List Mgmt. 2022 Trade, Draft, etc thread

[Scythe]

Dory_77 – might be worth pinning this? Gets updated after every move.

 

[MarcMaverick]

I'm not saying Goodwin = neeld, just saying that we are playing a boring style of play which reminds me of when neeld came in. Our team sucked under bailey but at least we played with an attacking flair, neeld came in and tried to implement a style that didn't work well with the list. We haven't gone that far we still try to attack we just don't do it as well as we have in the past.

Talking about bailey, Collingwoods style almost like bailey ball, it's a bit chaotic, they make it up as they go along but they can score heavily, only difference is they can defend well as well.

That and they understand the match situation very well. When they are behind they throw caution to the wind, when they are in front by a slender margin near the end of the game, they prevent any forward progress by the other team.

Some people might say its luck by how many close games they won during the season, I say its Craig Mcrae reading and assessing the situation well.

 

[stEdy]

If Trac can fix his kicking I'd like to see him spending more time forward.

We should also be using Trac as a 1v1 marking target coming out of defence. Put Gawn and everyone else on the left flank and have Trac and Fritsch/Koz out the other side, back Maysie/Salem/Bowey to put it to Trac's advantage in a 1v1 and we go from there.

We need to back our players in 1v1 marking contests coming out of defence more. Trac is one of our best 1v1 players and I don't think we used his strength advantage in marking situations 1v1 enough.

 

[MarcMaverick]

I reckon when Turner and Moniz-Wakefield are AFL ready, I'd like to see Petty move forward from time to time. With TMac probably gone, Petty would be a perfect swing-man

My Hope

F.F. Fritcsh, JVR, Petty
H.F. Petracca, Pickett, Laurie/ANB

Brown gets pushed off way too easily
Gawn caught lighting in a bottle in the Prelim last year and hasn't since
TMAc is cooked
Weid who knows where he'll end up.

We need to get creative up forward.

 

[schmuttt]

I reckon when Turner and Moniz-Wakefield are AFL ready, I'd like to see Petty move forward from time to time. With TMac probably gone, Petty would be a perfect swing-man

My Hope

F.F. Fritcsh, JVR, Petty
H.F. Petracca, Pickett, Laurie/ANB

Brown gets pushed off way too easily
Gawn caught lighting in a bottle in the Prelim last year and hasn't since
TMAc is cooked
Weid who knows where he'll end up.

We need to get creative up forward.

Pickett at CHF??????

 

[MarcMaverick]

Pickett at CHF??????

Sure. Why not.

Need to be unpredictable up forward. As it stands now there is too much emphasis on Gawn/Jackson/Brown. Teams know this. We need to lower our eyes and not kick for height but dart our kicks.

The forward structure worked last year because not many teams had any idea how to combat it. Over the off season, though, many teams went to school on our game plan and we failed to come up with a plan B until we swung Petty up forward and by then it was too late.

As much as I like Goodwin he is too focused on stability rather than volatility. The fact that we made no changes or adjustments in finals series proof of that.

Stability may have worked last year not so much this year and he didn't read the situation very well or made adjustments.

There were two weeks/games that were very contrasting. Against the Crows we had M. Brown and Weid as rucks and although people were clenching really hard it made us unpredictable. Then we brought in Gawn and Jackson against the Cats and we became too predictable.

Goodwin needed to select players on merit not because he likes them.

 

[schmuttt]

Sure. Why not.

Need to be unpredictable up forward. As it stands now there is too much emphasis on Gawn/Jackson/Brown. Teams know this. We need to lower our eyes and not kick for height but dart our kicks.

The forward structure worked last year because not many teams had any idea how to combat it. Over the off season, though, many teams went to school on our game plan and we failed to come up with a plan B until we swung Petty up forward and by then it was too late.

As much as I like Goodwin he is too focused on stability rather than volatility. The fact that we made no changes or adjustments in finals series proof of that.

Stability may have worked last year not so much this year and he didn't read the situation very well or made adjustments.

There were two weeks/games that were very contrasting. Against the Crows we had M. Brown and Weid as rucks and although people were clenching really hard it made us unpredictable. Then we brought in Gawn and Jackson against the Cats and we became too predictable.

Goodwin needed to select players on merit not because he likes them.

You always need a tall at CHF to help with that contest on the wing we usually kick to. Pickett at chf doesn’t help with that at all, if you wanted to go shorter that’s fine but position wise that doesn’t make sense.

 

[Topkent]

As good as Gawn is we play him alongside two contested beasts and somehow regularly get spanked in clearances, maybe Grundy can help that, and if so maybe our mids can score more goal.

I have a theory on this, when I watch us it feels like we plan for the perfect clearance. So you watch Oliver or Trac and they will set up and try and hit the ball at full tilt, when it comes off we get these Ripper clearance chains that result in us breaking away and scoring. But when they fumble or the miss the ball we are out of position and can get beaten just as easy. When Gawns taps aren't perfect I think we are badly out of position.

You watch other sides and they are 1-1 and then try and beat their opponent and then read the tap. I think we try and play too perfect out of there and it's why our strength is our weakness. When it's on when get the bang bang bang moments, when it's off we lose clearances despite us having the best inside mids in the comp.

 

[Topkent]

If Trac can fix his kicking I'd like to see him spending more time forward.

We should also be using Trac as a 1v1 marking target coming out of defence. Put Gawn and everyone else on the left flank and have Trac and Fritsch/Koz out the other side, back Maysie/Salem/Bowey to put it to Trac's advantage in a 1v1 and we go from there.

We need to back our players in 1v1 marking contests coming out of defence more. Trac is one of our best 1v1 players and I don't think we used his strength advantage in marking situations 1v1 enough.

Same with Harmes and Gus. Both are really good one on one in the air. I'd also like to see Harmes and Trac in the goalsquare with space but I know we don't do that.

 

[Toump Ass]

I have a theory on this, when I watch us it feels like we plan for the perfect clearance. So you watch Oliver it Trac and they will set up and try and hit the ball at full tilt, when it comes off we get these Ripper clearance chains that result in us breaking away and scoring. But when they fumble or the miss the ball we are out of position and can get beaten just as easy. When Gawns taps aren't perfect I think we are badly out of position.

You watch other sides and they are 1-1 and then try and beat their opponent and then read the tap. I think we try and play too perfect out of there and it's why our strength is our weakness. When it's on when get the bang bang bang moments, when it's off we lose clearances despite us having the best inside mids in the comp.

Yeah I reckon there's something in that. Instead of just playing football we try be too clever and almost try a set play for every contest.

Could be why we got that "bang bang bang" moment in the first place: Dogga took over the ruck so we had to rely on just getting the ball to ground and winning the clearance.

 

[Topkent]

Yeah I reckon there's something in that. Instead of just playing football we try be too clever and almost try a set play for every contest.

Could be why we got that "bang bang bang" moment in the first place: Dogga took over the ruck so we had to rely on just getting the ball to ground and winning the clearance.

Yeah and maybe some luck, bounce of the ball here and there and you can roll the dice going forward. But yea absolutely it's a set play each time, Oliver for every brilliant one touch will overrun a bad tap and be out of the contest.

 

[Scythe]

Yeah and maybe some luck, bounce of the ball here and there and you can roll the dice going forward. But yea absolutely it's a set play each time, Oliver for every brilliant one touch will overrun a bad tap and be out of the contest.

Don't have any concrete evidence to back this up, but I noticed a few times later in the year that the most damaging midfielder would rotate around next to Petracca at a centre bounce and almost allow him have a run at it. Petracca would charge through the front of the stoppage like he usually does, but if we didn't end up with the ball, his man would be free to exit on the other side of the stoppage. Saw it with Neale a few times the last two times we played them, and also noticed it with Mills/Warner (granted, he was hampered in those two games). Carlton tried it with Docherty too.

It makes sense – as good as Trac is, he's absolutely attack-focused at nearly all times, so teams have the option to take a gamble at stoppages. Obviously it can unravel for the other team if Gawn and Trac are syncing up well, but that happened less and less this year, and seemed to make us more vulnerable to conceding scores out of the middle.

 

[Benwah83]

I have a theory on this, when I watch us it feels like we plan for the perfect clearance. So you watch Oliver or Trac and they will set up and try and hit the ball at full tilt, when it comes off we get these Ripper clearance chains that result in us breaking away and scoring. But when they fumble or the miss the ball we are out of position and can get beaten just as easy. When Gawns taps aren't perfect I think we are badly out of position.

You watch other sides and they are 1-1 and then try and beat their opponent and then read the tap. I think we try and play too perfect out of there and it's why our strength is our weakness. When it's on when get the bang bang bang moments, when it's off we lose clearances despite us having the best inside mids in the comp.

Agree with the center bounce set play assessment - it certainly passes the eye test. Feels like we put all our chips in on the clean clearance -> quick goal option. Looks great when it works, but if the tap is no good or the opposition has figured out what's going on, it backfires badly.

Would rather we go with the set play 20/30% of the time (or and least have some game awareness and only go for it if we know Gawn is well on top in the ruck), and just have those starting in the center focus on winning their 1 on 1 contest the other times, which they should more that 50% of the time anyway given the apparent quality in there.

 

[Topkent]

Agree with the center bounce set play assessment - it certainly passes the eye test. Feels like we put all our chips in on the clean clearance -> quick goal option. Looks great when it works, but if the tap is no good or the opposition has figured out what's going on, it backfires badly.

Would rather we go with the set play 20/30% of the time (or and least have some game awareness and only go for it if we know Gawn is well on top in the ruck), and just have those starting in the center focus on winning their 1 on 1 contest the other times, which they should more that 50% of the time anyway given the apparent quality in there.

Yeah round 23 last year against the cats they basically had their own bang bang bang against us in the second quarter it's how they got 7 goals infront. Feels like it's genuinely all or nothing in the middle for us

 

[ABray10]

Yeah round 23 last year against the cats they basically had their own bang bang bang against us in the second quarter it's how they got 7 goals infront. Feels like it's genuinely all or nothing in the middle for us

Yep, I think you might be onto something here. Didn't see it until you pointed it out but our games are making a bit more sense now.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

I have a theory on this, when I watch us it feels like we plan for the perfect clearance. So you watch Oliver or Trac and they will set up and try and hit the ball at full tilt, when it comes off we get these Ripper clearance chains that result in us breaking away and scoring. But when they fumble or the miss the ball we are out of position and can get beaten just as easy. When Gawns taps aren't perfect I think we are badly out of position.

You watch other sides and they are 1-1 and then try and beat their opponent and then read the tap. I think we try and play too perfect out of there and it's why our strength is our weakness. When it's on when get the bang bang bang moments, when it's off we lose clearances despite us having the best inside mids in the comp.

Yep. The proof of this is the way that we often get the ball in a centre square clearance with someone free to kick into the 50 and instead they try and handball to each other to get running out the front.

Our entire centre square gameplan seems structured to replicate the last 3 minutes of the thrid quarter 2021 GF.

 

[Topkent]

Yep. The proof of this is the way that we often get the ball in a centre square clearance with someone free to kick into the 50 and instead they try and handball to each other to get running out the front.

Our entire centre square gameplan seems structured to replicate the last 3 minutes of the thrid quarter 2021 GF.

And it works plenty, ANB kicked a ripping goal against Collingwood I think in the game at the G in the last out of the middle from running and handballing. Me mate text me said one of the best centre bounce goals he'd ever seen.

Problem is we can't stem the bleeding the other way when we start losing them

 

[danster168]

If Trac can fix his kicking I'd like to see him spending more time forward.

We should also be using Trac as a 1v1 marking target coming out of defence. Put Gawn and everyone else on the left flank and have Trac and Fritsch/Koz out the other side, back Maysie/Salem/Bowey to put it to Trac's advantage in a 1v1 and we go from there.

We need to back our players in 1v1 marking contests coming out of defence more. Trac is one of our best 1v1 players and I don't think we used his strength advantage in marking situations 1v1 enough.

It's a massive If. He's one of the worst shots at goal in the afl. I can't see him turning things around. I want him in the midfield and nowhere else. He kicks just as many goals from the midfield anyway. We also can't bank on Tom McDonald being afl standard anymore. Especially with his injuries.

 

[Scythe]

It's a massive If. He's one of the worst shots at goal in the afl. I can't see him turning things around. I want him in the midfield and nowhere else. He kicks just as many goals from the midfield anyway. We also can't bank on Tom McDonald being afl standard anymore. Especially with his injuries.

He's kicked 26.6 in a season before, and is 123.87 for his career outside of this year. No reason he can't turn it around.

 

[danster168]

He's kicked 26.6 in a season before, and is 123.87 for his career outside of this year. No reason he can't turn it around.

That does actually surprise me. I'd like a breakdown of his set shots though because he is a much better snap around the corner than a set shot. I do agree that something needs to be done with the forward line.

I'm not a fan of mark Robinson but I'm glad he asked Simon Goodwin why we are wasting our time trying to bring in a ruckman when we need a key forward.

 

[Topkent]

Let's say for arguments sake the Grundy deal is inevitable, would people rather pay a high pick and have the pies cover alot of his salary, or a low pick and pay most of it. Cause it really does feel like we are gonna give up a late first for him but have the pies cover 300 per year.

 

[stEdy]

It's not just our games, but across the league I find there aren't many repeat stoppages from a centre bounce. Teams have gotten a lot better at generating clearances through breaking tackles/fast hands

 

[stEdy]

Same with Harmes and Gus. Both are really good one on one in the air. I'd also like to see Harmes and Trac in the goalsquare with space but I know we don't do that.

Yep, against Sydney Gawn had the ball 70m out and had Harmes streaming back to the square with a smaller Swans defender back pedaling in a genuine 1v1 - get it into him!

 

[Crusty Demon]

The more I think about it the more the Grundy deal stinks. Could probably get Meek for steak knives in the Jackson deal. He's young, looks a promising competitor which is all we need. Yet Lions are looking likely to snag Dunkley and Gunston who are 2 players that could fit perfectly on our list. But hey we give up high $$ for Grundy and potentially a low first round pick. Our F50 remains a disaster. Imagine adding Dunkley and Gunston!! Lions adding Ashcroft as well who should have similar impact as Daicos this year. But hey, we have 2 awesome rucks who can't play forward to save themselves! Wtf are we doing?

 

[Toump Ass]

It's a massive If. He's one of the worst shots at goal in the afl. I can't see him turning things around.

Thought he was pretty good last year, 29.19 isn't horrendous. Was basically the opposite this year: 19 goals 31 behinds 142 OOTF.

His set shots are what kills him, basically the longer he has to kick the goal the greater the chance he ****s it up. If he kicks off one step from anywhere without thinking about it he's fine.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Let's say for arguments sake the Grundy deal is inevitable, would people rather pay a high pick and have the pies cover alot of his salary, or a low pick and pay most of it. Cause it really does feel like we are gonna give up a late first for him but have the pies cover 300 per year.

I'm not sure there will be a lot of flexibility on the salary negotiation, Pies need to get rid of a certain amount which is why they're getting rid of him and, presumably, we can't afford to pay him anything close to a million a year.

Let's say Pies want to pay $200k and we want them to pay $300k - $100k can't be worth that much in terms of higher/lower draft picks. Maybe late first instead of early second (or vice versa) at most?

Personally my preference is to lowball them on both salary and draft pick and walk away if the price isn't right. But sounds like that's not the way it's going down because we are Nice Guys who Get Deals Done TM.