulk of development is still drill work which is pretty much the same anywhere and fitness stuff....which again is similar across most clubs but with the occasional club that makes it a huge priority to jump others....which occasionally has the effect of breaking down soft tissues in the players.

I think Richo was coaching for his coaching life so he was playing for now rather than an eye on the future so ran his engine red line rather than build confidence in young guys etc but then that idea of playing kids against men for development can go either way as well. I think it's probably partially bad luck in that guys like Koby and Paddy broke down, poor drafting and poor list management based around over estimating where we were at. We seemed to have a very settled best 22 without any reason to think that it was going to move us forward substantially.

It would be nice if every kid did a Joey but statistics show that more players fail than succeed by a huge margin. The Dogs don't have big money but just by taking picks straight after ours they seemed to be able to discover stars while we found limited journeymen.

Armo and Steven were at least good enough to make our midfield solid, then we drafted Koby to further that.
We lost them all young.
 

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aussierulesrules

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I used to believe in development holding players back but from what I've seen at multiple clubs the bulk of development is still drill work which is pretty much the same anywhere and fitness stuff....which again is similar across most clubs but with the occasional club that makes it a huge priority to jump others....which occasionally has the effect of breaking down soft tissues in the players.

I think Richo was coaching for his coaching life so he was playing for now rather than an eye on the future so ran his engine red line rather than build confidence in young guys etc but then that idea of playing kids against men for development can go either way as well. I think it's probably partially bad luck in that guys like Koby and Paddy broke down, poor drafting and poor list management based around over estimating where we were at. We seemed to have a very settled best 22 without any reason to think that it wasting to move us forward substantially.

It would be nice if every kid did a Joey but statistics show that more players fail than succeed by a huge margin. The Dogs don't have big money but just by taking picks straight after ours they seemed to be able to discover stars while we found limited journeymen.
The thing that I suspect would have held the development of some up under Richo in a pretty big way his well publicised focusing too much on what they “can’t do”, rather than what they can.

Those first few years in the comp are absolutely vital to not kill the confidence and self belief they had from the juniors, and if you’ve got a guy in charge who’s focusing way too much on your weaknesses, and not enough on what you do well- that got you drafted in the first place- it’s not hard to see how it could be a confidence killer, for a young guy trying to find his feet.

It wouldn’t take much of that to see those kids starting to really doubt whether they belong at the level and if you’ve got things like injuries thrown in, it could be all over before you even know it and you’re spat out.
 

aussierulesrules

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Was also really interesting what Mick Malthouse said about us mid last season.

Said that he’d been watching us closely and that he didn’t believe our fitness was up to AFL standard, and that that being the case would make it incredibly hard for our young guys to really improve.

Getting in a new fitness boss presumably means we also didn’t think our fitness was up to scratch last season, so if we just improve that area alone this offseason we could be a significantly better team this year, with it giving those guys like King, Clark, Coffield, Higgins etc in particular much more chance to really step up their game.
 

Joffaboy

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Was also really interesting what Mick Malthouse said about us mid last season.

Said that he’d been watching us closely and that he didn’t believe our fitness was up to AFL standard, and that that being the case would make it incredibly hard for our young guys to really improve.

Getting in a new fitness boss presumably means we also didn’t think our fitness was up to scratch last season, so if we just improve that area alone this offseason we could be a significantly better team this year, with it giving those guys like King, Clark, Coffield, Higgins etc in particular much more chance to really step up their game.
Yes was mentioned that the player led standards didn't work.
Players were not up to standard and players knew this preseason would be hard.

We may not be good enough in a game but we should be fit enough to run them out.
 

gringo2011

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Was also really interesting what Mick Malthouse said about us mid last season.

Said that he’d been watching us closely and that he didn’t believe our fitness was up to AFL standard, and that that being the case would make it incredibly hard for our young guys to really improve.

Getting in a new fitness boss presumably means we also didn’t think our fitness was up to scratch last season, so if we just improve that area alone this offseason we could be a significantly better team this year, with it giving those guys like King, Clark, Coffield, Higgins etc in particular much more chance to really step up their game.


It sounds like we let the players "self manage" their own fitness programs. Not a great idea with a young list, played catch up all year.
 

gringo2011

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The thing that I suspect would have held the development of some up under Richo in a pretty big way his well publicised focusing too much on what they “can’t do”, rather than what they can.

Those first few years in the comp are absolutely vital to not kill the confidence and self belief they had from the juniors, and if you’ve got a guy in charge who’s focusing way too much on your weaknesses, and not enough on what you do well- that got you drafted in the first place- it’s not hard to see how it could be a confidence killer, for a young guy trying to find his feet.

It wouldn’t take much of that to see those kids starting to really doubt whether they belong at the level and if you’ve got things like injuries thrown in, it could be all over before you even know it and you’re spat out.


That's what I meant by Richo playing for his career instead of building guys for a point in the future. He never tried to build up kids, it was all about bleeding every drop that week so that he could keep a grip on his job. He was a pretty limited senior coach but I don't think he had much to work with. Lethlean has opened the purse strings since he was gone so there must be some sour grapes there. Richo ran in an era of ultra austerity where we didn't seem to want to invest in footy department stuff.
 

Saint_Dos

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I saw this on SS. Windy sounding promising and good news on Hayes.



by Saintmike65
Training was held at an oval in Turner St. Highett.
There were about 26-30 players training, with below players impressive...starting with the new players:

Windhager - has the build of a 25 year old, AFL ready, such a good mover, balanced and confident...will be a powerful player for many years!
Hayes - Good size, likely a Jason Blake mark 2, smart and dependable...great hands and accurate kick for goal & in general play...looks assured and not at all out of his depth, at 24 a ready made.
Peris - Very quick and agile as you'd expect but also a brilliant tackler, despite his diminutive size...uses the ball well and looks a likely type down the track.
Kyle - Very light frame but a nice mover in traffic, skilled & seems a confident young man, not daunted at all!
Owens - Nothing flashy about him but covers the ground well, and was able to keep pace with the best runners in the pack when running laps...neat skills and naturally competitive nature by the look of him...Like Windhager, a mature frame is ready to go!
Wanganeen- Milera didn't train.

Of the players that missed a fair chunk of footy last year, Marshall and Battle look in great shape and were super impressive on the track, with Battle covering the ground the best I've seen him, foot skills also noticeable either foot.
Gresham also looked very good, with his ball use by foot better than I remember...no up and unders!
Jones looked very sharp & no clangers by foot!!
Paton looked good, with his dual sided foot skills on show at various times. Ryder also looks fit but on the downside, Hannebery ran laps with Dean Kent, an all too familiar sight.

In one of the half ground drills, interesting matchups with Paton on Sharman, Battle on Membury Wilkie on King, and Webster on Butler...later on, Hayes was up against Paton.
When the rain came, I was impressed with Hayes and Sharman's clean overhead marking with the greasy ball.
Great write up. Thanks a lot!
Interesting Paton doing some work on the bigger blokes...

Where is Windhager & Owens training? With the mids or fwds?

EDIT: Apologies just realised was fwd'ing info from another site
 
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botts

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I saw this on SS. Windy sounding promising and good news on Hayes.



by Saintmike65
Training was held at an oval in Turner St. Highett.
There were about 26-30 players training, with below players impressive...starting with the new players:

Windhager - has the build of a 25 year old, AFL ready, such a good mover, balanced and confident...will be a powerful player for many years!
Hayes - Good size, likely a Jason Blake mark 2, smart and dependable...great hands and accurate kick for goal & in general play...looks assured and not at all out of his depth, at 24 a ready made.
Peris - Very quick and agile as you'd expect but also a brilliant tackler, despite his diminutive size...uses the ball well and looks a likely type down the track.
Kyle - Very light frame but a nice mover in traffic, skilled & seems a confident young man, not daunted at all!
Owens - Nothing flashy about him but covers the ground well, and was able to keep pace with the best runners in the pack when running laps...neat skills and naturally competitive nature by the look of him...Like Windhager, a mature frame is ready to go!
Wanganeen- Milera didn't train.

Of the players that missed a fair chunk of footy last year, Marshall and Battle look in great shape and were super impressive on the track, with Battle covering the ground the best I've seen him, foot skills also noticeable either foot.
Gresham also looked very good, with his ball use by foot better than I remember...no up and unders!
Jones looked very sharp & no clangers by foot!!
Paton looked good, with his dual sided foot skills on show at various times. Ryder also looks fit but on the downside, Hannebery ran laps with Dean Kent, an all too familiar sight.

In one of the half ground drills, interesting matchups with Paton on Sharman, Battle on Membury Wilkie on King, and Webster on Butler...later on, Hayes was up against Paton.
When the rain came, I was impressed with Hayes and Sharman's clean overhead marking with the greasy ball.
Well I’m gonna have to change my undies after this
 

AirWinmar

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I used to believe in development holding players back but from what I've seen at multiple clubs the bulk of development is still drill work which is pretty much the same anywhere and fitness stuff....which again is similar across most clubs but with the occasional club that makes it a huge priority to jump others....which occasionally has the effect of breaking down soft tissues in the players.

I think Richo was coaching for his coaching life so he was playing for now rather than an eye on the future so ran his engine red line rather than build confidence in young guys etc but then that idea of playing kids against men for development can go either way as well. I think it's probably partially bad luck in that guys like Koby and Paddy broke down, poor drafting and poor list management based around over estimating where we were at. We seemed to have a very settled best 22 without any reason to think that it was going to move us forward substantially.

It would be nice if every kid did a Joey but statistics show that more players fail than succeed by a huge margin. The Dogs don't have big money but just by taking picks straight after ours they seemed to be able to discover stars while we found limited journeymen.
I feel like not having many older gun leaders probably held back the development of some of our players. I'd say of the senior players that make young players from drafts 2013-2016 walk a bit taller we had Roo (2017), Joey (2017) and Armo (2019).
 

Diehard Saint

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The thing that I suspect would have held the development of some up under Richo in a pretty big way his well publicised focusing too much on what they “can’t do”, rather than what they can.

Those first few years in the comp are absolutely vital to not kill the confidence and self belief they had from the juniors, and if you’ve got a guy in charge who’s focusing way too much on your weaknesses, and not enough on what you do well- that got you drafted in the first place- it’s not hard to see how it could be a confidence killer, for a young guy trying to find his feet.

It wouldn’t take much of that to see those kids starting to really doubt whether they belong at the level and if you’ve got things like injuries thrown in, it could be all over before you even know it and you’re spat out.

Funny, because he was touted as such a brilliant development man at Port and the first year he left they crashed; they were bemoaning the fact that he was the success behind Hinkley. What the hell happened….the minute he came to us he turned into a lemon.
 

gringo2011

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Funny, because he was touted as such a brilliant development man at Port and the first year he left they crashed; they were bemoaning the fact that he was the success behind Hinkley. What the hell happened….the minute he came to us he turned into a lemon.

I think that there was pressure to play finals while Rooney was still there and by the time that that was no longer possible he kept promising finals when the youth got enough games into them. He was playing for his job and we really needed a Port Richo for our Richo and a gun recruiter.
 

tomjoad

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Richo came to us as a guy renowned for development. The whole point was to rebuild under the watchful eyes of guys like Roo, Lenny, Joey, Fisher, Dempster, and Gilbert, and the established talent that we thought would further progress from guys like Stuv and Armo. We got screwed by a few factors...the drafts were all shot, the kids we got weren't great (or hopelessly unlucky with injury) The old heads in leadership weren't great at gelling the group together, our coaching staff were middling at best, we were broke and coasting under the hard state of AFL house. All of this was compounded by idiots on the way out like Pelchen, and exasperated by a clown like Trout in charge of recruitment. These things conspired against a bloke like Richo...but it doesn't exempt him from being found out as a bad coach. He was a lamb to the slaughter...but he was also incredibly basic, hopelessly stubborn in his game day approach, and generally a bit sh*t.
 

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