List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[Captain Paddy]

Battle is very similar in size to May.

May has the benefit of the having a major focus on team defence with their mids wingers pushing back deep which always him to guard grass a lot.

Our mids are lazy as hell and DMac was elite at getting back deep and helping out but the other wingers not so much.

If we fix our team defence and restrict how easily teams can move the ball forward, I think we have three pretty elite key defenders.

Someone just tell Howard that he can mark it occasionally and doesn’t have to lead the league in spoils every year

 

[saint66au]

Seems to me we've locked away our first couple of picks at least to take to the Draft...and Im very OK with that. If DeGoey wasn't FA we wouldn't be anywhere near him.

Saints fans bleat that we aren't heavy hitters during Trade Week then in the same breath complain we dont have a pick til 55 when we are active in Trade Week.

Cant have both.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Because that's what we do considering there's nothing else for us to talk about at this time of year....

15 year old boy says hold my energy drink

Teenage boy gets USB cable stuck in penis as doc forced to surgically remove it

The cable became knotted after the boy inserted it and he was unable to remove it.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

 

[magd2992]

15 year old boy says hold my energy drink

Teenage boy gets USB cable stuck in penis as doc forced to surgically remove it

The cable became knotted after the boy inserted it and he was unable to remove it.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

Cheers for this.

 

[stavro#4]

Battle is very similar in size to May.

May has the benefit of the having a major focus on team defence with their mids wingers pushing back deep which always him to guard grass a lot.

Our mids are lazy as hell and DMac was elite at getting back deep and helping out but the other wingers not so much.

If we fix our team defence and restrict how easily teams can move the ball forward, I think we have three pretty elite key defenders.

Someone just tell Howard that he can mark it occasionally and doesn’t have to lead the league in spoils every year

There is a 10kg difference.

That changes their roles dramatically

 

[Joffaboy]

Seems to me we've locked away our first couple of picks at least to take to the Draft...and Im very OK with that. If DeGoey wasn't FA we wouldn't be anywhere near him.

Saints fans bleat that we aren't heavy hitters during Trade Week then in the same breath complain we dont have a pick til 55 when we are active in Trade Week.

Cant have both.

Exactly

 

[Veer Right]

I don't think anyone on here can shed any light on what is going on down at Moorabbin because we wouldn't have a clue.
I get that it's a discussion forum but what's the using in having conniption over something that may or may not be happening. It's madness to decide that the club is 'cooked' over a tweet that asks whether something is happening.
I'm not especially excited about Giles Cardigan either but just because it's the only tweet we've seen doesn't mean it's going to happen, or is even being actually considered by the club.
This forum is becoming a bed wetters paradise.

The clubs history contradicts your thoughts. The club frequently follows through on trading in old has-beens. The very thing you are denying.

 

[stfan]

15 year old boy says hold my energy drink

Teenage boy gets USB cable stuck in penis as doc forced to surgically remove it

The cable became knotted after the boy inserted it and he was unable to remove it.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

So what length did you get for yours then?

 

[Veer Right]

If we don’t think Howard or Battle can stand on the monster forwards (I think Battle can do it personally)

We’d be better off going and promising Ratugolea a full season at full back. He can chop put in the ruck as well

Far to young to be considered.

 

[AirWinmar]

A 30 year old who never seemed any good for a 25 year old lightly raced convert who you would think could still improve? For a two year contract? I'm with gringo2011.

Same, I thought Joyce was OK and had a good trajectory of improvement. Got crucified after coming in for his 1st game in the 1sts in 16 rounds and making a couple of mistakes. Apparently some other clubs sniffing so we may see him in other colours next year. Hope he gets another chance

 

[Captain Paddy]

There is a 10kg difference.

That changes their roles dramatically

There’s no way it’s still that much when you look at them.

Nearly 7 years difference between them as well and May as really only been elite like he is now for 3-4 years.

Just think we’re very quick to find a Band-Aid fix instead of looking within and giving time to develop

 

[BrutThough]

Right now, we don't have anyone contracted over the age of 29.

Why are we acting like we are some type of retirement village?

 

[AFLOnline]

Lol Kyle hartigan

28

Kyle Hartigan

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.3

3star

MG

111.0

2star

D

9.3

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.3

2star

MG

111.0

2star

D

18.2

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.4

5star

T

0.6

3star

Our clubs an absolute laughing stock

 

[stfan]

In 2023 Howard goes down and we’re playing Geelong next game, who plays on Hawkins?

One of our many medium sized defenders?

Oscar Adams?

Some guy from one of the State Leagues with no AFL experience?

Some kid from the under 18s who we’ve just drafted?

Someone such as Kyle Hartigan?

Kyle’s name would’ve sent shivers through my spine pre 2022 as I too would’ve seen him taking games off a developing younger player. However the recruiting of Tom Campbell, and in particular the manner in which the Saints used him, gives me some confidence that we can utilise such a player in a true ‘break glass in emergency’ situation.

If he is named it should be in place of Howard; not alongside Howard.

So as much as I’m a bit ‘meh’ about it; I’m not gonna get upset about such talk.

The problem is that our list at present, and in recent years, is simply not in the position where another win or two possibly gained from a "break glass" player coming in and making the difference in that game or two, will actually make the difference in us winning a flag.

A lot of our recruiting stuff ups in recent years have been made by our List Management Team thinking that we were only a player, or two, off winning the flag. And due to this bring in "break glass" players as back up to help in that Grand Final Tilt. So we bring in multiple back up players who are not good enough, and will only get worse (no upside), as well as trade in some supposedly good players who may be too old by the time we get our best 22 good enough to be a contender.

Even worse is that some of those back up players were actually "gawn", or injury prone (no surprise for an older players). TC has been fit and solid..but then the club mainly did not actually play him much when the glass was actually broken.

What this means though is that we are not churning through more rookies and the like to actually find more players who are genuine best 22 players.
Sinclair, Marshall and Wilkie are all rookies and also arguably all in our Top 5 players, and not just top 22.

So our "break glass" players are achieving nothing as they will not make the difference in any meaningful way as our list is not yet good enough, and are actually decreasing the odds of us improving our best 22, as well as gaining another excellent player or two.


Overall our list management approach has been one that just has our "treading water" rather than building a team that will get better and better.
Last year our list management approach was a welcome change. I am hoping for more of the same.

Draft in young talent. Be alert for a good FA if possible. Scout around for some passed over players who may still make it...but can we please stop wasting our limited list spots on older "break glass" players who have no upside.

 

[Mowman]

Lol Kyle hartigan

Our clubs an absolute laughing stock

We take all the fish that John West rejects

 

[Veer Right]

Right now, we don't have anyone contracted over the age of 29.

Why are we acting like we are some type of retirement village?

Delisting them or "retiring" them. Wasn't that obvious?

 

[D2D3]

Seems to me we've locked away our first couple of picks at least to take to the Draft...and Im very OK with that. If DeGoey wasn't FA we wouldn't be anywhere near him.

Saints fans bleat that we aren't heavy hitters during Trade Week then in the same breath complain we dont have a pick til 55 when we are active in Trade Week.

Cant have both.

I know people aren't as keen on this years draft but this is where my head is at. De Goey as a free agent I'd be happy with (I don't see it happening now, Collingwood would be mad to let him go after that final), but we need some more home grown talent. Might be a bit of hindsight but trying to take short cuts with 'big name recruits' has left us stuck mid table.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I love how people here believe everything they read.

People are convinced NWM is leaving purely because someone here suggested it and everyone started talking about it.

Now, this with Kyle Hartigan

28

Kyle Hartigan

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.3

3star

MG

111.0

2star

D

9.3

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.3

2star

MG

111.0

2star

D

18.2

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.4

5star

T

0.6

3star

from Mark Stevens

Mark Stevens

Age

50

Ht

194cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.4

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.5

4star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.8

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.4

3star

G

2.0

5star

who has less credibility than Tom Browne.

I really doubt it.

 

[Sainter1873]

I don’t see Hartigan as a bad idea. He’s depth just like Campbell. We get him for free and give him a modest salary.

Not sure why people are melting over this. We’re also heavily into De Goey, so people can’t accuse us of having no ambition. And we’ll most likely take our first and second round picks to the draft and get Mackenzie if he’s still available.

It’s not all doom and gloom.

 

[Hayes4PM]

He is better then Joyce and actually provides size to play KPD if Howard goes down.

Minimal cost to the cap.

No assets burnt.

What’s the issue?

He's crap

 

[Grav]

Are you suggesting he's been signed?

Unfortunately not, but did get a reply from the club.

 

[Munga]

Someone say we're getting a cardigan?

 

[CursingFijian]

You know what is great for young player development, having senior and experienced players alongside them to help throughout games.

Hartigan is a battler but having an experience defender alongside Adams at Sandy to take some pressure off, direct him around the ground and provide that extra defensive support will do more to improve his football than sticking another young kid alongside him and calling it development.

Yes. Just not Hartigan, please can we get somebody who actually had a career that was above average.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

He’s also won 3 B&Fs himself… which is kinda my point

The problem is that our list at present, and in recent years, is simply not in the position where another win or two possibly gained from a "break glass" player coming in and making the difference in that game or two, will actually make the difference in us winning a flag.

A lot of our recruiting stuff ups in recent years have been made by our List Management Team thinking that we were only a player, or two, off winning the flag. And due to this bring in "break glass" players as back up to help in that Grand Final Tilt. So we bring in multiple back up players who are not good enough, and will only get worse (no upside), as well as trade in some supposedly good players who may be too old by the time we get our best 22 good enough to be a contender.

Even worse is that some of those back up players were actually "gawn", or injury prone (no surprise for an older players). TC has been fit and solid..but then the club mainly did not actually play him much when the glass was actually broken.

What this means though is that we are not churning through more rookies and the like to actually find more players who are genuine best 22 players.
Sinclair, Marshall and Wilkie are all rookies and also arguably all in our Top 5 players, and not just top 22.

So our "break glass" players are achieving nothing as they will not make the difference in any meaningful way as our list is not yet good enough, and are actually decreasing the odds of us improving our best 22, as well as gaining another excellent player or two.


Overall our list management approach has been one that just has our "treading water" rather than building a team that will get better and better.
Last year our list management approach was a welcome change. I am hoping for more of the same.

Draft in young talent. Be alert for a good FA if possible. Scout around for some passed over players who may still make it...but can we please stop wasting our limited list spots on older "break glass" players who have no upside.

Bailey Humphrey is a riser up draft boards, has been compared to DeGoey. Big body, so should play next season.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Hypertheticals:
We give a delisted player (Hartigan) a 2 year contract, in the hope we can draft or trade in a replacement in that time? Hartigan is a poormans backup, but he is also filling another list spot that could be put into picking up a kid and developing them. Adding Hartigan puts the list rebuild back 2 years.

Howard is 27 yo next year, so he has 3-5 years left.

Draft a KPP or 2 this year and by 2025 they are ready to play with a 10-12 year career. Continue to add and develop kids each year until we have clubs hunting our VFL sides for options.

St Kilda have been taking the short option for over a century and it has never worked - when will they learn?