2022-Where’s the improvement coming from?

[Partridge]

I agree. Throw in the injury to Guthrie, who missed a chunk and then was a different player when he returned. He was an All Australian mid last season. And too many are dismissing how interrupted Dangers season was. With a clean run next he will return to one of the best players in the league. He too, All Australian captain last year.

This is the problem with some of the awards now, they're awarded on reputation rather than current output.

Dangerfield not only shouldn't have been AA captain last year, he shouldn't have made the team. But now people look back and say "see he's still awesome fully fit because he was AA captain last year". He's still good, but nowhere near the 2016-2017 player anymore. In home and away he's become far more patchy and finals even worse.

 

[Partridge]

The thing with incremental improvement and decline is that it’s incremental! My (hopeful) point in the OP is that for a team to win a Premiership, a remarkable amount of planets need to align with injury, form, confidence, consistency of structure, game-plan execution, timing, opposition form and confidence etc.
Some things make a huge difference in themselves and can have a flow-on effect, over and above.
Tom Stewart’s absence was a MAJOR problem. It was in an area of the ground we could ill afford instability, and as our inarguably best player this year, it took the rug out from under our get, trashed our confidence and lost us a great deal of on-field leadership and structure.
Add in extended layoffs from Cameron and Duncan.
Not ideal.
Now, does that mean we didn’t make mistakes and have structural deficiencies to fill-in and game-plan adjustments to make? Of course not.
But to say we will fall off a cliff is overtly pessimistic and possibly disingenuous.
I would also not that there are posters on here who are eternally pessimistic. I guess they can comfort themselves that over 20 years they’ll eventually get it right.

You can include me in that group. For one massive reason.

We now have not just a few, but far too many players on the wrong side of 30. In the mystical fairyland posters like to inhabit it doesn't matter. But in the real world and especially finals football it does. There's barely a key player on the list who isn't over 30 or already in decline. Again, in fantasyland we can pretend it won't matter, as no one ages. But unfortunately as we saw against Port and brutally against Melbourne, it does.

You can call it pessimism, i call it realism. The minute they started giving away picks for established players, the risk was if no flags came of it we were going to have a hole in the list, less younger guys coming through, which leads to a longer and darker decline. I don't take joy in the club failing, I don't apologise for taking great joy in watching those who hurled abuse at me get proven wrong. And I won't stop reminding them either.

 

[Tackle_happy]

Every Blues player shaving their head for Sam Docherty is the kinda love for each other that I miss seeing amongst our playing group. We were Melbourne 2021 in 2007 and it’s just a different vibe. Too many egos possibly.

That's why I am happy we have Kelly back and Betts too. Both of them have a relaxed attitude that might bring back some fun to the group.

 

[thecatattack]

We need to inject youth and that youth needs to step up. They need to take the game on fearlessly and effectively.

I think the faster we play the better it will be for the likes of Hawkins and Cameron.

 

[Cattery]

According to Twitter, Freo has offered Clark a 4-year deal and it looks like pick 22 will get it done from Geelong's perspective.

One of the best young prospects we've had for some time, and "if" handled correctly and given the opportunity will in my view be an excellent long term player for us.
If we let him go we're off our heads.

 

[thecatattack]

One of the best young prospects we've had for some time, and "if" handled correctly and given the opportunity will in my view be an excellent long term player for us.
If we let him go we're off our heads.

It sucks because he was playing every game as a rookie, he played 18, and then he got hurt from a Zac Smith tackle at training and was never able to break back into our side.

That injury could be one massive what if moment in our history.

 

[Matthew Jelley]

- Cameron, Duncan, Stewart more games as many have said
- Ratugolea and Close to kick 25+ each
- Parfitt to lift to the next level
- More dare

 

[STPer18]

Back in the younger players. I think it was when Scott first arrived or in one of his earlier years, but he basically said if it's a 50/50 selection call between an older player and a younger one, they'll give preference to the younger one. In the last couple of years they've flipped that philosophy around and prefer to play it safe with an underperforming senior player.

Also start picking blokes on current output not past performance. Of course I'm not saying if Hawkins or Stewart have a quiet couple of weeks they should get dumped, but who cares that Jack Steven

9

Jack Steven

Age

34

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.7

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.8

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

won 20 BnFs at the Saints, or if James Brayshaw is madly in love with Shaun Higgins

4

Shaun Higgins

Age

36

Ht

184cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.4

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.0

4star

D

21.8

5star

K

10.3

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.6

4star

G

0.1

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.6

3star

, if they're playing like crap they lose their spot until they improve.

Nathan Jones carried Melbourne for years, but there are a handful of kids who are now premiership players that you wouldn't be able to differentiate from a random bozo on the street while he was denied a spot. It's harsh but it's not about how good you were 24 or 12 months ago, it's how good you are this week.

 

[MacStradbroke]

This is the problem with some of the awards now, they're awarded on reputation rather than current output.

Dangerfield not only shouldn't have been AA captain last year, he shouldn't have made the team. But now people look back and say "see he's still awesome fully fit because he was AA captain last year". He's still good, but nowhere near the 2016-2017 player anymore. In home and away he's become far more patchy and finals even worse.

Come on, he had a fantastic 2020. Some guys raise the bar that high it is very hard to live up to.

 

[MacStradbroke]

You can include me in that group. For one massive reason.

We now have not just a few, but far too many players on the wrong side of 30. In the mystical fairyland posters like to inhabit it doesn't matter. But in the real world and especially finals football it does. There's barely a key player on the list who isn't over 30 or already in decline. Again, in fantasyland we can pretend it won't matter, as no one ages. But unfortunately as we saw against Port and brutally against Melbourne, it does.

You can call it pessimism, i call it realism. The minute they started giving away picks for established players, the risk was if no flags came of it we were going to have a hole in the list, less younger guys coming through, which leads to a longer and darker decline. I don't take joy in the club failing, I don't apologise for taking great joy in watching those who hurled abuse at me get proven wrong. And I won't stop reminding them either.

There’s no doubt a lot of our key players are on the wrong side of 30, but not all of them are on their last legs.

 

[My Tilly]

There’s no doubt a lot of our key players are on the wrong side of 30, but not all of them are on their last legs.

Dahlhaus, Selwood, Stanley, Higgins, Tuohy are in decline. Dangerfield is still good for a couple more years but he's showing signs at the moment.

 

[Cattery]

It sucks because he was playing every game as a rookie, he played 18, and then he got hurt from a Zac Smith tackle at training and was never able to break back into our side.

That injury could be one massive what if moment in our history.

He managed eleven games this year, nearly all in the first half of the season, then was virtually forgotten about apparently. Didn't help that he was all over the shop in the games he played, half back, wing, even started one game in the forward pocket.

Back in the younger players. I think it was when Scott first arrived or in one of his earlier years, but he basically said if it's a 50/50 selection call between an older player and a younger one, they'll give preference to the younger one. In the last couple of years they've flipped that philosophy around and prefer to play it safe with an underperforming senior player.

Found this article interesting ....................

Asked post-match about the prospect of the club’s youngsters exploring moves to rivals after a lack of senior opportunities, Scott said: “It’s the price you pay playing at a successful club as a young player.

“There is a different alternative: play a little bit more and finish in the bottom four.

If I'm reading him correctly, he appears to be saying that if we played some of the youngsters more this season we drop from second to bottom four, which to me is total BS.

 

[Partridge]

Come on, he had a fantastic 2020. Some guys raise the bar that high it is very hard to live up to.

We agree to disagree. The only time that applied to Dangerfield was 2016-2017, and he has been dropping steadily ever since.

 

[STPer18]

He managed eleven games this year, nearly all in the first half of the season, then was virtually forgotten about apparently. Didn't help that he was all over the shop in the games he played, half back, wing, even started one game in the forward pocket.



Found this article interesting ....................

Asked post-match about the prospect of the club’s youngsters exploring moves to rivals after a lack of senior opportunities, Scott said: “It’s the price you pay playing at a successful club as a young player.

“There is a different alternative: play a little bit more and finish in the bottom four.

If I'm reading him correctly, he appears to be saying that if we played some of the youngsters more this season we drop from second to bottom four, which to me is total BS.

Melbourne are a stacked side, but with the way our current MC select the team I'd say it's a safe bet Nathan Jones would be picked ahead Tom Sparrow (23 games) and Jack Bowey (7 games). And there's no way you drop to the bottom four with a couple of extra youngsters replacing poor-performing oldies, we won the 2011 premiership with Mooney and Milburn watching on with Christensen and Duncan in the side.

 

[Partridge]

Found this article interesting ....................

Asked post-match about the prospect of the club’s youngsters exploring moves to rivals after a lack of senior opportunities, Scott said: “It’s the price you pay playing at a successful club as a young player.

“There is a different alternative: play a little bit more and finish in the bottom four.

If I'm reading him correctly, he appears to be saying that if we played some of the youngsters more this season we drop from second to bottom four, which to me is total BS.

Total BS is putting it mildly. You can't argue with a straight face that senior selection must be earned when Higgins or Dahlhaus get picked so often, and even worse for last year's Olympian level debacle of giving Jack Steven games. That right there showed the notion of earning your spot is complete crap.

The other part that is garbage is the whole "well they have to earn selection first". Total nonsense. Every single player on every single list was given games before they deserved them. Including Geelong. But now it's verboten apparently.

Love that argument from Scott though. Having Dahlhaus or Higgins for a few less games, and Clark or Narkle for a few more means we plummet down the ladder. Yeah right.

 

[catstragic]

Clarke/Narkle/Simpson/Close/Zuthrie/SDK/Holmes/Rata/Stevens/Parfitt/Constable/Evans/MOC all have the the potential to go up another level. Thats half a best 22.

The ones I would be hoping to see a lift out of are Simpson/Moc/Zuthrie/Rata/Narkle/Parfitt , they are in the age bracket/experience range where you could see a big jump in output

Side note- Did anyone see the GPS data for last year? Rohan unsurprisingly out fastest clocked player, but couldn't believe Bews was in 2nd spot. I always thought he was "smart" fast, not "legit wheels fast".

 

[Sire of Claude]

Partridge is right: nearly all the older players are in decline and some - Kolo and Dal - are declining while still in their twenties! It is ludicrous to expect any team improvement to come from them. Maybe Cam Guthrie will return to his AA form. Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

35

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

will probably hold his form and Hawkins is a chance. The others are either too slow and/or too injury-prone.

The next group consists of players who or may not improve - we won't really know till next season. Can anyone teach Parfitt how to kick? Is it likely Rohan will overturn a decade of history and become an influential finals performer? The jury is still out on Simpson.

In order to start improving we need to see several new or newish faces in the team. It's simple logic. New faces would also motivate the older players, excite and engage the supporters and possibly even attract new members - as would a more dynamic game style.

 

[Baudolino]

We agree to disagree. The only time that applied to Dangerfield was 2016-2017, and he has been dropping steadily ever since.

Revisionist nonsense.

 

[witsend]

You can include me in that group. For one massive reason.

We now have not just a few, but far too many players on the wrong side of 30. In the mystical fairyland posters like to inhabit it doesn't matter. But in the real world and especially finals football it does. There's barely a key player on the list who isn't over 30 or already in decline. Again, in fantasyland we can pretend it won't matter, as no one ages. But unfortunately as we saw against Port and brutally against Melbourne, it does.

You can call it pessimism, i call it realism. The minute they started giving away picks for established players, the risk was if no flags came of it we were going to have a hole in the list, less younger guys coming through, which leads to a longer and darker decline. I don't take joy in the club failing, I don't apologise for taking great joy in watching those who hurled abuse at me get proven wrong. And I won't stop reminding them either.

This is why we are in the Forum. Footy nerds one and all having an opinion! Time will tell


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Partridge]

Revisionist nonsense.

Yeah it was really revisionist when we were saying it at the time. From 2018 onwards.

It's ok though, keep telling yourself he's as good as he was five years ago. It'll make it come true.

 

[Larry Donohue]

Let the Geelong way be just that
Stop referring to defense as the way of this exciting club
Have Stephens and Holmes and Narkle running through lines
Get some wojoesque flare back into our play
Move the ball on once possession attained
Use our defenders and mids through the middle and position our small goalkickers to do just that
If we get Stengle, put him and Miers in position to score. Their greatest strengths to be utilised.
Keep Tuohy in defense to use his kicking efficiency
Play Stephens, SDK, Narkle, Holmes, Stengle, Evans, Close, Miers, Parfitt, Simpson
Don't reward mediocrity any more
If Kolo, Atkins, Rohan, Higgins, Dahlhaus, Menegola, Parfitt, Miers play poorly, they must be dropped.
Go back to 2011 Scott mantra of If it is touch and go between players, pick the young one first.
If Selwood needs resting, it must be done. Give Charlie his possie in those weeks
Please pick Brown. Run off half back essential for our game plan
Scott needs to watch Geelong play from history and put a bit of attacking flare back in to game plan.
Scoreboard pressure is the name of the game, instead of stopping opposition being primary focus
Let opposition be afraid of our attacking game, particularly with 6-6-6 and our stars in attack.
I'd love to have Eddie at their feet

 

[Reppie]

Yep sport is meant to be entertaining...if it's not it's hard too watch.
Slow boring footy is how we play most weeks.
Need to change that.

 

[Sire of Claude]

Go Larry - all spot on.

And furthermore no more Scott bullshit about "our best can beat anyone" or "we want to be playing our best footy at the end of the season." Yeah right.

Maybe Scott and co should spend more time watching other games in order to see how the game is now being played.

 

[Baudolino]

It's ok though, keep telling yourself he's as good as he was five years ago. It'll make it come true.

Yeah that's definitely what I was saying. Good comprehension skills.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

It makes you cringe knowing Clark was sidelined for the whole season because of Scarlett's attitude. He could've given us some real speed back there.

We didn't want real speed. So Scarlett had an easy time leaving him out.