2022 Victorian State Election-November 26

[PJays]

This is correct.

I'm interested PJays if you think The Age is still centre-left (despite not having been that for years now), where do you place the ABC on the political spectrum?

I'd rate the Age as centre-left or centrist. Either is fair.

I'm an occasional reader of the ABC. So I'm less confident in my rating compared to The Age- which I read every day.

But I also view The ABC as centre-left or centrist. Similar to The Age. Probably slightly left of The Age but in the same general vicinity.

Definitely not right of centre. But not too far from the middle and out-of-touch with the majority either (like say, The Guardian or some of Herald Sun's big names- Panahi, Bolt. Or the entire Herald Sun assault against Andrews)

 

[Chadwiko]

If you think The Age is centre-left, that explains a lot about why you think the Coalition took a "centrist" platform to this recent election.

 

[PJays]

If you think The Age is centre-left, that explains a lot about why you think the Coalition took a "centrist" platform to this recent election.

I've stated probably 5 or 6 times now that I rate them centre-left or centrist.

But they are categorically, unemphatically not right of centre.

Again, only the severely ideologically captured could possibly suggest they are.

 

[Gough]

If you think The Age is centre-left, that explains a lot about why you think the Coalition took a "centrist" platform to this recent election.

As a comparatively high taxing government, the Morrison government was certainly socialist in that respect, it's just that to be a beneficiary from the redistribution of this wealth very much depended on your proximity to the Liberal Party.

 

[morningbrown]

Plenty of talk in this thread about Liberal being out of touch, or too right wing, or whatever else

2 questions

1. What policies did they present that they shouldn’t have?
2. What policies would you have proposed?

Or, is it not about policies but more about messaging and presentation and appearance?

Here are some suggestions:

• Replace stamp duty with a yearly tax for first home buyers- as Liberal in NSW just did. Make it an optional system. This would appeal to younger voters, help with housing affordability, and improve the budget with better long term structural integrity (although there would be a hit over the first 10 years or more, I assume). Win-win-win policy in the public interest. The catch would be the short-term budget hole this would create, but it wouldn’t be huge. They actually did promise to scrap stamp duty for all first home buyers for 12 months from 1 January. But why only 12 months? Replace this with a yearly tax and it becomes a sustainable policy, rather than something which looks like a gimmick buying votes. Some people spend years trying to find the right house for them.

• Scrap vaccine mandates for health care workers, disability workers and aged care workers. We regularly hear about the health crisis- this week it was 12 hour waits at the RCH, and code reds/oranges in the ambulances. Meanwhile there’s hundreds of paramedics and nurses not working. Most Victorians don’t care if their nurse is vaccinated, they just want to be looked after quickly and competently.

What are your ideas?

Just wanna circle back to the bolded. Bringing unvaxxed health workers back in could have even more disastrous effects as they will likely spread covid more and put immunocompromised patients at risk. And there's not hundreds of workers that left due to the mandates. It's likely less than 2 or 3% of the workforce. What a stupid suggestion.

Ah yes the very left wing Adem Somyurek hey PJays

Come at us you rat dog Adem.

 

[PJays]

Bringing unvaxxed health workers back in could have even more disastrous effects as they will likely spread covid more and put immunocompromised patients at risk.

What's the evidence for this- exactly how much riskier are they with catching and transmitting covid?

And remember we're talking about new strains- omicron and omicron sub strains. So any studies when delta was dominant are irrelevant.

It's likely less than 2 or 3% of the workforce. What a stupid suggestion.

Even if it's 0.4% of the health workforce, that might be two or three nurses in every large hospital.

Every bit counts in an environment with the lowest Australian unemployment rate in 50 years and constant staff shortages across all industries. Especially an essential service like health.

 

[Saint]

What's the evidence for this- exactly how much more of a risk are they in catching and transmitting covid?

And remember we're talking about new strains- omicron and omicron sub strains. So any studies when delta was dominant are irrelevant.


Even if it's 0.4% of the health workforce, that might be two nurses in every large hospital. Every bit counts in an environment with the lowest Australian unemployment rate in 50 years and constant staff shortages across all industries. Especially an essential service like health.

I think I speak for all (98%) of patients and parents of patients when I say I'd rather the hospital were slightly short-staffed than bring in the nurses who don't believe in medicine.

 

[PJays]

I think I speak for all (98%) of patients and parents of patients when I say I'd rather the hospital were slightly short-staffed than bring in the nurses who don't believe in medicine.

Well that's a different argument

After reflecting on the responses in this thread, I'm less confident that average Victorians would be impressed by this policy suggestion

But that doesn't mean they're right.

Who's right (whose view is in the public interest) depends on the extent of additional likelihood of covid transmission, and the extent of staffing shortages.

 

[Home Alone]

What's the evidence for this- exactly how much riskier are they with catching and transmitting covid?

And remember we're talking about new strains- omicron and omicron sub strains. So any studies when delta was dominant are irrelevant.

Personally, I think the onus is the other way round. The unvaxxed need to provide the evidence that they are no greater risk of catching and transmitting covid.

 

[PJays]

Personally, I think the onus is the other way round. The unvaxxed need to provide the evidence that they are no greater risk of catching and transmitting covid.

You realise in some places globally, it's recommended certain groups don't take further covid boosters because of safety risks?

(eg Men under 40)

The extent of the safety risks is contentious, but clearly there's a level of risk.

Why should someone be forced to take a potentially risky medication merely to do their jobs and earn a livelihood?

The only fair answer would be this: There's strong evidence that you're putting others at significantly elevated risk by refusing to take the medication.

And I hope we'd all agree on this much, at least?

I'm asking- what is the evidence? What is the evidence that an unvaccinated health worker is significantly more likely to transmit current strains of covid than a vaccinated health worker?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You realise in some places globally, it's recommended certain groups don't take further covid boosters because of safety risks?

(eg Men under 40)

The extent of the safety risks is contentious, but clearly there's a level of risk.

Why should someone be forced to take a potentially risky medication merely to do their jobs and earn a livelihood?

The only fair answer would be this: There's strong evidence that you're putting others at significantly elevated risk by refusing to take the medication.

And I hope we'd all agree on this much, at least?

I'm asking- what is the evidence? What is the evidence that an unvaccinated health worker is significantly more likely to transmit current strains of covid than a vaccinated health worker?

Which places?

 

[Home Alone]

You realise in some places globally, it's recommended certain groups don't take further covid boosters because of safety risks?

(eg Men under 40)

The extent of the safety risks is contentious, but clearly there's a level of risk.

Why should someone be forced to take a potentially risky medication merely to do their jobs and earn a livelihood?

The only fair answer would be this: There's strong evidence that you're putting others at significantly elevated risk by refusing to take the medication.

And I hope we'd all agree on this much, at least?

I'm asking- what is the evidence? What is the evidence that an unvaccinated health worker is significantly more likely to transmit current strains of covid than a vaccinated health worker?

These points have been raised before in multiple different covid threads. I have no intention of revisiting an old argument here.

Let's just say I don't agree with your libertarian position.

 

[Gralin]

If you think The Age is centre-left, that explains a lot about why you think the Coalition took a "centrist" platform to this recent election.

also why they call themselves a centrist

"Yeah I support the Libs on racism, women, gays, religious discrimination etc, but I am also against stage 3 tax cuts so I can't be right wing because being against tax cuts is left wing in my mind and that means I'm in the middle"

 

[PJays]

also why they call themselves a centrist

"Yeah I support the Libs on racism, women, gays, religious discrimination etc, but I am also against stage 3 tax cuts so I can't be right wing because being against tax cuts is left wing in my mind and that means I'm in the middle"

Mocking and strawmanning is just your thing, isn't it?

 

[Gralin]

Mocking and strawmanning is just your thing, isn't it?

Using your own words against you is a strawman now is it?

You're idea of where the right ends and left begins is warped by US politics

Most of your views are right wing / conservative views, if you think the age is center left then you think some moderate conservative / right wing views are actually left, which puts you further right than you think you are

 

[Hank Scorpion]

Looking at some of the final country booth results, there are some fun numbers put there - lots more variation than the metro areas.

Greens got 40% in Aireys inlet and 35% in Bellbrae (v 16.7% in the whole district), 26% in Halls Gap (v 6.0%), Mids-20s through the upper Ovens and Kiewa valleys (v 8.9%), 24% at Fish Creek (v 8.4%)

Freedom Party got 15% in Broadford (v 4.2%), 14% in Cobram (v 4.8%), 13% at Heyfield (v 3.2%)

Cannabis got into double-digits at two booths in Bendigo West

In Murray Plains, Nyah West had a combined Freedom + Family First vote of 25%; Dingwall had a 92% National Primary.

 

[PJays]

Using your own words against you is a strawman now is it?

Using some words out of context while deliberately ignoring the context I went to great lengths to explain, yes.

Strawmanning.

You're idea of where the right ends and left begins is warped by US politics

What?!?

I have a mere passing interest in US politics. And I've never commented on US politics on BigFooty. In fact I don't comment on it anywhere.

Why are you pulling things out of your....?

Most of your views are right wing / conservative views,

How would you know that? Have I explained all my political views in my 100 or so posts in this thread (the only political posts I've made on BigFooty and mostly narrowly focused on specific issues relating to the recent Vic election)?

Why would a right winger vote Labor?

Even if I was a right winger- who cares? They're just labels. No one really cares what my views are and to be honest, I don't really care whether you think I'm left or right.

But what matters is understanding things correctly- and understanding media sources is part of that.... which leads me to:

if you think the age is center left

As I've said 7, 8 , 9 times now- The Age is centre left or centrist. I am not interested in arguing for specifically which is most appropriate. It is less left than it used to be. Whether it's now "centrist" or still "centre-left" would make an interesting discussion but not one that's relevant to the discussion

The context is - Several people have made the point in this thread that the Age is right wing. I was initially called "delusional" for saying "The Age is not a right wing outlet"

That is blatant nonsense. It has never been right of centre. Anybody who suggests it is simply has a very defective understanding of politics and the world of ideas and current affairs.

 

[Nikita Blue]

 

[Chadwiko]

I was initially called "delusional" for saying "The Age is not a right wing outlet"

There's a significant gap between "centre-right" and "right wing".

No one in here has said The Age is right wing. Because it's not.

It's centre-right.

 

[PJays]

There's a significant gap between "centre-right" and "right wing".

No one in here has said The Age is right wing. Because it's not.

It's centre-right.

Semantics.

It is not right of centre. Full stop.

If you think it is, you just don't have any grasp of current affairs and ideas.

 

[Chadwiko]

Semantics.

It is not right of centre. Full stop.

If you think it is, you just don't have any grasp of current affairs and ideas.

You can put your head in the sand as much as you want, but you clearly have a skewed perspective. As Gralin said, you definitely come across as a person who thinks of themself as a "centrist" but is actually conservative and you're in denial about it.

I'm done talking about The Age. Literally everyone here except you is in agreement. Reflect on that.

 

[The Punter]

You can put your head in the sand as much as you want, but you clearly have a skewed perspective. As Gralin said, you definitely come across as a person who thinks of themself as a "centrist" but is actually conservative and you're in denial about it.

I'm done talking about The Age. Literally everyone here except you is in agreement. Reflect on that.

The Age is not a right-of-centre newspaper. I guess you are wrong.

 

[PJays]

I'm done talking about The Age. Literally everyone here except you is in agreement. Reflect on that.

Maybe you should reflect on the fact that online sources indicate it's centre-left or centrist eg:

• University of Sunshine Coast - Center
• Media Bias Fact Check - Left-Centre

Maybe also reflect on the fact the editor Gay Alcorn came from The Guardian. (She recently resigned for family reasons)

 

[Chadwiko]

Cool, now two of the conservatives in here are bandying together and being wrong in unison.

Adorable.

Is this how UAP started?

 

[Chadwiko]

Here's a helpful tip for folks;

If you think Dan Andrews' government is "far-left", or even just firmly "left-wing", you're operating on an outdated political compass.