Autopsy 2022 Rd 21 Last quarter surge masks woeful performance

[FRUMPY]

I can already see the photos from next year's pre-season training. Never looked so fit, injuries finally behind him, first injury free pre-season in several years, looking forward to repaying the club's faith.......kill me.

Funny they never mention:
'he can finally hit a target by hand/foot'
'he can finally tackle the man and not just grab a jumper's
'he can finally chase's
'he can finally kick a drop punt'
'he no longer panics'

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[luke livingston seagull]

Don’t get me wrong, Dow had a shocker today and pulled out of a couple of important contests. But I also don’t understand why you would bring him in to the side for him to only attend 9 out of 33 centre bounces. Either back him in and let him play to his strengths or don’t play him at all. Spent more than half of the first quarter on the bench and then looked completely shot of confidence. Bizarre.

 

[Gethelred]

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the special level of stupidity that is Cripps' hit on Ah Chee? Utterly unnecessary in the context of the game, and likely to be a 2 week suspension (barring AFL shenanigans to keep him in for the round 23 blockbuster/train wreck).

If, as seems likely, we complete the mother of all chokes and miss finals by losing to Collingwood in the last match of the season after being 10-4 at the bye, there should be a reckoning. And the 'captain' of the sinking ship, who managed to get himself suspended in a misguided act of aggression in a blowout loss, surely has to wear the brunt of that.

To say it is one of the dumbest things I've seen a Carlton player do - well, it actually might not be because we're an absolute rabble of a club and have been for two decades... but given the context and how much is riding on the last two weeks, it is up there with Judd's pressure points and Fev's brownlow antics for me (and lets not forget how badly those two events combined to tank our last 'rebuild').

You know, I don't think I've seen you say a positive word, ever. Michael Jezz has plumbed the depths over the past ten years, but they've been able to enjoy the footy at points, see positives and note them.

You, I've not seen it. You churn out long, eloquent, meaningful analysis that says similar amounts of "not good enough" , "terrible" , "weak". You empathise with Collingwood, Richmond and Essendon supporters on the main board, liking their posts and agreeing with them when they troll our club. You provide them rhetorical ammo, as though to say, "I'm one of the good ones."

I get why someone could feel that way, but I don't see how you could remain motivated to continue doing so for years on end. If it were me, I'd stop watching the game if that was how I felt. I'd certainly not stoop to behaving obsequiously, as you have at times on the main board.

But do me a favour, yeah? Don't do it this week.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I hope you’re right.
But Voss, Hodge, Mathews and Brown…
Not sure their opinions are inline with the MRO

Agree. I expect the MRO will put him out and we will win on appeal.

 

[FRUMPY]

Don’t get me wrong, Dow had a shocker today and pulled out of a couple of important contests. But I also don’t understand why you would bring him in to the side for him to only attend 9 out of 33 centre bounces. Either back him in and let him play to his strengths or don’t play him at all. Spent more than half of the first quarter on the bench and then looked completely shot of confidence. Bizarre.

Seems to me Voss didn't really want him in the side and played him accordingly. Disappointingly dow didn't help the situation. Got a couple of centre clearances when in there though.

Voss basically went with the same 3 most for 75% of the centre bounces, leaving it to to few even when they were getting flogged in there

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JustaBattler]

Don’t get me wrong, Dow had a shocker today and pulled out of a couple of important contests. But I also don’t understand why you would bring him in to the side for him to only attend 9 out of 33 centre bounces. Either back him in and let him play to his strengths or don’t play him at all. Spent more than half of the first quarter on the bench and then looked completely shot of confidence. Bizarre.

You are right Voss knows absolutely NOTHING about what it takes to be an AFL midfield player- NOTHING!!!

 

[FRUMPY]

You are right Voss knows absolutely NOTHING about what it takes to be an AFL midfield player- NOTHING!!!

It's not what he was saying at all

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SBYM]

I've had better weekends.

Double blergh.

 

[luke livingston seagull]

You are right Voss knows absolutely NOTHING about what it takes to be an AFL midfield player- NOTHING!!!

That’s my point. If Voss has put a line through him, which I wouldn’t begrudge him for, then why play him at all. But to play him and then park him on the bench or at half forward where he is completely useless makes no sense.

 

[WalshYouLegend]

Voss lounging in the box with a smile on his face made me dead set sick in the stomach

We don't know the context of that few seconds of footage though. I know he wouldn't think it is funny his team is getting crushed but maybe resigned to the fact that what can you do at this point after trying everything and that there's still a lot of work to do to get this group where they need to be consistently.

 

[btdg]

You know, I don't think I've seen you say a positive word, ever. Michael Jezz has plumbed the depths over the past ten years, but they've been able to enjoy the footy at points, see positives and note them.

You, I've not seen it. You churn out long, eloquent, meaningful analysis that says similar amounts of "not good enough" , "terrible" , "weak". You empathise with Collingwood, Richmond and Essendon supporters on the main board, liking their posts and agreeing with them when they troll our club. You provide them rhetorical ammo, as though to say, "I'm one of the good ones."

I get why someone could feel that way, but I don't see how you could remain motivated to continue doing so for years on end. If it were me, I'd stop watching the game if that was how I felt. I'd certainly not stoop to behaving obsequiously, as you have at times on the main board.

But do me a favour, yeah? Don't do it this week.

I enjoyed plenty of the footy in the first half of the year, and I've been both positive and negative at times. I've also posted a bti on the main board but I don't think I've ever liked a trolling post, at least not on purpose. I spent a heap of time defending the club and think some aspects of our fall were badly misconstrued by others (for example I've defended Silvagni's list management quite a bit, and was in the 'we are 2 years behind Brisbane' crew defending us in that thread for a long time).

I am very optimistic about our current list, probably more so than most Carlton supporters. I genuinely think this is the most talent we've had in it's prime since the '93-'95 run, and concurrently, that's why I'm pretty disappointed and frustrated about wehre things are at. This year and last year should have been our breakthrough into competitiveness, and while injuries have played a part, I'm frustrated at how poorly other things have played out.

And bigger picture, I'm also pretty realistic about the club and where it is at. We haven't made the top 8 in a decade. We haven't made the top 4 in two decades. You could probably boil a lot of what is wrong down to 'not good enough', 'terrible' and 'weak', and maybe I could save a few words doing so.

However, I think that's also the optimist in me. I do think we are good enough. I think our performances have been terrible (relative to talent) and reflect a cultural weakness across the club. But that can change pretty quickly. I've got tickets booked against Melbourne and Collingwood because while I expect we'll probably lose (and both will be pretty miserable if that's the case) I also want to be there when it does change...

And surely you don't disagree on my comment re: Cripps. Our captain getting himself suspended for our two most important regular season games in what, 8 years? whacking an opposition bench player in a blowout loss is just utterly stupid.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Seems to me Voss didn't really want him in the side and played him accordingly. Disappointingly dow didn't help the situation. Got a couple of centre clearances when in there though.

Voss basically went with the same 3 most for 75% of the centre bounces, leaving it to to few even when they were getting flogged in there

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's a chicken and egg situation.

Dow is clearly a "break in case of emergency only" in Vossy's view. Dow looks like he has the sword of Damocles hanging over his head.

Unfortunately Dow then does nothing to change that perception. A player of strong character would do whatever he could to change that perception. Paddy played a passive game.

 

[jpfalvo]

I can already see the photos from next year's pre-season training. Never looked so fit, injuries finally behind him, first injury free pre-season in several years, looking forward to repaying the club's faith.......kill me.

In general be nice if the club stopped pumping up the players, and going down marketing street.

Bit tiresome, just get these players to do the talking for the jumper on the field. Once they have achieved something of note, then consider it.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[Blue__Balls]

It's a chicken and egg situation.

Dow is clearly a "break in case of emergency only" in Vossy's view. Dow looks like he has the sword of Damocles hanging over his head.

Unfortunately Dow then does nothing to change that perception. A player of strong character would do whatever he could to change that perception. Paddy played a passive game.

Compare him to Rhys "I call myself Beast" Mathieson. That kid is an absolute spanner, but he gets his opportunity and he goes hell for leather at every contest. He makes mistakes, will miss the odd shot for goal, but his effort, intensity and desire to compete is absolutely unconditional.

There was some really pleasing feedback on Dow coming out of the ressies games lately. That didn't translate at all. Worst possible result for him - not only did he fail to demonstrate any improvement in his defensive game, but he also offered two fifths of * all going the other way.

 

[jpfalvo]

Don’t get me wrong, Dow had a shocker today and pulled out of a couple of important contests. But I also don’t understand why you would bring him in to the side for him to only attend 9 out of 33 centre bounces. Either back him in and let him play to his strengths or don’t play him at all. Spent more than half of the first quarter on the bench and then looked completely shot of confidence. Bizarre.

Yep. Match Committee has been making bizarre decisions all year.

Selection integrity is clearly questionable.
Let alone it appears Vosswagen has favourites, which in a year learning about the list is bizarre

What about Durdin.

Shoulder injury. Subbed out last week
An enternity for any sort of injury report.

Then picked as sub. Plays and looks ok Q4.
Is this meant to be mind games?

If he is fit, you play him.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[JustaBattler]

That’s my point. If Voss has put a line through him, which I wouldn’t begrudge him for, then why play him at all. But to play him and then park him on the bench or at half forward where he is completely useless makes no sense.

What do you think the Club means when it says after every win or loss that teh Club list is far from complete - they have been saying that al year and even when the team was 8-2 W/L.

Here is what was put on display today against a genuine finals side at full strength on their home ground playing for a top4 finish:



1. Genuine battlers with some redeeming qualities that have been good enough for now and who are decent depth and break glass in emergency types

Owies
Cottrell
Lob

2. Lack basic AFL 4 quarter football ability - lisyt cloggers

Setterfield
Dow
Fisher

3. Genuine List clogger errors

Martin

4. Badly out of form for whatever reason

Docherty
McKay

5. Inexperienced but AFL quality

Durdin
Motlop

With VFL type and list cloggers no team can carry (literally half the side made up such types and expect to win against a team that has NONE.

and then you add the out of form and genuine developing ones...

Carlton has gone in to pretty much every game with 2/3rds of an AFL team all year - on a good day.

Voss has done an OUTSTANDING job and so have the star player at teh Club carrying so much baggage on their backs they have to think twice who to give the ball to - for fear of turnover # 2000 for the quarter ...

I don't know what game most people on here watch or how much thinking they actually put into things - except for bringing their personal needs and entitled expectations to the table...

What exactly did you expect Voss to do when he had to play Fisher and Dow as midfield rotations - I mean really ....one is flaky link man who looks like a player when the team is on top and the other bloke has one forward ( and very slow) gear and hasn't learned to do anything with teh ball =- like as in ANYTHING - except dish off hospital passes to get a 'disposal' stat.

FMD.

 

[Bringbackeddie]

I have been eyeing these last three games all year with a bit of concern - thinking we need to have finals locked in by then or we might struggle….

Bulldogs probably going to win their last two, so we need a win and to not get flogged in the other game.

Fingers crossed, but I’m not feeling too great about it after today.

 

[Kismet]

Missing Hewitt and Kennedy didn't help our cause today, but there seems to be an overall lack of confidence amongst the group.

We may still make the finals, and although I still think we have a quality group of players, it seems we'll be just making up the numbers.

I believe the problem at the moment is mental. Earlier games this season proved we've got the talent and grunt, but the lack of cohesion at present is bewildering.

 

[T2B_]

We may have to accept Dow as another Troy Menzel

Troy Menzel

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

2.5

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.6

5star

, though Troy undeniably had AFL ability, more pure work ethic and mental strength that were lacking.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Beautiful ground the Gabba. Close to the action you could see our deficiencies pretty easily

Got smashed on the turnovers and cut to ribbons on transition.

Also lost important CB clearance and were out tackled when it mattered.

Question putting JSOS to FB when we already had 4 sized KPD back there….

Young is an absolute liability with ball in the air and also on the ground….the guy who dominated a month or so ago is gone.

Gov had a shocker. Marchy was ok considering we conceded 100 plus points

Forward of centre we have zero confidence. Setters LOB et all butchered the footy on forward 50 when it would of been easier to take the shot FFS

Last quarter meant nothing to me personally….

Absolutely numb…last week was worse and I think it totally sucked the confidence from the group


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i thought Guv was one of our better performers bar that soft effort in the 4th.

 

[new_blue]

Truth be told….we’re flat track bullies atm and that needs to change.

 

[rp84]

Recency bias.

No way is it the most disappointing, we are still in the hunt at least.

No way you enjoyed those 2-5 win seasons more at the time than this.

We are a work in progress, but need to keep improving the list and side.

I agree but where is the midfield improvement going to come from?

View attachment 1469659
Somebody please enlighten me what this guy has done for us in four years?

We can't run, can't chase, we clearly aren't fit enough. Injuries galore, and botched rehabs. Players all seem to have mental fragility written on their foreheads.

Most expensive high performance manager in the league. What return on investment are we getting here?

But but but he got 1 or 2 players right...eventually...big ️ from some of the enlightened.

And we're apparently s**t because of a heavy training season because we weren't fit...damn the fitness guy from the last 3 years who didn't get us fit...oh wait...



If you don't laugh, you cry.

 

[Benaly28]

What do you think the Club means when it says after every win or loss that teh Club list is far from complete - they have been saying that al year and even when the team was 8-2 W/L.

Here is what was put on display today against a genuine finals side at full strength on their home ground playing for a top4 finish:



1. Genuine battlers with some redeeming qualities that have been good enough for now and who are decent depth and break glass in emergency types

Owies
Cottrell
Lob

2. Lack basic AFL 4 quarter football ability - lisyt cloggers

Setterfield
Dow
Fisher

3. Genuine List clogger errors

Martin

4. Badly out of form for whatever reason

Docherty
McKay

5. Inexperienced but AFL quality

Durdin
Motlop

With VFL type and list cloggers no team can carry (literally half the side made up such types and expect to win against a team that has NONE.

and then you add the out of form and genuine developing ones...

Carlton has gone in to pretty much every game with 2/3rds of an AFL team all year - on a good day.

Voss has done an OUTSTANDING job and so have the star player at teh Club carrying so much baggage on their backs they have to think twice who to give the ball to - for fear of turnover # 2000 for the quarter ...

I don't know what game most people on here watch or how much thinking they actually put into things - except for bringing their personal needs and entitled expectations to the table...

What exactly did you expect Voss to do when he had to play Fisher and Dow as midfield rotations - I mean really ....one is flaky link man who looks like a player when the team is on top and the other bloke has one forward ( and very slow) gear and hasn't learned to do anything with teh ball =- like as in ANYTHING - except dish off hospital passes to get a 'disposal' stat.

FMD.

Your being tough on Fisher.

17 goals 4th on our goal kicking list.Fwd/Mid very hard position.

Agree with everything else though.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Stamos]

I'll counter this with: our best 7 players (Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, McKay, Docherty, Saad, Weitering) have missed a total of 5 games between them with injury.

Huh?
You might want to count again.

 

[Benaly28]

We are void of confidence.The last quarter when the shackles were released and were just going for it is how we need to play a bit like the pies do.You’d rather play like that than the way we are at the moment.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app