Analysis 2023 Bloods' Performance Discussion

[Nuggetz]

David King with the most stunning of whacks our way. Not sure I've ever been so amped hearing us get torn to shreds by a media personality before but IMO it was completely deserved. (Starts at about the 5:30 mark.)

Replying in here because it's a snapshot of our last month.

In the last month sydney are 18th for contested possession in general play between the arcs. WOW.

Kingy is spot on. Midfield is erratic with all of them bar rowbottom putting up consistent numbers. It's either hit or miss. It's been too much of the latter.

If you can't win the contested footy consistently then you'll get poor performances consistently.

 

[caesar88]

Replying in here because it's a snapshot of our last month.

In the last month sydney are 18th for contested possession in general play between the arcs. WOW.

Kingy is spot on. Midfield is erratic with all of them bar rowbottom putting up consistent numbers. It's either hit or miss. It's been too much of the latter.

If you can't win the contested footy consistently then you'll get poor performances consistently.

Many fans seem to be celebrating the small victories - "we were better in centre clearances today"; "we evened up contested possessions today"; "we had more disposals than them in that quarter!" - but to me those aren't small victories. It's accepting mediocrity. Not being belted in the midfield doesn't cut it.

Premierships aren't won on midfields that break even at best. They're won on midfields that when required can beat their opposition midfield into submission and get a game fully on their terms. Until we're there, we're nowhere.

 

[MR0808]

Replying in here because it's a snapshot of our last month.

In the last month sydney are 18th for contested possession in general play between the arcs. WOW.

Kingy is spot on. Midfield is erratic with all of them bar rowbottom putting up consistent numbers. It's either hit or miss. It's been too much of the latter.

If you can't win the contested footy consistently then you'll get poor performances consistently.

Not only is it inconsistent, they are inconsistent inconsistently, ie. When one is off another is on, so we never have tune all on at the same time

 

[GoTheSwannies]

I had a look at a few of our centre bounces and a few bounces around the ground against Collingwood and a couple of things stood out. Pies mids would push off our mids as the ruckman was ready to tap. Giving themselves space to run off our mids. Happened a few times and resulted in Collingwood winning the ball and streaming forward.

There were also times where our mids would allow the pies to get goal side without blocking their run, so when pies won the clearance they were able to link with hand balls and get the ball moving forward.

I didn't watch all bounces in detail and I'm sure our mids have their own ways of winning the ball but I just felt like those two are pretty fundamental, so to see experienced mids allowing their opponents to create space so easily and win the ball is pretty poor and goes some way to explaining why we haven't been able to dominate the middle.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Never did I think we’d be debating whether or not we’re a chance against Norf.

Says it all really.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Never did I think we’d be debating whether or not we’re a chance against Norf.

Says it all really.

I have as much confidence in a win as the coaching staff showed in JPK in 2022.

Nuff said.

 

[WillHayward]

I think the two hidings from Geelong have taken their toll on confidence levels.

Why 100% bust a gut when deep down you know you cant win the flag?

I'm sure its not front of mind and subconscious but its there and cant be dismissed.

 

[MR0808]

I think the two hidings from Geelong have taken their toll on confidence levels.

Why 100% bust a gut when deep down you know you cant win the flag?

I'm sure its not front of mind and subconscious but its there and cant be dismissed.

David King put us in the same category as West Coast Eagles and North in terms of lack of effort

 

[Nuggetz]

At least we kicked straight, that's an improvement from the past few weeks

 

[Nuggetz]

Imo our mids need to start getting the ball to our better users on the outside, the likes of Gulden/Campbell/Mcinnerney should be receivers of the ball. Even if they go backwards initially to get the ball to our halfbacks who can then set up play, it would be an improvement of what we've seen this year.

Our mids just try to do it themselves via handballs to each other or hack kick forwards which leads to easy turnovers. Get the ball to the outside, do your *ing role. Let the outside players with elite kicks do their *ing role by receiving the ball & setting up our play.

Even when we get clean breaks via handballs through our mids, I still don't trust the likes of rowbottom, parker, warner to hit a target inside 50.

We need their gamestyle & tactics to change in the middle.

I also think with the spate of injuries it's the ideal time to experiment with roles, game plan. Hence I want to see the hickey/ladhams ruck combo. I don't think either are consistent enough to play as sole rucks.

 

[caesar88]

Our midfield will get nowhere with Parker in it

 

[SGBeach]

Our midfield will get nowhere with Parker in it

terrible comment!

 

[caesar88]

terrible comment!

Where's the midfield if not nowhere?

 

[caesar88]

Just wanted to post this here, as in the draft & trade thread I talked about the chemistry between our mids. This is an example of how much growth there still is to be had amongst our midfield group as it involves our three youngest mids.

You see Darcy tap it down to Serong (yawn) but Rowbottom sticks the tackle and the turnover is on. But look at where the two wingmen Gulden & Warner end up. Both have been drawn backwards, obviously assuming the clearance was lost, time to defend and help out.

View attachment IMG_5150.MOV

But Rowbottom wins the ball back and the clearance is on for us. He correctly identifies Parker is the loose Swan, but then there's no one for Parker to give it to. Every possible runner (Warner) or better user (Gulden) is behind Parker now, because they were sucked in to pushing back. So Parker has no choice but to hack it in, it's a shallow entry, and it's repelled easily.

View attachment IMG_5149.MOV

We talk a lot about our inside mids not getting it to our outside players, but both our inside mids do their job here: Parker as the goal side mid holds his position so he's free, and Rowbottom wins the ball under pressure and gets it out to Parker. It's the lack of outside representation that renders this rare centre clearance for us ineffective. The disconnect does go both ways.

Gulden & Warner as the wingmen need to trust that Rowbottom wins that ball back and be goal side so that Parker can simply dish it out to one of them and we're off to the races. There's already a supporting mid there behind the play in Heeney if we need an extra number, and if Rowbottom doesn't stick the tackle and Serong gets the easy clearance, well two wingmen in Gulden & Warner running back isn't going to make a blip of difference to that kick going inside our defensive 50. So there is nothing to gain from them pushing back behind the play. They needed to be in front of the play so that we could actually use their attributes going forward, rather than needing to hack kick it from the centre circle.

For the record I'm not criticising them. They're not the only culprits and I'm also aware they're still young and learning on the fly. It was just a really clear example of a group of players who haven't yet understood each other's roles and don't have that trust in each other to perform those roles. Ed Langdon

15

Ed Langdon

Age

28

Ht

182cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.0

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.3

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

20.3

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

7.5

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

0.8

1star

CL

1.8

4star

D

13.0

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

doesn't get sucked in to being a number if that happens to Oliver or Petracca. He holds his position and trusts it will come back out to him.

 

[Nuggetz]

It was just a really clear example of a group of players who haven't yet understood each other's roles and don't have that trust in each other to perform those roles. Ed Langdon doesn't get sucked in to being a number if that happens to Oliver or Petracca. He holds his position and trusts it will come back out to him.

tbh I don't blame warner nor gulden for going defensive side if our mids don't get first touch on the ball. They've been inconsistent winning the ball this year, so the default option is for our wingmen to go defensive when they see our mids haven't had first touch. If the mids show consistency in either winning the ball, creating another stoppage or an immediate turnover at the contest then we'll see our wingers hold more neutral positions or even attacking positions.

I think the trust from our wingers to our mids has been eroded this year. Hopefully we see the mids improve which'll hopefully mean our wingers hold more attacking positions near the contest.

 

[caesar88]

tbh I don't blame warner nor gulden for going defensive side if our mids don't get first touch on the ball. They've been inconsistent winning the ball this year, so the default option is for our wingmen to go defensive when they see our mids haven't had first touch. If the mids show consistency in either winning the ball, creating another stoppage or an immediate turnover at the contest then we'll see our wingers hold more neutral positions or even attacking positions.

I think the trust from our wingers to our mids has been eroded this year. Hopefully we see the mids improve which'll hopefully mean our wingers hold more attacking positions near the contest.

No doubt, it's a two-way street, and I've said for weeks now that we need to be so much better at getting first touch in stoppages (I'd argue Saturday's circumstances were somewhat of an exception though.) But not every centre bounce is going to go your way, and you're not always going to get first touch. As a wingman you've still gotta have that trust that your inside mids will take care of it. There's no point the inside mids doing their job if they don't have the players there to distribute it to.

That's what we need to practice - trusting teammates to do their role, even if they're not always successful. It's the only way we'll ever get the kind of clearance work we're looking for.

 

[Nuggetz]

No doubt, it's a two-way street, and I've said for weeks now that we need to be so much better at getting first touch in stoppages (I'd argue Saturday's circumstances were somewhat of an exception though.) But not every centre bounce is going to go your way, and you're not always going to get first touch. As a wingman you've still gotta have that trust that your inside mids will take care of it. There's no point the inside mids doing their job if they don't have the players there to distribute it to.

That's what we need to practice - trusting teammates to do their role, even if they're not always successful. It's the only way we'll ever get the kind of clearance work we're looking for.

100% it's soo difficult to do when you've got injuries, out of form players etc. Hope we see the tide turn sooner rather than later!

 

[wills2g]

No doubt, it's a two-way street, and I've said for weeks now that we need to be so much better at getting first touch in stoppages (I'd argue Saturday's circumstances were somewhat of an exception though.) But not every centre bounce is going to go your way, and you're not always going to get first touch. As a wingman you've still gotta have that trust that your inside mids will take care of it. There's no point the inside mids doing their job if they don't have the players there to distribute it to.

That's what we need to practice - trusting teammates to do their role, even if they're not always successful. It's the only way we'll ever get the kind of clearance work we're looking for.

Thats the issue with beltings imo there is a lack of trust in the team that needs time to rebuilt

If youre going into the game thinking another part of the ground is going to lose then youre already on the backfoot bfeore the bounce

 

[Kapers]

Thinking about our club, I think our biggest issue is that we don't ask any questions of the opponents.

Our pressure is nowhere near where it was last year, so opposition teams don't have to worry about pressure.

We get sucked into contests and therefore the opposition teams don't have to worry about finding open players.

We don't win contested ball so the opposition doesn't have to worry about the contest.

We don't have a contested markers on either side of the ground, so the opposition doesn't have to worry about high balls.

Our crumbing has been diabolical, so the opposition doesn't have to worry about the small forwards.

Our leadership is shot, so the opposition doesn't have to worry about a comeback (they don't have to worry about us closing the game out either).

We can't win 1 on 1s anywhere on the ground, so as long as they someone to the ball we get neutralised.

Honestly, the only thing teams have to worry about is one off brilliant moments from our players. A Papley vs Richmond, or a Gulden or Rowbottom dominating a quarter.
We're more toothless than a, well, a swan.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

My concern about our performances this season is that our 5 wins have all come against the bottom 7 sides so we're yet to beat a team above us.

After the bye we have games against St kilda, Brisbane, West Coast and Geelong.

St Kilda in round 13 will be a big test for us. Given we're 5-6 heading into the bye, a win against St Kilda is critical for our chances of making finals.

I'd hate to be 5-7 with games against Brisbane & Geelong. Lose against the saints and we could realistcally find ourselves 6-9.

And the draw really doesn't get any easier from there. Bar one or two games, we basically play sides who are a realistic chance of making the 8.

The positive is that the opportunity is there if we're able to take it, and we can continue to win our way up the ladder by leap frogging fellow top 8 aspirants.

If we continue to build it's going to be an intriguing season, if we regress it's going to be a painful experience.

I'm hopeful we can turn this season around. But it absolutely has to start with a win against the Saints. Win that match and we're likely to be 7-8 (at worst) and can use that position to finish the season strongly and win our way through to finals.

 

[The King!]

Would need to win at least 2 of saints lions cats (plus beat the eagles as expected) imo to get the season and finals back on track

Suspect we won't be good enough to play finals

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

My concern about our performances this season is that our 5 wins have all come against the bottom 7 sides so we're yet to beat a team above us.

After the bye we have games against St kilda, Brisbane, West Coast and Geelong.

St Kilda in round 13 will be a big test for us. Given we're 5-6 heading into the bye, a win against St Kilda is critical for our chances of making finals.

I'd hate to be 5-7 with games against Brisbane & Geelong. Lose against the saints and we could realistcally find ourselves 6-9.

And the draw really doesn't get any easier from there. Bar one or two games, we basically play sides who are a realistic chance of making the 8.

The positive is that the opportunity is there if we're able to take it, and we can continue to win our way up the ladder by leap frogging fellow top 8 aspirants.

If we continue to build it's going to be an intriguing season, if we regress it's going to be a painful experience.

I'm hopeful we can turn this season around. But it absolutely has to start with a win against the Saints. Win that match and we're likely to be 7-8 (at worst) and can use that position to finish the season strongly and win our way through to finals.

It was a brutal draw with not much room for error, i actually think the ladder reflects our position well percentage of just over 100% we will beat most teams around the 8-14 mark.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Truly exceptional level of performance will be required to go further than a elimination final prospect.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

It was a brutal draw with not much room for error, i actually think the ladder reflects our position well percentage of just over 100% we will beat most teams around the 8-14 mark.

I had a similar thought. Before Essendon's win today. Adelaide and Essendon (two teams we're yet to play) were sitting above us in 10th & 11th, and Geelong and Freo (two teams who have beaten us) were sitting in 7th & 8th. So I felt our games against Adelaide & Essendon will give us a good indication whether we're pushing for a top 8 spot or if we sit somewhere between 9-12th on the ladder.

St Kilda is another team I'd put alongside Adelaide/ Essendon. I think their ladder position is slightly inflated.

Beat those sides and we belong, lose 2 out of the 3 and it's unlikely we make finals, and realistically wouldn't be deserving of a top 8 spot unless it's the token 8th spot with a first round thrashing awaiting us.

We'd also want to take a couple top 8/4 scalps if we fancy ourselves as contenders.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

It was a brutal draw with not much room for error, i actually think the ladder reflects our position well percentage of just over 100% we will beat most teams around the 8-14 mark.

We need to go no worse than 7-5 from here to play finals.

It is distinctly possible (I see only the Brisbane away game as being in the “screw all chance” category) - but much will depend on injuries.