2023 and onwards/depth and draft strength

[King Huskii]

We lack depth and our better players are struggling

We chose to move on our best wing in Acres. Yes some people think he's a spud but if that's the case then how about the rest of the possible replacements?

Henry has been dropped on form, NOD is unfit and Hughes is confused how to play the position properly.

Lobb was kicking regular goals and we have lost him and our other full forward Tabs is always injured.

We didn't get much for them as far as drsft positiongoes.

Logue (who would be playing every game in his natural position this year) plus Tucker.

Jackson cost us two firsts and a second.

We ended up with no first round picks for last year and now this year. Other bottom teams will be collecting top 5 picks while Freo have slim pickings.

What the fk can we do to get out of this poor list management model we've created?

 

[Dockeroo]

All i will say is that it’s possible to get out of this hole with some bargain trades and recruits too. Acres was brought into the club for peanuts.
Is Colyer an option on the wing when he gets back?
We do have pick 20 or 21 plus a late 30s pick this year so some good players should be able to be recruited

 

[Scham]

Our core are good and they're young. Just keep them all together over the next 3 years min and add some talent to fill the holes via draft and trade. Top industry level development will be the key.
We're looking very good for the 2025 season if we can do this.

 

[King Huskii]

We overpayed for Jackson who was always going to us as an uncontracted player. Pick 3 or 4 this year is much needed.

Last draft we picked up Davies Wagner and Emmitt in the draft

Hardly looking any good and we have slim pickings this draft too.

We'll probably have to move on more players to get into the third round yippee

 

[kuhni]

Sorry to be that guy but does this need its own thread? Reads like a combo of the vent, list management and best 22 threads.

 

[greatgatsby]

Sorry to be that guy but does this need its own thread? Reads like a combo of the vent, list management and best 22 threads.

This seems efficient. Isn't it the only thread we'll need in a few weeks?

 

[King Huskii]

Sorry to be that guy but does this need its own thread? Reads like a combo of the vent, list management and best 22 threads.

Maybe that's the issue

Our best 22 and list management after a rebuild is poor otherwise we wouldn't be playing like a bottom 3 side considering we've had an easy fixture this far.

 

[Sweetback]

I still feel like we’re only one or two brave or timely decisions away from putting it all together this season. Form comes back. Over the last couple of weeks our goal kicking has improved. If we can win contested ball better and move it better from out of half back then it goes a long way to playing more competitively

 

[Docker82]

I’m comfortable enough with where our depth sits. It’s not perfect but depth players are reasonably easy to find compared to best 22 players.

We’ve got one A Grader atm (Serong), maybe two at best (Darcy). Walters may play like an A Grader every second week - that’s about it.

Good teams have 8-10 A Graders and a bunch of very solid B Graders. Most of the team selected this week and a handful of guys either in the emergency list or injured are capable of being B Grade at the very least and have shown they can do that at AFL level.

I’d be much more worried about developing our best 22 and getting underperforming players back to their best before we start worrying about depth too much.

Poor team selection where we fail to select a second KPF over Bailey Banfield

41

Bailey Banfield

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.3

3star

D

9.5

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.8

4star

G

0.5

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.2

3star

doesn’t exactly help the appearance in terms of depth but that’s pure stupidity not a depth issue. Corbett is AFL quality but for some bizarre reason isn’t getting a look at it and so is Taberner when properly fit.

 

[Dockeroo]

I’m comfortable enough with where our depth sits. It’s not perfect but depth players are reasonably easy to find compared to best 22 players.

We’ve got one A Grader atm (Serong), maybe two at best (Darcy). Walters may play like an A Grader every second week - that’s about it.

Good teams have 8-10 A Graders and a bunch of very solid B Graders. Most of the team selected this week and a handful of guys either in the emergency list or injured are capable of being B Grade at the very least and have shown they can do that at AFL level.

I’d be much more worried about developing our best 22 and getting underperforming players back to their best before we start worrying about depth too much.

Poor team selection where we fail to select a second KPF over Bailey Banfield doesn’t exactly help the appearance in terms of depth but that’s pure stupidity not a depth issue. Corbett is AFL quality but for some bizarre reason isn’t getting a look at it and so is Taberner when properly fit.

I know he’s been out of form and injured a bit, but come on, Andy Brayshaw is as A grade as they get.
AFLPA player of the year!!
Once’s he’s fit and well, he will be A grade very quickly again

 

[Docker82]

I know he’s been out of form and injured a bit, but come on, Andy Brayshaw is as A grade as they get.
AFLPA player of the year!!
Once’s he’s fit and well, he will be A grade very quickly again

At the moment he’s not an A Grader. He is when he’s 100% fit but he isn’t atm.

 

[Scham]

Fill the gaps for 2025.

Current listed candidates we've got; Davies, Sturt, Benning, Draper, Banfield, Hughes, Knobel, Brodie, Worner, Williams, Henry, Treacy, Emmett, Corbett, Reidy,...



B. Chapman Pearce Walker
HB. Clark Cox Young
C. NOD Serong Johnson
HF. ???? Jackson ????
F. Switta Amiss Fredrick

R. Darcy Brayshaw Erasmus

Int. Schultz ???? ???? ????


We've also got 3 trade and draft periods between now and then to find extra talent.

 

[Vintage]

I’m comfortable enough with where our depth sits. It’s not perfect but depth players are reasonably easy to find compared to best 22 players.

We’ve got one A Grader atm (Serong), maybe two at best (Darcy). Walters may play like an A Grader every second week - that’s about it.

Good teams have 8-10 A Graders and a bunch of very solid B Graders. Most of the team selected this week and a handful of guys either in the emergency list or injured are capable of being B Grade at the very least and have shown they can do that at AFL level.

I’d be much more worried about developing our best 22 and getting underperforming players back to their best before we start worrying about depth too much.

Poor team selection where we fail to select a second KPF over Bailey Banfield doesn’t exactly help the appearance in terms of depth but that’s pure stupidity not a depth issue. Corbett is AFL quality but for some bizarre reason isn’t getting a look at it and so is Taberner when properly fit.

I think its worth looking at who is (or should / will be) A grade rather than just those playing at that level today.

Following are A grade imo
Cox
Young
Ryan
(Clark close, Chapman in future maybe)

Darcy
Andy
Serong
(Jackson should be in time)

Walters
Switta
(hopefully Amiss and Freddy)

not sure if that’s enough, and a few of them are maybes and depend on staying injury free (Chapman, Freddie, switta esp). Walters won’t be A grade in 2024/5 when the core of team is and we don’t have a replacement for him - that’s one of the biggest gaps imo.

 

[Vintage]

Fill the gaps for 2025. None have put their hand up just yet imo, but as current listed candidates we've got; Davies, Benning, Draper, Walker, Banfield, Hughes, Knobel, Worner, Williams, Henry, Treacy, Emmett, Corbett, Reidy,...



B. Young ???? ????
HB. Clark Cox Chapman
C. NOD Serong ?????
HF. ???? Jackson Sturt
F. Switta Amiss Fredrick

R. Darcy Brayshaw Johnson

Int. Schultz Erasmus ???? ????

We've also got 3 trade and draft periods between now and then to find extra talent.

I think you can put Pearce and walker in - captain is out of form at the moment but he should still be a good player in 2025.
I have both as more likely in 2025 than Sturt.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think Ross has proved depth is as much about coaching as it is the talent. I dont think I'll ever be concerned about depth anymore because footy is a team game and the best coaches can turn spuds into roleplayers and roleplayers into top 10 players on the list. You can also fix depth with a bunch of 3rd round and rookie picks.

I guarantee if Carlton had a top coach, their depth and bottom 6 players each week wouldnt be as big an issue

 

[Scham]

I think you can put Pearce and walker in - captain is out of form at the moment but he should still be a good player in 2025.
I have both as more likely in 2025 than Sturt.

I agree that Sturt is probably line ball, I'll take him out and perhaps (not imo) is Pearce. Even NOD and Raz should be line ball too. I tell you what I'll do, I'll add Pearce to the candidates and if he proves himself in one of the roles we can add him. Walker has shown signs but in no way has locked in a spot imo.

 

[Docker82]

I think its worth looking at who is (or should / will be) A grade rather than just those playing at that level today.

Following are A grade imo
Cox
Young
Ryan
(Clark close, Chapman in future maybe)

Darcy
Andy
Serong
(Jackson should be in time)

Walters
Switta
(hopefully Amiss and Freddy)

not sure if that’s enough, and a few of them are maybes and depend on staying injury free (Chapman, Freddie, switta esp). Walters won’t be A grade in 2024/5 when the core of team is and we don’t have a replacement for him - that’s one of the biggest gaps imo.

Whilst I agree with all of this a large portion of these performing below expectations is the main reason we're in the position we are this year.

That's not a depth issue

 

[Docker82]

Fill the gaps for 2025. None have put their hand up just yet imo, but as current listed candidates we've got; Pearce, Davies, Benning, Draper, Walker, Banfield, Hughes, Knobel, Worner, Williams, Henry, Treacy, Emmett, Corbett, Reidy,...



B. Young ???? ????
HB. Clark Cox Chapman
C. NOD Serong ?????
HF. ???? Jackson Sturt
F. Switta Amiss Fredrick

R. Darcy Brayshaw Johnson

Int. Schultz Erasmus ???? ????

We've also got 3 trade and draft periods between now and then to find extra talent.

Pearce and Ryan will come good again imo especially if we get a new coach.

Frederick and Switta are HFFs not a forward pockets. We need a genuine forward pocket. Sturt can probably play in the other pocket.

Brodie and Aish will still be with us in 2025. Still decent players. Maybe Aish can go back if Walker doesn't come on or Ryan doesn't get his act back together.

I've got question marks on Walker but I'll back him to take one of those bench spots.

Team needs a forward pocket, winger and another mobile KPF. There's a few guys that might make it but are more unlikely than those above. For the wing maybe Chapman moves there and Draper comes in.

We need the KPF and genuine small forward on our list and developing ASAP. We'll need to continue to work on our list to cover the odd retirement and a few gaps we already have.

 

[theGav56]

There is a bit of a trap to just look at list management and the players. In the end I think we are lacking vision about where we are going in football terms, and how we will achieve it.

After the club posting a target of x number of permierships before year xxxx, we lost several best 22 players and traded in a major player who is justified on potential rather than production or structure.

It is difficult to believe all of that was part of a master plan.

 

[Dockeroo]

There is a bit of a trap to just look at list management and the players. In the end I think we are lacking vision about where we are going in football terms, and how we will achieve it.

After the club posting a target of x number of permierships before year xxxx, we lost several best 22 players and traded in a major player who is justified on potential rather than production or structure.

It is difficult to believe all of that was part of a master plan.

I think those strategic plans are kinda pointless. There wouldn’t be a club in the league that doesn’t think they can win a flag in 5 years. Even west coast and north would talk up their chances.
5 years ago brisbane were dog s**t and Carlton were the same.

To me it’s all about coaching and development

 

[theGav56]

I think those strategic plans are kinda pointless. There wouldn’t be a club in the league that doesn’t think they can win a flag in 5 years. Even west coast and north would talk up their chances.
5 years ago brisbane were dog s**t and Carlton were the same.

To me it’s all about coaching and development

'We can win a flag in 5 year's' isn't a strategic plan, it's closer to a marketing jingle.

A strategic plan would identify issues and opportunities which are critical to winning that flag, and putting a strategy in place to address those issues and achieve those objectives.

It might highlight quite specific things such as the need for a strong group of experienced assistants, or the need to develop 3rd party agreements for players to supplement earnings, which the AFL will accept. It may look at strategies such as luring the Gather Round to WA, or other means of strengthening our home ground advantage. It may look at engineering a strong go home factor for WA players and look at how we could become the club of choice. It may regulate the peramaters within which trades (such as the Jackson trade) may operate.

Years ago I was approached by WC to potentially make their crowd more actively involved during games (I declined). That was apparently a result of them understanding that the crowd was worth 2 goals a game. All part of strategic planning.

 

[nurries]

'We can win a flag in 5 year's' isn't a strategic plan, it's closer to a marketing jingle.

A strategic plan would identify issues and opportunities which are critical to winning that flag, and putting a strategy in place to address those issues and achieve those objectives.

It might highlight quite specific things such as the need for a strong group of experienced assistants, or the need to develop 3rd party agreements for players to supplement earnings, which the AFL will accept. It may look at strategies such as luring the Gather Round to WA, or other means of strengthening our home ground advantage. It may look at engineering a strong go home factor for WA players and look at how we could become the club of choice. It may regulate the peramaters within which trades (such as the Jackson trade) may operate.

Years ago I was approached by WC to potentially make their crowd more actively involved during games (I declined). That was apparently a result of them understanding that the crowd was worth 2 goals a game. All part of strategic planning.

So the Egos approached the umpires instead?

I like some of your thoughts. Some of those things may be in place but we aren’t aware. Certainly, better strategies are required

 

[Dockeroo]

'We can win a flag in 5 year's' isn't a strategic plan, it's closer to a marketing jingle.

A strategic plan would identify issues and opportunities which are critical to winning that flag, and putting a strategy in place to address those issues and achieve those objectives.

It might highlight quite specific things such as the need for a strong group of experienced assistants, or the need to develop 3rd party agreements for players to supplement earnings, which the AFL will accept. It may look at strategies such as luring the Gather Round to WA, or other means of strengthening our home ground advantage. It may look at engineering a strong go home factor for WA players and look at how we could become the club of choice. It may regulate the peramaters within which trades (such as the Jackson trade) may operate.

Years ago I was approached by WC to potentially make their crowd more actively involved during games (I declined). That was apparently a result of them understanding that the crowd was worth 2 goals a game. All part of strategic planning.

Something kinda related to your final point that I think is understated is having a couple of players that exuberantly celebrate goals.
It’s something I’ve noticed Richmond in particular tap into. The have the massive MCG fan base, and just watch Jack Riewoldt or dusty running around enthusiastically high fiving everyone after kicking even a routine Joe the goose goal. Winding up the crowd even more for their players to feed off their energy.
Their game style suits it too. Nothing more demoralising for an opposition Than looking at talismatic players like Riewoldt and dusty wildly celebrating a goal from a run and gun style break from defence after you have spent the previous few min trying to kick a goal from what seems like 10 years hard labour (as the purple reign lads say).

 

[Ausbenito]

I think Ross has proved depth is as much about coaching as it is the talent. I dont think I'll ever be concerned about depth anymore because footy is a team game and the best coaches can turn spuds into roleplayers and roleplayers into top 10 players on the list. You can also fix depth with a bunch of 3rd round and rookie picks.

I guarantee if Carlton had a top coach, their depth and bottom 6 players each week wouldnt be as big an issue

Well said if this season has proved anything at all it is this.
Has opened my eyes right up some interesting opinions here on our playing list cant believe how under rated Lachie Shultz is he a top line small forward hits them as well along with Switta and Fredericks we have that area of the ground covered it is a strength of ours.

 

[Scham]

Fill the gaps for 2025.

Current listed candidates we've got; Davies, Sturt, Benning, Draper, Banfield, Hughes, Knobel, Brodie, Worner, Williams, Henry, Treacy, Emmett, Corbett, Reidy,...



B. Chapman Pearce Walker
HB. Clark Cox Young
C. NOD Serong Johnson
HF. ???? Jackson ????
F. Switta Amiss Fredrick

R. Darcy Brayshaw Erasmus

Int. Schultz ???? ???? ????

We've also got 3 trade and draft periods between now and then to find extra talent.

Pearce, Walker and Erasmus added.