VFL 2022 Reserves

[Dubai Quacker]

Bell has played as a defensive forward. Clarke as a midfielder. Their stats can’t be compared.

But that isn’t the point. The point is we have had a charmed run with injuries this year. We have a large group of very young recruits who will need time. They don’t have the miles in their legs (yet) to play regular senior football.

Previously we have advocated for the delisting of Clarke (me), Fox and Reid (not me) and others.

You need depth. And by that I mean not promising kids but genuine foot soldiers (like Clarke) who can come in and play a role, especially in an otherwise really good side. Looking at the list today, there was Campbell (a potential A-grader) then local boys Wicks and Bell. Otherwise it’s kids.

I believe “depth” players need to be able to perform a role at AFL level.

I’m not sure what role Bell fills.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I believe “depth” players need to be able to perform a role at AFL level.

I’m not sure what role Bell fills.

He was a very good defensive forward last year.

He has the tank to be a very good defensive midfielder.

We lose 3 players to injury in the preliminary final Bell is in. You need at least 28 senior bodies. He’s one of those.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

He was a very good defensive forward last year.

He has the tank to be a very good defensive midfielder.

We lose 3 players to injury in the preliminary final Bell is in. You need at least 28 senior bodies. He’s one of those.

I think it’s a stretch to say “very good”, but granted everyone sees things differently.

 

[grimlock]

Thanks Sinkers

 

[rustycrate]

What did happen to Sheldrick?

 

[Kiama Chris]

Bell has played as a defensive forward. Clarke as a midfielder. Their stats can’t be compared.

But that isn’t the point. The point is we have had a charmed run with injuries this year. We have a large group of very young recruits who will need time. They don’t have the miles in their legs (yet) to play regular senior football.

Previously we have advocated for the delisting of Clarke (me), Fox and Reid (not me) and others.

You need depth. And by that I mean not promising kids but genuine foot soldiers (like Clarke) who can come in and play a role, especially in an otherwise really good side. Looking at the list today, there was Campbell (a potential A-grader) then local boys Wicks and Bell. Otherwise it’s kids.

Been advocating this point of view for a long while. No club can afford 44 A graders. You have to get the best support cast you can to do a few things:
Put pressure on for senior spots.
Come into seniors and play a role when necessary.
Form the core of a competitive VFL team so that developing players aren't getting belted.
Maintain and enhance the club culture.
So your VFL team will be a group of these guys, developing players and genuine VFL players, roughly even in number.
Our guys did better than most of the big Vic clubs so that's a pretty fair effort. Not to be sneezed at.

 

[bedford]

You’d prefer a 5th round draft pick? Surely the Clarke experience has taught you something?

They play completely different roles so can't compare . Both have been very good VFL players and Clarke has now taken his chance , something Bell couldn't do and when he did he cost us a final missing a shot from 25 directly in front !

 

[Caj]

The point with Bell is that he has had plenty of opportunity at senior level and hasn't shown anything to suggest he is worth persevering with, his performance as a pressure forward was mediocre at best. Comparing him with Fox, Clarke, Stephens etc. isn't relevant as they all have/had attributes and had games at senior level which suggested they could take the next step.

 

[caesar88]

What did happen to Sheldrick?

A leg infection from a cut in last week's game.

 

[hairy biker]

On Bell, he plays almost exclusively as a midfielder in the reserves. Is he ever going to be chosen in that role at senior level?
Clarke and Taylor have performed better than him at 2nds level, Roberts & Sheldrick are coming through and I thought Campbell was our most effective midfielder on the weekend v GCS.
We also have players in the seniors, eg Gulden, who have not been getting many on ball minutes who could slot into the 1sts midfield.

Bell has been underwhelming at senior level in the fwd defensive role. Clarke, Ronke & Wicks have, IMO, all performed better than him in that position.
And FWIW I think with a bit more meat on his bones Corey Warner could also take on that role.
I just don't see Bell as necessary depth next season (even if we assume Taylor moves on).

However it does highlight one issue that crossed my mind watching Rhyce Shaw

Rhyce Shaw

Age

42

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

12.0

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

313.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

on the GCS sidelines on the weekend.
I always thought he was a terrific development coach when in charge of our reserves and tended to throw players around to see how they performed in different roles, but also so the players could get a better understanding of various positions.
Dawson played just about everywhere. Sam Murray went from a failing small fwd to a back pocket who netted us a second round pick.

I look at Laidler and I just don't see the same focus, he seems much more result orientated.
As an example with Bell. As I said above he's played pretty much exclusively as a midfielder in the seconds. I would have liked to see him tried as a lockdown small defender. May not have worked, but worth a shot I would have thought.
Similarly I see Amartey and I would have liked to see him get a run in defence at some point (obviously not in a final). Not necessarily as a long term option, bit I think he lacks some fwd craft, particularly leading patterns. Stick him on the best opposition fwd and see if he can pick up any tricks than he can subsequently apply to his own game.
And potentially it gives him another string to his bow, particularly with COR and possibly Melican (trade) and BOC (delist) moving on. (I'm also nowhere near convinced of Gould as an AFL level defender as others seem to be).
In his early days at the Swans Amartey did play a bit of defence. To be kind, without much success. But now, who knows? If nothing else as I say it could have been a learning experience.

On some other players from the weekend;
Rankin needs to learn how to get more of the ball and make himself more dangerous
Same sentiments really for Corey Warner
I think Hall-Kahan has slotted in well, especially given the football he has missed and a few sessions in the gym will do him no harm
Obviously Sheldrick didn't play on the weekend, but I think he and Roberts are developing well, although a bit more composure when Roberts kicks the ball would be welcome
I'd persist with McAndrew. A few years back we picked up development rucks in the American Patrick Mitchell and the 8ft tall (sort of) Kyle Galloway and both had the same problem as McAndrew - new to the game and a number of more senior rucks playing in the seconds, limiting their opportunities. I think he has shown enough to extend his contract beyond the end of this season.

And so the reserves season ends, which is a shame as much for fitness for possible senior 'emergencies' as it is from a result point of view.

And lastly thanks Cal.
Gave it his all.

 

[bedford]

On Bell, he plays almost exclusively as a midfielder in the reserves. Is he ever going to be chosen in that role at senior level?
Clarke and Taylor have performed better than him at 2nds level, Roberts & Sheldrick are coming through and I thought Campbell was our most effective midfielder on the weekend v GCS.
We also have players in the seniors, eg Gulden, who have not been getting many on ball minutes who could slot into the 1sts midfield.

Bell has been underwhelming at senior level in the fwd defensive role. Clarke, Ronke & Wicks have, IMO, all performed better than him in that position.
And FWIW I think with a bit more meat on his bones Corey Warner could also take on that role.
I just don't see Bell as necessary depth next season (even if we assume Taylor moves on).

However it does highlight one issue that crossed my mind watching Rhyce Shaw on the GCS sidelines on the weekend.
I always thought he was a terrific development coach when in charge of our reserves and tended to throw players around to see how they performed in different roles, but also so the players could get a better understanding of various positions.
Dawson played just about everywhere. Sam Murray went from a failing small fwd to a back pocket who netted us a second round pick.

I look at Laidler and I just don't see the same focus, he seems much more result orientated.
As an example with Bell. As I said above he's played pretty much exclusively as a midfielder in the seconds. I would have liked to see him tried as a lockdown small defender. May not have worked, but worth a shot I would have thought.
Similarly I see Amartey and I would have liked to see him get a run in defence at some point (obviously not in a final). Not necessarily as a long term option, bit I think he lacks some fwd craft, particularly leading patterns. Stick him on the best opposition fwd and see if he can pick up any tricks than he can subsequently apply to his own game.
And potentially it gives him another string to his bow, particularly with COR and possibly Melican (trade) and BOC (delist) moving on. (I'm also nowhere near convinced of Gould as an AFL level defender as others seem to be).
In his early days at the Swans Amartey did play a bit of defence. To be kind, without much success. But now, who knows? If nothing else as I say it could have been a learning experience.

On some other players from the weekend;
Rankin needs to learn how to get more of the ball and make himself more dangerous
Same sentiments really for Corey Warner
I think Hall-Kahan has slotted in well, especially given the football he has missed and a few sessions in the gym will do him no harm
Obviously Sheldrick didn't play on the weekend, but I think he and Roberts are developing well, although a bit more composure when Roberts kicks the ball would be welcome
I'd persist with McAndrew. A few years back we picked up development rucks in the American Patrick Mitchell and the 8ft tall (sort of) Kyle Galloway and both had the same problem as McAndrew - new to the game and a number of more senior rucks playing in the seconds, limiting their opportunities. I think he has shown enough to extend his contract beyond the end of this season.

And so the reserves season ends, which is a shame as much for fitness for possible senior 'emergencies' as it is from a result point of view.

And lastly thanks Cal.
Gave it his all.

View attachment 1499789

Fantastic summary HB.
I really think Gould has stepped right up in the last few weeks.
Agree on Shaw , he was all about developing players in certain roles , not just about winning and that's why he won the best assistant coach award a couple of times.

 

[Bloods86]

On Bell, he plays almost exclusively as a midfielder in the reserves. Is he ever going to be chosen in that role at senior level?
...
Bell has been underwhelming at senior level in the fwd defensive role. Clarke, Ronke & Wicks have, IMO, all performed better than him in that position.
...
I just don't see Bell as necessary depth next season (even if we assume Taylor moves on).
...
Similarly I see Amartey and I would have liked to see him get a run in defence at some point (obviously not in a final). Not necessarily as a long term option, bit I think he lacks some fwd craft, particularly leading patterns.
...
I'd persist with McAndrew.

Agreed, Bell can be good at reserves level, but not in a position that he'll ever be given a spot in seniors, and he hasn't shown a lot as a general/defensive forward. Someone like Clarke is applying his skill-set into a different position at senior level (which he's never played in reserves), without that he'd never have gotten a game. I'm fine with moving Bell and Taylor on, we'll undoubtedly draft at least one mid, and Roberts, Sheldrick will have an extra pre-season behind them. I suspect we might keep at least one of Bell, Taylor, Ronke though. Wouldn't surprise me if we tried picking up a 2nd mid (assuming we draft one) as a DFA or rookie just to support at VFL level (or just focus on a couple of mids as top-ups). Just think it's fairly clear that Bell and Taylor aren't breaking through and you may as well have someone on the list that might.

Agree re: McAndrew - too early to tell. We only got him last June and he was very raw. I think he's shown enough to keep developing him. With Sincs and surely Naismith going, Hickey and Reid only a year away from retirement probably, I doubt we start actively delisting any rucks. We'll probably grab one of the academy rucks this year, and then this/next year trade in a mature ager to ruck at VFL level, provide backup for Ladhams. Amartey might have to ruck more at VFL level (if he's not in seniors), expect one of Ladhams or Hickey to be there a bit, though a potential Buddy exit (and having to fill his spot) might mean we go earlier on a mature ager or drafting an extra tall.

Don't agree re: Amartey - most of his goals are from leads, there's been games where he's torched the opposition repeatedly. Think it's been a great VFL season for him, top 5 in the goalkicking (and better average than Cavarra, Crocker), with a couple of stints in seniors, 2 games where he went off in the first half injured, and chopping out in the ruck. Don't see a need to switch him to defence, he's fine where he is.

 

[Ticky009]

 

[SwansProudly]

Congratulations Will Gould, Lewis Taylor

28

Lewis Taylor

Age

29

Ht

174cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.6

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.1

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

9.6

2star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.2

3star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

1.2

4star

and Joel Amartey

 

[Tesla Tenet]

And Jack Maibaum,

Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

 

[Wheresbuddy]

And Jack Maibaum,

Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

If anyone deserves another go it's Maibaum. Wretched run with injury, ACL at start of 2019 then I think more injuries 2020 (?plus family tragedy in the middle of Covid) when he surely would've played given all our injuries to our talks that year. Only 22 and clearly playing good footy. Wouldn't mind if we gave him a second chance or even if someone else does.

 

[BloodySwan]

If anyone deserves another go it's Maibaum. Wretched run with injury, ACL at start of 2019 then I think more injuries 2020 (?plus family tragedy in the middle of Covid) when he surely would've played given all our injuries to our talks that year. Only 22 and clearly playing good footy. Wouldn't mind if we gave him a second chance or even if someone else does.

I think he's 24 but still agree. No harm in taking him again

 

[Chaisa]

Congratulations Will Gould, Lewis Taylor and Joel Amartey

Didn’t realise David Mitchell went into VFL coaching.

 

[bedford]

Clarke was killing it until he got the senior call up

 

[bedford]

Liston votes
15 CLARKE
12 BELL
11 TAYLOR
6 KENNEDY ,
5 AMARTEY
4 HICKEY
3 HALL-KAHAN,O'RIEORDAN ,
2 GOULD ,RONKE ,STEPHENS.
1 LADHAMS , MCLEAN ,WICKS

 

[Ticky009]

Cassey have beaten Southport in the VFL Grand Final

Casey crowned premiers after downing Southport in VFL Grand Final slog

The Casey Demons are officially the 2022 VFL premiers!

www.sen.com.au

 

[grimlock]

They took Kennelly last week, now they've taken the 2nd part of our 2017 NEAFL co-coaching team.

Laidler Lands at the GIANTS

Jeremy Laidler has joined the GIANTS’ coaching staff.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

 

[Millky95]

They took Kennelly last week, now they've taken the 2nd part of our 2017 NEAFL co-coaching team.

Laidler Lands at the GIANTS

Jeremy Laidler has joined the GIANTS’ coaching staff.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

Wasn't Laidler our 2s coach this season?

 

[grimlock]

Yes.

 

[Ticky009]

Yes.

Game on!