List Mgmt. 2022 Squad - BigFooty Posters Say The Darndest Things

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Libba39

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 10, 2008
5,007
5,677
Murrumbeena
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Western Bulldogs
I hate to say it but if you look at the recent history of bad GF losses, teams that get smashed don't make it the following year, and are at least 3 years away from scaling the heights again. Not that there can't be exceptions to the rule, and we may have had some excuses in the end.

I'm not one for throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but this kind of loss calls for an immediate injection of change, and radical change at that.

I'm going to be up front and say that I have been a proponent of Naughton forward for the last two years, but I think that has changed after last night. Apart from two intercept marks, one from Keath and one from Cordy, our tall defenders were spectators. Wood simply is not up to the task being too slow and battered by injuries. The game has gone past him.

Naughton plays a bit like a tall flanker, has speed and can obviously get separation and take a grab. He also has plenty of aggression. Maybe he does go back.

Down forward, hopefully JUH has had a taste and can have a big pre-season. I'd stick with Schache. He was a bee's dick away from kicking 3 in a prelim and he has some height. English just needs to get bigger, and train as a forward. He's just not a full-time ruck. Maybe he'll get there but it may not be until he's 27-28.

Sweet MUST be developed and play a larger role next year. He's big and agressive and showed some real ability in the games he played in the ruck this season. Who knows what reason Bevo and the match committee had for not playing him. Lets face it we'll probably never know.

Wowee, the midfield. Much, hyped, but essentially blown off the park. The explosiveness of the Demon's midfield could not be matched. Only Treloar and Bailey Smith and Bont get close. Macrae, Dunks, and Libba, as good as they are would need a wet Melbourne track to e competitive against the Dees of last night. Does Rylee West have that spark or is he another plodder?

So, I have absolutely no doubt that we need a major shake-up. Not a re-build but a refresh and a rethink. We need speed and height and a few tough decisions beed to be made this off-season. Here is a 22 for 2022 which has a bit more of this:

FB: Keath Naughton Williams
HB: Richards Gardner Dale
C: Johannisen Treloar B.Smith
HF: Garcia Schache* Vandermeer
FF: English JUH Weightman
RUC: Sweet Bont Macrae

Int: Daniel, Hunter, R.Smith, Libba
EMG: Khamis, Bedendo, McNeill, Scott

*assumes Bruce out for year

Possible trades - Dunkley, Wallis, Young
Phase out - Wood , Dureya, Martin, Croz, Hannan

Bring in / Recruit: athletic utility types and/or mids/wingers with burst speed + Darcy (ruc/fwd)

Its not too early to start. Put your ideas and teams forward here.
 
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Here we go dogs

All Australian
Sep 17, 2014
675
894
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Western Bulldogs
Disagree that we need major changes. we will be fine. This is a different year compared to others with the covid situation. In addition, Other sides who have been scarred from a heavy loss in a grand final we’re literally beaten from start to finish. We were way on top and had a terrible 10 minute patch in third qtr and the boys dropped their heads.

We need to stay on course with what we are building and address our clear deficiencies being one on one defending and scores against at stoppages.Ruckman aside these are tactical issues not personal based.

Back: Williams Keath Khamis
Half Back: Dale Gardner Daniel
Centre: Smith Dunkley Hunter
Half Forward: Vdm Naughton Treloar
Forward: Weightman English JUH

Mid: TBC (Hope it’s Flynn) Macrae Bont

Interchange: Richards West Libba Dureya

Emergencies: Crozier (Gets himself right, he is in ahead of khamis), Schache (train him as a defender, Garcia and Hannan

Sweet and khamis should have the preseason of there lives, there is a spot screaming out for them.
 

Virgin Dog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 29, 2017
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I'm torn on Naughton. Seeing May and Lever achieve what they have this year makes me desperate to see a Keath + Naughton pairing which I honestly think would be even better than what Melbourne have. I am also a firm believer in the concept of premiers NEEDING a strong defensive unit, which we do not currently have. Our defenders are great when we're in possession, but questionable defensively.

On the other hand, by moving Naughton back we're leaving ourselves missing a proper number 1 target up forward. English should be 2nd/3rd tall as a ruck/forward. JUH is not ready, and is probably not the type to be the main target. Schache obviously isn't the right person for it. It would be Bruce, but he's out all year.

In saying that, I'm not so sure that Melbourne have a dominant forward target either, and look what they managed. I'm right back onto the fence about where Naughton plays next year. I'd love to see him down back but the concerns will linger over what that means for our forward line
 

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Boyd oh Boyd

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Nov 29, 2018
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I'm not too worried. The gap between first and second reallly seemed to be that big. A big part of that is system but you have to acknowledge how many Melbourne players are in career best form right now. You could not have asked more from almost every one of those players. You just have to look Geelong, Port, Brisbane and even us to see how hard it is to get that many players to be at their peak at once.

If we went into the same game with Naughton in the sort of marking form he was displaying early in the year would it be different? Maybe, maybe not. We certainly didn't capitalise on our momentum and May not being at his best. We could have put on a good margin, made them play more risky football and win from there. It's possible, maybe unlikely seeing how good their midfield could be when it mattered.

We're not without our issues but despite them we were the second best team. If we panic and try to throw the whole structure out that's when we're probably at the most risk of falling apart and becoming a crap side. We've got to stay the course now, and just try and improve on what we can.
 
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CarnTheScray

Premiership Player
Jun 4, 2019
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Melbourne
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I'll talk more about who exactly we need to recruit in the List Management thread but here's my view.

Wood and Cordy are made to bite off more than they can chew really. Wood should really be a half back flanker, not one of our key defenders.

I think once Bruce is back and Jamarra is ready Naughton should go back with Keath. He is really only playing in the forward line by default because we have nobody else there as of this very moment.

Don't think we have that many problems. We are the 2nd best team in the comp and took it up to the best team with our list deficiencies whilst our opponent is pretty much a complete team and couldn't get any better or play any better, had players playing injured (eg: Keath), having to travel heaps, and we had key injuries through the year.
 

Snarls Barkley

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I don’t think we need to change too much either. Can’t see Naughton moving back with Bruce out next year but can see him moving back eventually.

I imagine Schache will play defense next season with the odd move forward when necessary. We’re desperate to find that second key defender. I think we missed a trick playing Cordy over Young when Gardner was out but its clear that the coaching staff don‘t trust Young to be that guy. I don’t think Cordy has the size or athleticism to be that guy but the coaches clearly trust him to play a role. Can’t see Wood being a regular next season, hopefully Crozier returns to his best and replaces him. His drop off this year was strange, I trusted him more than any other defender before this season. Obviously we need a ruckman too.

Good opportunity to pump games into Ugle-Hagan with the Bruce injury and absolutely have to do that. Would like to see Richards solidify a half back spot but those positions are hard to find since Dale moved back and West needs to be given more opportunities next season. Not sure what to make of the small forward positions apart from Weightman. Hannan and Johannisen had good finals series but were underwhelming for large portions of the year, Vandermeer didn’t really get going, McLean sadly won’t be available, Garcia was really promising and was surprised he went out when he did. Hopefully he makes another jump. Can see those two positions really being up for grabs, hoping West and Garcia grab those positions personally but we’ll see.

B: Bailey Williams, Alex Keath, Taylor Duryea
HB: Bailey Dale, ??? / Josh Schache / Ryan Gardner, Caleb Daniel

R: ???, Josh Dunkley, Marcus Bontempelli
C: Bailey Smith, Jack Macrae, Lachie Hunter

HF: ??? , Aaron Naughton, ???
F: Cody Weightman, Tim English, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan

I: Adam Treloar, Tom Liberatore, Roarke Smith, Hayden Crozier / Ed Richards,
 
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Mofra

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In saying that, I'm not so sure that Melbourne have a dominant forward target either, and look what they managed. I'm right back onto the fence about where Naughton plays next year. I'd love to see him down back but the concerns will linger over what that means for our forward line
Ben Brown is underrated. Kicked more goals than anyone else in the competition through 2017-2019
 

Virgin Dog

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Oct 29, 2017
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Ben Brown is underrated. Kicked more goals than anyone else in the competition through 2017-2019
Not the same player over the last 2 years though (although I do agree has been chronically underrated). The grand final happened to be one of his best games in 2 years
 

hutchy31

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May 25, 2014
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Ben Brown is underrated. Kicked more goals than anyone else in the competition through 2017-2019
It was weird how his value just disappeared. Couldn’t understand it at the time. Melbourne made a good decision there.

Brown, Aliir and Hickey were all available for not very much a year ago, there will be other “average” players out there that will improve our list and we can’t keep wasting spots on a bunch of mids who’ll never play in finals.
 

conrad_437

Club Legend
Jun 26, 2016
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It was weird how his value just disappeared. Couldn’t understand it at the time. Melbourne made a good decision there.

Brown, Aliir and Hickey were all available for not very much a year ago, there will be other “average” players out there that will improve our list and we can’t keep wasting spots on a bunch of mids who’ll never play in finals.
Hickey and Aliir were the big ones that could have drastically changed our fortunes this year. Hickey more so.
 

hutchy31

Norm Smith Medallist
May 25, 2014
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Hickey and Aliir were the big ones that could have drastically changed our fortunes this year. Hickey more so.
We have Hickey in the ruck we finish top two, and/or we have Hickey in the ruck we win last night (imo). Not many people saw him having such a good year but putting the chips in on Martin and English instead backfired.

We need some aggression in our trade approach, and I think we might get it. If we need to trade out good players to fill that critical gap then get it done.
 

Dogsman16

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 19, 2012
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I dont get it regarding Naughton.

Last game he takes 6 contested marks. 6 times he was targeted inside forward 50 and took 4 contested marks. Now we want him in defence? We hardly kicked it in his direction last night.

The real problem was the ruck, lack of defensive sweeper in the centre and the ridiculous decision to play Cordy over gardiner. Wood is probably cooked too. throw in underdone Keath and Weightman.

Even if all those things align do we stop Melbourne? Probably no one could have.
 

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Munnez

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Apr 2, 2018
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Outside of Petracca you wouldn’t describe any of Melbourne’s mids as explosive, that’s what makes the 3rd quarter blow out so disappointing. Also fu** Bailey Fritsch.
If ever there was a front runner it's Fritsch.
Deadly if he gets it inside 50
 

Patrick_Bateman

Draftee
Sep 26, 2021
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If ever there was a front runner it's Fritsch.
Deadly if he gets it inside 50
I second this.

As soon as he kicked his first one in the 3rd quarter of the GF and ran up to the crowd it was like he had just bumped a massive line of coke. He was explosive after that.
 
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Patrick_Bateman

Draftee
Sep 26, 2021
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I dont get it regarding Naughton.

Last game he takes 6 contested marks. 6 times he was targeted inside forward 50 and took 4 contested marks. Now we want him in defence? We hardly kicked it in his direction last night.

The real problem was the ruck, lack of defensive sweeper in the centre and the ridiculous decision to play Cordy over gardiner. Wood is probably cooked too. throw in underdone Keath and Weightman.

Even if all those things align do we stop Melbourne? Probably no one could have.
I think when analysing footy, we all tend to get tunnel vision regarding what we view as the most damaging matters.

The loss in the GF was IMO a culmination of multiple factors (low morale and exhaustion from travel, poor coaching at crucial moments, some players not stepping up to their usual levels, unnecessary skill errors, etc).

However, I do agree that pushing Naughton back will not magically solve all our problems. Whilst Melbourne’s defence is objectively better than ours, our defence was put under undue pressure because our mids failed to stem the tide of their mids. It’s the midfield where innovation in coaching and players (need a new ruck!) should be focused. If our mids work well, our forwards (Naughton, Weightman, Hannan and hopefully soon JUH) thrive.

Anyways that’s just my 2cents.
 

Samdogg

Debutant
Sep 27, 2021
121
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I think once Bruce is back and Jamarra is ready Naughton should go back with Keath. He is really only playing in the forward line by default because we have nobody else there as of this very moment.
That's really the whole reason he was moved forward in the first place. At some point during the 2019 pre-season, Beveridge realized just how bad the forward line was, and urgently needed to change something. Moving Naughton there was a last minute decision, which ultimately worked in the short term, but it's still not his best position.
Last game he takes 6 contested marks. 6 times he was targeted inside forward 50 and took 4 contested marks. Now we want him in defence? We hardly kicked it in his direction last night.
Because he wasn't making leads inside 50.

People probably want him in defence because they think he'd be better there. Besides we need another tall defender anyway.
 

BulldogMuscle

Big Barry Hall
Jan 7, 2021
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328
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Naughton going back to defense is us losing Naughton to another club who'll play him forward when his contract is up. He is a forward, has the swagger of a forward, and will only grow into that role, being down back is not Naughton anymore.

We'll hopefully replace two assistant coaches, get in some new fresh eyes and ideas, grab a number 1 ruck and KPD and go again next year. Hopefully some focus on defensive running for the mids and a ruck who can half contests and maybe win us some ball at the source.
 

CarnTheScray

Premiership Player
Jun 4, 2019
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If he wants to stay forward he needs to learn how to lead. Almost always plays behind his opponent trying to take the big contested mark.

Jamarra is already better than him at leading in the forward line.
 

Virgin Dog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 29, 2017
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If he wants to stay forward he needs to learn how to lead. Almost always plays behind his opponent trying to take the big contested mark.

Jamarra is already better than him at leading in the forward line.
Him not leading doesn't bother me too much when we can get that from Bruce, JUH, Schache and Weightman (or if it became an issue, adding Wallis whose leading patterns are great). My sole issue with Naughton remains his inability to convert set shots. If he converted at the levels shown by most key forwards, he'd have well and truly cleared 65+ goals this year.
 

Samdogg

Debutant
Sep 27, 2021
121
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Naughton going back to defense is us losing Naughton to another club who'll play him forward when his contract is up. He is a forward, has the swagger of a forward, and will only grow into that role, being down back is not Naughton anymore.
He also gets lost up forward fairly regularly, still struggles with some of the basic fundamentals like kicking and leading patterns, and doesn't know how to kick goals from open play.

The idea that he would leave the club if moved back to defence is complete nonsense.
 

dogwatch

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I thought it was interesting that his grandfather, interviewed in GF week by Lyon, said he’d still like to see him play his career as a defender.

He could still be telling Aaron that on a regular basis, so there’s no guarantee Naughton would turn his nose up at it if Bevo said it’s time to go play in defence again.

From my perspective I’d be pissed off at us having wasted three of his best years trying to make him a forward when he could have been learning how to become one of the best KPDs in the league.

Naughton had a good season as a forward this year - 47 goals and an excitement machine. I think we need to persist with him in that role now.

Put Schache, Darcy or English back if having six KPFs is too many. Never thought I’d ever see the day when the Bulldogs had an embarrassment of KPFs.
 

BEaston

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Oct 9, 2013
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I thought it was interesting that his grandfather, interviewed in GF week by Lyon, said he’d still like to see him play his career as a defender.

He could still be telling Aaron that on a regular basis, so there’s no guarantee Naughton would turn his nose up at it if Bevo said it’s time to go play in defence again.

From my perspective I’d be pissed off at us having wasted three of his best years trying to make him a forward when he could have been learning how to become one of the best KPDs in the league.

Naughton had a good season as a forward this year - 47 goals and an excitement machine. I think we need to persist with him in that role now.

Put Schache, Darcy or English back if having six KPFs is too many. Never thought I’d ever see the day when the Bulldogs had an embarrassment of KPFs.
They're not wasted years if that's what the team needed at the time.
 

CarnTheScray

Premiership Player
Jun 4, 2019
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I thought it was interesting that his grandfather, interviewed in GF week by Lyon, said he’d still like to see him play his career as a defender.

He could still be telling Aaron that on a regular basis, so there’s no guarantee Naughton would turn his nose up at it if Bevo said it’s time to go play in defence again.

From my perspective I’d be pissed off at us having wasted three of his best years trying to make him a forward when he could have been learning how to become one of the best KPDs in the league.

Naughton had a good season as a forward this year - 47 goals and an excitement machine. I think we need to persist with him in that role now.

Put Schache, Darcy or English back if having six KPFs is too many. Never thought I’d ever see the day when the Bulldogs had an embarrassment of KPFs.
Aren't winning a flag with them as key defenders sorry.
 

dogwatch

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They're not wasted years if that's what the team needed at the time.
Debatable. I guess if we won a flag with him forward there’d now be no argument. And we came within 45 minutes of doing just that.

We have no idea whether we’d have got a better outcome with Naughton in defence. Anyway I’m not into switching him back at this stage. We’ve got to persist with him forward, especially with Bruce on the sidelines until July.
 

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