Preview 2022 Spoon (poll)

[AFDogs]

Crows have the worst list and worst youth in the league right now. Hawks a close 2nd. However they've proven they're capable of beating quality sides on their day (Geelong and Dees) so they may surprise a few next year but they're my pick.

Can absolutely see the Eagles shitting the bed and finishing bottom 3 also. Could probably post that in an 'outlandish predictions' thread though.

 

[Jack Green]

Crows have the worst list and worst youth in the league right now. Hawks a close 2nd. However they've proven they're capable of beating quality sides on their day (Geelong and Dees) so they may surprise a few next year but they're my pick.

Can absolutely see the Eagles shitting the bed and finishing bottom 3 also. Could probably post that in an 'outlandish predictions' thread though.

We always do our ladders after the fixture comes out. Personally don't think Adelaide for the spoon [ and 6 games could be that] and West Coast tumbling to bottom 4 is off the grid. Be interesting how WC supporters see them tracking.

 

[Jack Green]

I think the most clear evidence is plain for all to see - the players wanted to stay. If there was unrest, discontent, cultural issues, etc - the players would indicate a desire to leave. As it was, all of the senior players were adamant they wished to remain at the club from beginning to end.

The other key point is there is also no evidence to the contrary. It seems strange to need evidence to prove something is not happening when there is no evidence to show that it is, right?

It is clear that the whole 'fire sale' narrative was significantly 'beat up' by the media to generate interest in a lacklustre trade week (most instigated by an ambiguous letter from Jeff that he sends every year). The club and the players remained consistent in their messaging throughout - with T. Mitchell, Wingard and Breust in particular repeating over and over again that they were happy and would be staying at the club.

Certainly a strong anti - Hawk bias in the media in recent years due to their success . On their slide, a lot of journo's who support other clubs have been eager to put the boot in. Very slow news days with AFL trade week possibly didn't help. Dare I say, big footy has a strong element of this anti- Hawk bias too , and I'm as guilty as the next bloke.

Enjoyed Pinoy Hawks post about ex -champ Crawford's view that at Hawthorn it was business as usual. I thought this would be an issue moving forward. Pretty good source. Crawford as both an ex-player and privy to conversations not available to us, could certainly make me reconsider my view-point.

 

[juss]

Apparently Hawks offered pick 23 and our future 1st for pick 21. I dont imagine he has plans for tanking if he is willing to swap a future 1st for a 2nd round pick.

That said, the story about offering our future 1st for a 2nd round pick could be complete bullshit.



There are a LOT of Carlton, Essendon, and Geelong supporters on BF.

I think it might be one of those play the kids scenarios as the season develops. Hawthorn aren't going to play finals, and I reckon with a bit of security Mitchell will be comfortable to take a top pick.

I could see a combination of playing the kids and just not being very good resulting in Hawks finishing last.

Although I do see Collingwood as more likely to wooden spoon.

 

[The 747]

I think the most clear evidence is plain for all to see - the players wanted to stay. If there was unrest, discontent, cultural issues, etc - the players would indicate a desire to leave. As it was, all of the senior players were adamant they wished to remain at the club from beginning to end.

The other key point is there is also no evidence to the contrary. It seems strange to need evidence to prove something is not happening when there is no evidence to show that it is, right?

It is clear that the whole 'fire sale' narrative was significantly 'beat up' by the media to generate interest in a lacklustre trade week (most instigated by an ambiguous letter from Jeff that he sends every year). The club and the players remained consistent in their messaging throughout - with T. Mitchell, Wingard and Breust in particular repeating over and over again that they were happy and would be staying at the club.

I see no evidence of this lack of evidence.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It’s pretty odd that Hawthorn are winning this poll, when we defeated more top 8 sides than any non-finalist without some of our best players, and the criticism around not trading out senior players for more picks was that we’ll be a middling side in 2022 and miss the top end of the draft.





This is the Squiggle’s end of season ratings.

 

[Jack Green]

It’s pretty odd that Hawthorn are winning this poll, when we defeated more top 8 sides than any non-finalist without some of our best players, and the criticism around not trading out senior players for more picks was that we’ll be a middling side in 2022 and miss the top end of the draft.


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This is the Squiggle’s end of season ratings.

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The senior player fire sale media hype is impossible to gauge at this point of time . Interested in Crawford's comments mid October mind you.

The reverse side of the coin as already stated is they lost to every non-finalist bar Collingwood. The other issue is the Clarko factor - was the last 6 weeks the last hurrah of a master coach now passing the baton to an untried package ?? Many Hawthorn supporters have voiced they had the side placed higher next year, if Clarkson was still in charge. Those 2 factors [one fact and one unknown] firmly place Hawthorn in wooden spoon conversation.
The top of the bottom 6 is where most Hawthorn fans will place them and this is not an unrealistic assessment.

 

[Braidz]

Why isn’t Geelong in the list?

 

[Jack Green]

Why isn’t Geelong in the list?

Because unfortunately they will be in the top half of the ladder.

 

[The 747]

It’s pretty odd that Hawthorn are winning this poll, when we defeated more top 8 sides than any non-finalist without some of our best players, and the criticism around not trading out senior players for more picks was that we’ll be a middling side in 2022 and miss the top end of the draft.


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This is the Squiggle’s end of season ratings.

View attachment 1290579

Well you turfed a pretty good coach for an untried coach (who has tickets on himself) and have a midfield of jabronis. And Jeff is still there.

 

[schmuttt]

Crows have the worst list IMO

 

[Islanda22]

How much are the Suns paying for the wooden spoon? Money for Jam

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Well you turfed a pretty good coach for an untried coach (who has tickets on himself) and have a midfield of jabronis. And Jeff is still there.

Meh, Jeff’s just holding on to whatever relevance he has left, he knows his time is up.

You’d get no argument regarding the midfield in the first half of 2021, but it set up a lot better in the second half of the year and even got the better of the Dogs without O’meara or Worpel, and held up against the Dees and Lions too.

Anyway, Mitchell’s no scrub, Weagles and Box Hill boys can’t say enough good things about him and he’ll not play the same level of defensive game that Clarko ran with, plus there’s the further development of our youngsters that will come along with some returned stars.

It’s your money, but I wouldn’t bet on us dropping 5 spots on the ladder if I was you.

 

[The 747]

Meh, Jeff’s just holding on to whatever relevance he has left, he knows his time is up.

You’d get no argument regarding the midfield in the first half of 2021, but it set up a lot better in the second half of the year and even got the better of the Dogs without O’meara or Worpel, and held up against the Dees and Lions too.

Anyway, Mitchell’s no scrub, Weagles and Box Hill boys can’t say enough good things about him and he’ll not play the same level of defensive game that Clarko ran with, plus there’s the further development of our youngsters that will come along with some returned stars.

It’s your money, but I wouldn’t bet on us dropping 5 spots on the ladder if I was you.

The question was one why the Hawks might be tipped to go poorly despite a good run of form towards the end of the year. I posted why this might be the case.

I wouldn't be betting anyway, I am not an idiot who likes to give away money.

 

[Jack Green]

Meh, Jeff’s just holding on to whatever relevance he has left, he knows his time is up.

You’d get no argument regarding the midfield in the first half of 2021, but it set up a lot better in the second half of the year and even got the better of the Dogs without O’meara or Worpel, and held up against the Dees and Lions too.

Anyway, Mitchell’s no scrub, Weagles and Box Hill boys can’t say enough good things about him and he’ll not play the same level of defensive game that Clarko ran with, plus there’s the further development of our youngsters that will come along with some returned stars.

It’s your money, but I wouldn’t bet on us dropping 5 spots on the ladder if I was you.

Other sides don't have injured stars returning, don't have developing youngsters and aren't saying positive things about their coach either

 

[Jack Green]

How much are the Suns paying for the wooden spoon? Money for Jam

Certainly in the equation - not so much because of their list, but because it's Gold Coast. Things can change though.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Well you turfed a pretty good coach for an untried coach (who has tickets on himself) and have a midfield of jabronis. And Jeff is still there.

Clarko was burnt out. Hawthorn needed a fresh start and that was obvious mid-way through this season.

It is interesting though how 'Clarko is past it' was a familiar narrative I heard during 2021, but now he's been replaced we are wooden spoon favourites because 'we sacked the best coach in the competition' according to a lot of people.

There is enough evidence, through his work as an assistant at West Coast and small tenure as senior coach at Box Hill, to be excited about Sam Mitchell taking the reigns.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Other sides don't have injured stars returning, don't have developing youngsters and aren't saying positive things about their coach either

They don't have the same amount of stars returning no.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It’s pretty odd that Hawthorn are winning this poll, when we defeated more top 8 sides than any non-finalist without some of our best players, and the criticism around not trading out senior players for more picks was that we’ll be a middling side in 2022 and miss the top end of the draft.


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This is the Squiggle’s end of season ratings.

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Squiggle doesn't adjust for forcing out the best AFL coach though.

Imo, Hawks have the worst list in the AFL & Mitchell is unlikely to weave the same magic as Clarkson in his 1st year of coaching.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Squiggle doesn't adjust for forcing out the best AFL coach though.

Imo, Hawks have the worst list in the AFL & Mitchell is unlikely to weave the same magic as Clarkson in his 1st year of coaching.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Squiggle doesn't adjust for forcing out the best AFL coach though.

Imo, Hawks have the worst list in the AFL & Mitchell is unlikely to weave the same magic as Clarkson in his 1st year of coaching.

Have a close inspection of your own clubs list and Collingwood's before making those sort of claims.

Most Hawks fans are happy to admit that Clarko wasn't the best coach in the AFL anymore. He had a hand in the list management following our straight sets finals exits in 2016 and 2018 that were met with some scepticism and was ultimately proven to be for good reason. He insisted on playing older and recycled players at various times when it was blatantly obvious a new approach was needed (Minchington over Dylan Moore during 2020 just one example).
He is a legend of both our sport and the Hawthorn football club but despite the messy exit, the time was right for him to move on.

I guess we'll just need to hope our horrible list (including players such as Tom Mitchell, James Sicily, Jack Gunston, Luke Breust, Will Day, DGB, Wingard, Scrimshaw, Kosi, Moore, Jiath, Hardwick to name a few) can scrape through for a win or two next season.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Have a close inspection of your own clubs list and Collingwood's before making those sort of claims.

Most Hawks fans are happy to admit that Clarko wasn't the best coach in the AFL anymore. He had a hand in the list management following our straight sets finals exits in 2016 and 2018 that were met with some scepticism and was ultimately proven to be for good reason. He insisted on playing older and recycled players at various times when it was blatantly obvious a new approach was needed (Minchington over Dylan Moore during 2020 just one example).
He is a legend of both our sport and the Hawthorn football club but despite the messy exit, the time was right for him to move on.

I guess we'll just need to hope our horrible list (including players such as Tom Mitchell, James Sicily, Jack Gunston, Luke Breust, Will Day, DGB, Wingard, Scrimshaw, Kosi, Moore, Jiath, Hardwick to name a few) can scrape through for a win or two next season.

Your list is well behind both ours & the Pies. You have had a lack of early draft picks over the past 5 years & well behind what we have brought in over the same period.

It's only the genius of Clarko that was responsible for most of your wins.

 

[Crusty Demon]

If Walsh goes down with a season ending injury I can see the Blues finishing last tbh. Just don't rate their list at all. The Suns are a constant disaster even with a young and talented list. Pies might not have bottomed out yet. Hawks showed some good signs without most of their backline last season yet their midfield looks real shaky. New coach they could go either way. Kangas are still years away from doing any real damage. They'll get better though. Same with Crows. I'd have North slightly ahead of Crows. Will we see a monumental fall by the Cats/Eagles? Doubt it, but Dees won a flag so anything can happen. I'd have my spoon favourites as follows:

Suns
Pies

Crows
Kangas

Hawks
Blues

 

[Blackhawk42]

Your list is well behind both ours & the Pies. You have had a lack of early draft picks over the past 5 years & well behind what we have brought in over the same period.

It's only the genius of Clarko that was responsible for most of your wins.

I'll take late picks Kosi, Moore, Worpel and Jiath in particular over first round picks McAsey, Jones and McHenry if I'm being honest mate.

To this point, our bargain selections have shown far more, with a couple looking genuinely elite for their positions. Our list isn't in as bad as shape as people want to believe it is.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I'll take late picks Kosi, Moore, Worpel and Jiath in particular over first round picks McAsey, Jones and McHenry if I'm being honest mate.

To this point, our bargain selections have shown far more, with a couple looking genuinely elite for their positions. Our list isn't in as bad as shape as people want to believe it is.

Well it's going to be interesting to review this thread during/at the end of the season.

Imo your list is the worst & appears the poll is supporting this is the view of most.

You have neglected to mention Thilthorpe who is arguably our most exciting prospect.

Schoenberg has already shown he is likely to be a quality midfielder.

Butts rarely beaten last year & solid replacement for Talia.

Cook is something special.

Haven't seen much of Pedlar at AFL level, but has potential to be our best midfielder.

We have brought in far more talent over the past 5 years & confident we are well ahead in thr rebuild stakes.