In recent years add Richmond v Brisbane 2019, Richmond v Port Adelaide 2020.
But you're right, apart from those wins (5 separate times in the last 6 seasons) it's a guaranteed loss.
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2022-Where’s the improvement coming from?
- Thread starter witsend
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In recent years add Richmond v Brisbane 2019, Richmond v Port Adelaide 2020.
But you're right, apart from those wins (5 separate times in the last 6 seasons) it's a guaranteed loss.
St Francis of Kardinia
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- Oct 19, 2021
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In my opinion-
Definitely -Selwood, Higgins, Dalhaus
Touhey the year after
Smith I think could go one more And be joined by Stanley and ceglar in their last years with Hawkins to be on the verge then as well
I think danger has years left if he goes forward and Duncan barring injury still has plenty left I reckon- with the ability to play on the flanks
Menegola has been a great pick up but I would hope he would be pushed out in two years time by younger mids
Blitz is over 30 but a fitness freak and if they dare I say it PLAY HIM AT FULLBACK I reckon he can play for another five years
End of year list changes:
So 2022- Sel, Dal, Higgins, (Narkle to request a trade unless we play him)
If Rohan doesn’t perform he will go too
2023- touhey, hawk?, menegola, smith, one or all of Stanley and ceglar And Rohan
Age at start of 2024 season - I think the below could all last till this year and play good footy- danger forward, duncan flanks and blitz fullback
Danger-33.8
Duncan-33
Blitz-33
Plenty of change but that is now I would stagger it
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I know there is a lot of pessimism around here but at least this year you can find obvious improvement in the players on the list. Last year it was really hard to see who in the best 22 was going to get better since basically everyone was fit and at least playing solid football last year. Henry makes sense as he was a bottom 6 player last year who got to the age he could really improve. Other guys at that age either weren't in the best 22 (Narkle, Ratugolea, Zuthrie) where it's a bigger step they need to make to have a real impact or they were playing pretty good footy already (O'Connor, Parfitt and Simpson in the finals).
Last year the only real place improvement was going to come was from the mature recruits. Smith gave us a very solid player, Cameron was killed by injury and Higgins really struggled so we got a bit but not a huge amount there.
You go through our list of players this year and there's no doubt we can improve especially on our late season form. I won't include players yet to debut since they're very unlikely to have a major impact:
1) Stanley - One of the few who played some of his best footy late in the year and a similar season to his finals form would be good.
2) Tuohy - Had a good year but injured at exactly the wrong time. Probably won't improve total output but being fit for finals would be a positive.
3) Parfitt - Definitely has another level to go to and was injured early against GWS so limited finals impact (was our only mid that stood up against PA).
4) Higgins - He might rediscover some form but let's be honest there's no real downside here since he had no impact.
5) Cameron - Massive potential improvement if fit.
7) Smith - Had a good year and can't expect improvement. Can be covered if he hits the wall though since he's not a key player.
8) Kolo - Just had a bad year. Has played better and can improve (or be replaced by someone better).
9) Holmes - Second year can be tough but for all the signs he didn't do a heap at AFL level so there's only really upside here.
14) Selwood - Solid but not great year. He's no superstar anymore and is replaceable if he falls away.
16) De Koning - Only upside.
17) Ratugolea - At the age where he could break out. Showed glimpses but didn't do a heap.
18) Stengle - At the age where he can maybe break out.
19) Narkle - Same with Stengle.
22) Duncan - If fit a massive improvement.
23) Rohan - Was OK during the year but did nothing in finals. Replaceable if no improvement.
24) Bews - Could go to another level. Again eminently replaceable if he falls away.
26) Hawkins - Our biggest worry by far. Still a key player.
27) Menegola - Was just ok this year. Could have a better year like 2020.
29) Guthrie - Lost his way after injury half way through the year. Huge improvement if he can be back to 2020 and first half of 2021 form.
30) Atkins - Injured in the lead up to finals after a good year and looked a shadow of his previous self.
31) Evans - Only Upside.
32) Miers - 2 broken legs this year. At an age and experience where he could massively improve.
35) Dangerfield - Horrible year with injury and suspension. Really struggled in finals. Hard to see him having less impact if fit.
37) Simpson - Huge upside if he can get fit.
38) Henry - Hard to see much improvement on last year. No reason he should drop off though.
39) Z Guthrie - Showed signs he could be a very solid player. At an age where he could improve significantly. Doubt he can be any more than an honest defender but could definitely push Bews, Kolo and Atkins.
40) Dahlhaus - If the rest of our forwards are fit unlike last year he'll struggle to get a game unless he gets back towards his best.
42) O'Connor - Massively important and huge improvement if he stays fit.
44) Stewart - Obviously massive improvement if he stays fit.
45) Close - Good year and good finals series. Couldn't expect much more this year but improvement is still possible.
46) Blicavs - Was just ok this year by his standards. Can definitely improve.
That's a lot of guys who can improve and really only Hawkins of the older players where we really rely on him in a major way when we're playing well (not to be confused with us relying on Selwood and Danger because a bunch of mids are injured. A fit and firing Guthrie, Duncan, O'Connor and Parfitt will mean we don't need Selwood and Danger to carry the midfield).
Last year the only real place improvement was going to come was from the mature recruits. Smith gave us a very solid player, Cameron was killed by injury and Higgins really struggled so we got a bit but not a huge amount there.
You go through our list of players this year and there's no doubt we can improve especially on our late season form. I won't include players yet to debut since they're very unlikely to have a major impact:
1) Stanley - One of the few who played some of his best footy late in the year and a similar season to his finals form would be good.
2) Tuohy - Had a good year but injured at exactly the wrong time. Probably won't improve total output but being fit for finals would be a positive.
3) Parfitt - Definitely has another level to go to and was injured early against GWS so limited finals impact (was our only mid that stood up against PA).
4) Higgins - He might rediscover some form but let's be honest there's no real downside here since he had no impact.
5) Cameron - Massive potential improvement if fit.
7) Smith - Had a good year and can't expect improvement. Can be covered if he hits the wall though since he's not a key player.
8) Kolo - Just had a bad year. Has played better and can improve (or be replaced by someone better).
9) Holmes - Second year can be tough but for all the signs he didn't do a heap at AFL level so there's only really upside here.
14) Selwood - Solid but not great year. He's no superstar anymore and is replaceable if he falls away.
16) De Koning - Only upside.
17) Ratugolea - At the age where he could break out. Showed glimpses but didn't do a heap.
18) Stengle - At the age where he can maybe break out.
19) Narkle - Same with Stengle.
22) Duncan - If fit a massive improvement.
23) Rohan - Was OK during the year but did nothing in finals. Replaceable if no improvement.
24) Bews - Could go to another level. Again eminently replaceable if he falls away.
26) Hawkins - Our biggest worry by far. Still a key player.
27) Menegola - Was just ok this year. Could have a better year like 2020.
29) Guthrie - Lost his way after injury half way through the year. Huge improvement if he can be back to 2020 and first half of 2021 form.
30) Atkins - Injured in the lead up to finals after a good year and looked a shadow of his previous self.
31) Evans - Only Upside.
32) Miers - 2 broken legs this year. At an age and experience where he could massively improve.
35) Dangerfield - Horrible year with injury and suspension. Really struggled in finals. Hard to see him having less impact if fit.
37) Simpson - Huge upside if he can get fit.
38) Henry - Hard to see much improvement on last year. No reason he should drop off though.
39) Z Guthrie - Showed signs he could be a very solid player. At an age where he could improve significantly. Doubt he can be any more than an honest defender but could definitely push Bews, Kolo and Atkins.
40) Dahlhaus - If the rest of our forwards are fit unlike last year he'll struggle to get a game unless he gets back towards his best.
42) O'Connor - Massively important and huge improvement if he stays fit.
44) Stewart - Obviously massive improvement if he stays fit.
45) Close - Good year and good finals series. Couldn't expect much more this year but improvement is still possible.
46) Blicavs - Was just ok this year by his standards. Can definitely improve.
That's a lot of guys who can improve and really only Hawkins of the older players where we really rely on him in a major way when we're playing well (not to be confused with us relying on Selwood and Danger because a bunch of mids are injured. A fit and firing Guthrie, Duncan, O'Connor and Parfitt will mean we don't need Selwood and Danger to carry the midfield).
No you have to be fair mate - 2 weeks earlier the Lions beat Rich ( eventual premiers ) fair and square - and the Tigers threw everything bar the kitchen sink at them . That PF win by Geelong was a very very good win
The last 2 GF have been bizarre - Geel 22pts in front - terrible conditions - and then you look at the final scores - pretty crushing for Cats supporters
But last year was about 1000 times more crushing for Dogs supporters - 20 odd pts up in the 3rd qtr - totally in control - one more goal and i thought Melb were finished - you go out for a walk for an hour - and come back in - and your told Oh look the Dees won by 13 goals - incredible
Pure_Ownage
TheBrownDog
Higgins Dahlhaus certain..selwood likely i reckon.
Rohan probably delist as much as retirement.
Smith and Hawkins are playing well enough to keep going if they want.
Ceglar will stay for 2023 as 2yr contract.
Stanley and Tuohy would be 50/50 i think if they stay healthy maybe they go on.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
What would you guess if we won that elusive flag in 2022?
I would not mind a slightly larger exodus
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Go back to 2012 and not one person would’ve called Hawkins possibly (probably) playing a year longer than Selwood
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Rohan would probably be happy to go out with a Norm Smith
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
Human nature-- if we were to win it, we'd probably all be thinking, "how good, why not next year again?"
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
Won't be much in it at the end I suspect.
True... shows how all credit to Ling then ... 30 and see you later after a flag.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
And Corey? Someone else of triple flag fame left with him...Ottens?
Its a competition wide trend. Free agency has made clubs value their older players more. Having a higher TPP has incentivised older players to hang on for those extra years. You used to be considered old if you were 28 in a bottom 8 team. Milburn was 29 in 07 half our 22 would be older than him.
This is how I feel
Thought after another poor finals series we finally would be doing a total reset but we are shackled to more of the same because of the contract situation
We are basically wasting a year of much needed development
St Francis of Kardinia
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100 percent this is where our improvement will come from- forward pocket retired coach trying to outmatched a Coleman medalists
Eagan, Byrnes, Kelly, Betts, Grigg bringing a bit of joy back to the place!
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He's only 37 and we've got 1 list spot left...
Pure_Ownage
TheBrownDog
I mean that did happen in 2011 (ottens ling etc going after a flag) and i think it might..it could be enough to make another 2 or 3 of the over 30s retire on a high. The ones who are in good form and clearly best 10 players will probably go on regardless (unless they lose the motivation) but your fringe guys (ie stanley rohan etc are the obvious names that come to mind) probably think of retiring rather than waiting until they get pushed out of the side if we win a flag. Personally id prefer no more than 3 or 4 of the vets to go in one year (which is why id delist higgins dahl rohan and assuming sel wants to retire thats 4 and id convince the other older guys to keep going) we have a lot of over 28s and very few in thr 24-28yo age bracket so if we retire all the old guys at once we will be chucking too many kids in the deep end without vets to guide them. Unless we bring in a few free agents in that 24-28 bracket this year we need to keep on some of the older guys for 1-2 more years for mentoring purposes even if they are playing mainly in the vfl (which is the role i expect higgins and dahl to do this year).
Pure_Ownage
TheBrownDog
Honestly in 2013 i would have said both hawk and sel would be retired by this year so both have done so well to keep playing and at such a high level. Hawk looks super fit and hopefully if JC plays 22 games and can take the load off him he can squeeze out another 2-3 years. Sel looks a bit more battered and we are not as structurally reliant on him (leadership wise we are which is why we need to find an off field role for him when he retires but in an on field sense we need hawk more than sel) so it wouldnt surprise me if this year is his last although if we manage his gametime that might extend his career.
I don't think there's a player in the competition now who voluntarily retires. The money is so good, they'd be nuts to walk away from it. They'll only retire when the club tells them they're getting delisted.
Cameron looks to be caught out of position v Byrnes
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I'm tipping Shagger didn't get a fingertip on that.
They offered Ottens half a season , come back mid year... and he still said no. One can only draw a comparison to others who seemed to require an oxy torch to cut them out..
Professionalism in general has changed the way its thought about. What was the blokes name at Melb that kicked 18 and and retired to the country at 25 years old...
FA. has changed things to a degree..but it also the the number of clubs, the draft. ..and not being able to access quality players..and at the same time.. players having more control... so even if you draft players..they could pack up and want out. .. It makes the older guys wanting to come to a club easy to get , cheap and probably effective to a point. If we had won a flag doing it, we may have change the system.
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