List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[Armoooo]

Cheap shot

In what world is that a cheap shot? Seems like a rational, common sense conclusion.

You can argue that he's kicking us while we're down, but we've been "down" for about 140 of our 150 year history.

 

[Sully111]

On the couch Roo was p*ssed that we're not trying for pick 7.

 

[aussierulesrules]

On the coach Roo was p*ssed that we're not trying for pick 7.

Well Nick has always been an emotional guy.

Have we all forgotten how he’d go troppo if someone didn’t pass it to him when he called for the ball, even if he had 3 blokes hanging off him!?

 

[Sully111]

Well Nick has always been an emotional guy.

Have we all forgotten how he’d go troppo if someone didn’t pass it to him when he called for the ball, even if he had 3 blokes hanging off him!?

Not sure I see the relevance.

He didn't understand our list strategy.

 

[Saints43]

The point is really that it’s all speculation. None of us, and even Jon Ralph, actually know anything about what the club is planning to do.

We get a bee in our bonnet that we’re apparently not going after Bowes, but none of us, not even Roo, would have an inking if that’s in fact true, or about the reasons why/ why not.

Maybe we did, along with 17 other clubs, and we’re told he’s not interested. Or maybe we didn’t because they’ve got other deals in mind.

And, people need to remember that Roo is a Fox Footy employee, not a St Kilda supporter, when he's on TV.
The Fox Footy mandate is to blow smoke up the tailpipe of Collingwood and Richmond, and especially Carlton and Essendon until they get on their feet. It's a ratings business.
Need to look like hard bitten journos? Use St Kilda for that.
Roo wouldn't have a clue what's going on down at St Kilda and his role in the media isn't sweetening his relationship.
Think back to the Monday he followed on from Lyon and Brown putting the boots into one of our 30 gamers. And compare with the way he squeals with delight if a 22 year old bombres player hits a target. That's his job now.

 

[gringo2011]

How much better is Frankston to Seaford and wouldn't current players live around Brighton currently?
Can't all of our players wives go and work for seek.com.au ?

They could work for Seek if the boss would add some staff. I think a lot live out Pluggers way around East Bentleigh and places where the property isn't as crazy. There are a few around Elwood still though.

I was the biggest critic of Seaford but it sounds as though the concept wasn't terrible, just the facility was poor.

Frankston oval overlooking the bay is one of the best ovals in Oz IMO. Sunset over that place looks like you are somewhere exotic. If they'd spent the money on that instead of that backwood in Seaford we would have been in a different place now. Opened my mind up a bit. It wasn't as terrible an idea as I'd originally imagined, just poorly handled.

 

[gringo2011]

In what world is that a cheap shot? Seems like a rational, common sense conclusion.

You can argue that he's kicking us while we're down, but we've been "down" for about 140 of our 150 year history.

I don't even understand what he could be thinking.... if the dollars are close it's a no brainer. It could be one of the rare times a player with poor decision making is a win for us.

 

[gringo2011]

On the coach Roo was p*ssed that we're not trying for pick 7.

It does seem weird that we are saying we have to let go of Hunter Clark and possibly Hill to get draft picks in but then when the opportunity to get a high pick and a good player for cash we don't even have a look. It looks like one of those once in a lifetime deals for a side in our position.

 

[Saints43]

Exactly how most of would be feeling about it

I wouldn't know Jack Bowes if he jumped out of my porridge but looked him up on AFL Tables.
That's an exceedingly ordinary at of numbers across five seasons.

Maybe St Kilda don't want Jack Bowes.
I know twitter has told everyone to get excited but maybe we just don't rate him, regardless of what draft picks he arrives with?

 

[bird_man]

And, people need to remember that Roo is a Fox Footy employee, not a St Kilda supporter, when he's on TV.
The Fox Footy mandate is to blow smoke up the tailpipe of Collingwood and Richmond, and especially Carlton and Essendon until they get on their feet. It's a ratings business.
Need to look like hard bitten journos? Use St Kilda for that.
Roo wouldn't have a clue what's going on down at St Kilda and his role in the media isn't sweetening his relationship.
Think back to the Monday he followed on from Lyon and Brown putting the boots into one of our 30 gamers. And compare with the way he squeals with delight if a 22 year old bombres player hits a target. That's his job now.

I doubt ratings had anything to do with it.

He's a St Kilda supporter like the rest of us and would have been hoping we'd be in a great position to take on some salary and take a high pick that we desperately need.

All past players wear their heart on their sleeves at times. Seen the same with Brown and the Lyons and Lyon on the Demons.

Fair chance he's just starting to lose a little faith in the direction we are going

 

[aussierulesrules]

Not sure I see the relevance.

The relevance is that it doesn’t take much for him to get pissed off.

He didn't understand our list strategy.

Probably because like us he’s not on the inside and hasn’t been informed of what our strategy is, in particular what’s going on with this Bowes situation.

I seem to recall him being opposed to us bringing Hanners in late in the season, only for him to one of our best and help us get over the line in that game, and then get 3 Brownlow votes two games later.

 

[hayes]

Not sure I see the relevance.

He didn't understand our list strategy.

We have a strategy?

 

[bird_man]

I wouldn't know Jack Bowes if he jumped out of my porridge but looked him up on AFL Tables.
That's an exceedingly ordinary at of numbers across five seasons.

Maybe St Kilda don't want Jack Bowes.
I know twitter has told everyone to get excited but maybe we just don't rate him, regardless of what draft picks he arrives with?

It's more about getting pick 7 than it is about Bowes.

And I wouldn't be making some large assumptions on a player I had no idea who they were based off nothing but AFL tables.

Bowes looked like he was tracking to be a very good player in the first half of last year prior to injury. He then had shoulder surgery at the start of this year.

He's clearly getting over paid but he won't find any issues finding a club that fancies him.

 

[heynow85]

Not sure I see the relevance.

He didn't understand our list strategy.

What is our list strategy?

 

[stavro#4]

In what world is that a cheap shot? Seems like a rational, common sense conclusion.

You can argue that he's kicking us while we're down, but we've been "down" for about 140 of our 150 year history.

If we land JDG and they lose him.

Which list looks better?

 

[Sully111]

What is our list strategy?

no f*ing idea mate

 

[Klaatu]

In what world is that a cheap shot? Seems like a rational, common sense conclusion.

You can argue that he's kicking us while we're down, but we've been "down" for about 140 of our 150 year history.

It's inappropriate for a coach to comment on another club, ever heard any other coach do it, sounds like a desperate man pleading with a player to stay & how was his club going when Eddie was in charge didn't they just go through an investigation over their handling of indeginous players.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Always loved Roo obviously as a supporter he was a great man for our club in his playing days.
And I was excited for his transition into the media, I thought finally someone on our side! When ling, darcy, G.lyon constantly earbashing us.

But he’s turning into a lame kornes/ Andrew gaze type behind the camera.

 

[Klaatu]

What is our list strategy?

To make it better then the previous season.

 

[Saints43]

Cheap shot

Fox Footy pumps up the big rating clubs.
No different to the Herald Sun.

And their employees are instructed to do it.
If you didn't have access to the game results and just listened to Joey talk about essendon and Carlton you'd assume they were currently great teams.

 

[Saint Shags]

My whole argument is we don't have the info, well when the reasons come out the fan base will be left wondering.

Does that mean that the possible reasons won't be looked at too positively by the fan base?

 

[gringo2011]

The relevance is that it doesn’t take much for him to get pissed off.


Probably because like us he’s not on the inside and hasn’t been informed of what our strategy is, in particular what’s going on with this Bowes situation.

I seem to recall him being opposed to us bringing Hanners in late in the season, only for him to one of our best and help us get over the line in that game, and then get 3 Brownlow votes two games later.

That's part of the frustration, the plan doesn't seem to be very obvious. Are we rebuilding? Are we challenging? Refreshing but then why DeGoey? None of it looks very linear at the moment. I'd be more confident if the club said that we are looking to do a quick refresh through the draft and did it in a disciplined sensible way with all players on board with it.

It feels like they prefer to keep quiet about plans or direction to keep membership up but then come across as a bit dishonest or incompetent. If we spend the next few seasons taking our draft picks they usually take around 5 years to hit their peak and that's if you pump games into them.

DeGoey will be 31 by the time the guys taken this year will be peaking and he'll be one of the senior leaders at the club.

I'm not sure he's the guy I'd bring in to lead a group of youth. Although maybe they just want a bit of razzle-dazzle for the fans while we rebuild?

 

[Diehard Saint]

This time of the year dropping in to read and keep updated you have to keep balance and in touch with reality. From Chicken Littles with the sky is falling, to those jumping at shadows, delusion and paranoia run rampant.

From the rush to microwave memberships because the club was recruiting Kyle Hartigan from Hawthorn, to disappointment that JDG is not coming to St Kilda, to Saints refusing to even entertain discussions with Suns to take on player and pick 7, there is no end to anger at rumours and rubbish.

The rules for trading and drafting sanity:

1. Just because a click bait journo, or 13 year on an Internet forum says its so, it may not be

2. Saints (and every other club) is investigating every possible scenario. If you see another club doing a trade etc, don't then assume that we didn't also examine it. We either didn't want that player, the player didn't want to come to us, he is too expensive, we can't fit him under our salary cap, or that we don't have the trade capital to make it happen

3. The fact that the St Kilda admin is not telegraphing every possible move they are making publicly is a POSITIVE. Best negotiations are done quietly and professionally, not alerting everyone to what you are doing, or thinking

4. Sometimes this time of the year, it is the thrill of the chase. Whilst the hunt and chase is exhilarating, it is better to take a calculated approach with who comes in, who departs and who we draft.

5. If you see a scenario that involves more than two parties, it will rarely happen. Complicated trades that involve 4 clubs, 8 picks, a sheep dog and a handful of beans are fun, but fantasy

6. Bringing up an isolated past error from a trade, or draft is irrelevant. The only people who don't make errors are those who don't make decisions, or make decisions with the benefit of hindsight

7. Sometimes the best purchase is the one you walk away from.

8. Most importantly…wait till AFTER the trade period before judging the list management team…and THEN set fire to the joint if you must!





* no criminal activity was encouraged by this post!

 

[Saints43]

It's more about getting pick 7 than it is about Bowes.

And I wouldn't be making some large assumptions on a player I had no idea who they were based off nothing but AFL tables.

Bowes looked like he was tracking to be a very good player in the first half of last year prior to injury. He then had shoulder surgery at the start of this year.

He's clearly getting over paid but he won't find any issues finding a club that fancies him.

But Bowes comes with pick 7.
And needs to be paid massive wages for the next two seasons at least.
Maybe Bowes isn't much good and it's too much money to invest in someone who's not very good.
Roo can get upset about the money paid to Hannebery because he didn't ever play but he was a superstar at one stage.
Maybe getting pick 7 doesn't justify getting Bowes wages and opportunity cost down the road.
And, that's assuming the just chuck pick 7 in with no expectation of anything back. Which i doubt.

 

[gringo2011]

It's more about getting pick 7 than it is about Bowes.

And I wouldn't be making some large assumptions on a player I had no idea who they were based off nothing but AFL tables.

Bowes looked like he was tracking to be a very good player in the first half of last year prior to injury. He then had shoulder surgery at the start of this year.

He's clearly getting over paid but he won't find any issues finding a club that fancies him.

Playing mids off HBF isn't always a great way make a player look exciting as well. I have spoken to a couple of mates who are bigger watchers of other sides and they think he was a slow developer but thought he was just coming good. Sounds like Sinclair where he was a GOP but started to surge.... but then got a serious injury that required surgery. They think he's more than steak knives. Gold Coast have a history of pushing guys out.