List Mgmt. 2024 Father Son watch MKIII. Operation Ashcroft jnr. Featuring various academy boys.

[Jivlain]

 

[Lace Out]

I was disgusted when we didn't draft Cripps, Oliver, Dane Swan, Brent harvey tbh, some of us have receipts going back much longer than 2016. If we'd drafted who I wanted we'd have had every all australian player of the last 20 years

You’d also have to talk their managers into them taking 250k

 

[Tom14]

You’d also have to talk their managers into them taking 250k

Good thing that I'm also the greatest hindsight list manager of all time. I wouldn't have traded for Beams and I would have recontracted all our gun players for unders too in that period of time.

 

[SizeMatters]

Look all I said was that I’d love an LDU type. It’s what we are missing besides proper key forwards.

 

[Lace Out]

Look all I said was that I’d love an LDU type. It’s what we are missing besides proper key forwards.

Hard to get every type of player.No team has it..we do have a decent mix

 

[Gadzorks]

If the draft was today, I would happily take Cam all over again.
He has been an important part of our re-build and journey back to the top 4.
I still think that Cam is closer to a Premiership than the other 2.

We needed to become a stable inclusive 'destination' environment

Cam's consistent backing of the club in the media when he joined was a massive boost for us.

I think the change in position is going to let him shine.

 

[Elixuh]

Look all I said was that I’d love an LDU type. It’s what we are missing besides proper key forwards.

Did he have those attributes from 2020-2022? I think we have good complement of mids now with other guys who can roll through there. As others have said you can't get everything into a squad. Given we had huge holes in our list I think we have done amazingly well through trades, FA and drafting to get to where we are.

 

[Nunez]

Not according to Twomey at the time.

Not that I think we'd have taken him regardless, but know he was seen as a flight risk.

 

[lionraven]

My eyes hurt.

You must understand, young Hobbit, it takes a long time to say anything in Old Entish. And we never say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

My eyes hurt.

 

[Sphynx]

I doubt he'd have stayed in Brisbane tbh. Was very against leaving Melbourne.

For good reason.

His old man was diagnosed with terminal cancer in his draft year.

He passed away about 18 months ago.

 

[irel]

Meh. I remember the hype around Stephenson and how we were stupid to pick Cam over him. Then it was Cerra. Brayshaw finally got some recognition. Now its LDUs time in the sun. Im happy with Cam. At this point if I had to pick again I would pick Brayshaw first because he is a known quantity that has been achieving at a high level for a couple of years and has polled significant Brownlow votes. Though there is an argument that we already have a Brayshaw type in Will Ashcroft. They are both similar in-and-under types who can also play slightly outside. LDU plays like an explosive Petracca type but we shall see if he can keep this up or if its just temporary form. We have been trying to force Cam to become this for us. Now that we have Dunkley as that bigger body and Berry as second fiddle there is less need for Cam to be that square peg being pushed into a round hole. We have a Cerra type already in Bags (who is much better than Cerra). Cam's never going to be that aerobic talent that will let him get to that large number of contests which seperates the good from the great midfielders. Instead we should play to his strengths of being that X-factor that can play taller than he is. He has fantastic aerial capabilities and is agile on the ground. He can apply so much pressure. I always liked that Jordan De-Goey type comparison with Cam. Cam has that X-factor to burst out of stoppage and break a game apart with a couple of goals. He can play as a third tall (and really cause a mismatch if he rotates between mid and forward whilst we have 3 tall forwards already on the field). However, I think his differentiating factor is his field kicking. He has great vision and can hit piercing targets. I think his move into defense will be his making. He has that Tom Stewart/James Sicily type ability as a medium defender where he can truly monster a small forward like a Kosy Pickett whilst still contest aerially against a proper tall forward. He has enough bulk/presence to stand in leading lanes and intercept. If the ball hits the ground he can pressure and win the ball back. He has that explosion to burst out of stoppage and the vision to get the ball up to our forward's advantage. When we have a F50 stoppage, he can patrol the arc and score goals. I have loved Starc in the backline but I think Cam has the ability to ecclipse Starc and become All-Australian. I'd love to see him back there for the whole season and have him build synergy with the tall backs in defense and Rich/Coleman when driving off half back.

There must be some good paragraphs in there but who knows, so hard to read.

 

[Jubair]

Not comparing players at all, just comparing situations and needs with what I'm about to say:
Back in 01, Hawthorne drafted Hodge because he was the player they needed based on his qualities etc and what they wanted at the time. They could have also drafted Ball or Judd and still become a superstar team down the track but due to various reasons they didn't go with them.

Back in 2017, I'm sure we drafted Rayner based on his qualities and what we needed at the time. I'm sure we seriously considered the others that went in the top 10 and wanted the LDUs and Brayshaws.

You can't always have every really good player in your team. You draft based on a mix of need and availability and what role this player can potentially play down the track.

 

[buttermuffs]

Except in The Kids doco Levi specifically says that Will should go to the Lions so they can play together, so it's pretty certain (that he would nominate). Will himself also said he is excited for it, and they both love playing together.

Yeah it’s not really anything to look at. Will is basically trying to say the Levi is his own person and not some extension of him and will make his own decisions. What Levi chooses will be what he wants and not a choice made for him.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[briztoon]

On a different tangent, here’s a really good post from the West Coast board, about the possible impacts a new team might have on the draft and when.

If ever there was a reason to properly invest in the operation and running of our academy, this is it.

Bolded the section at the bottom of the post that is key to the discussion, if you don’t want to read the reasoning and history lesson to start with.

The business case for the Tas19 license references 2027 as the preferred inaugural season.

However, AFL HQ have said they will be doing nothing unless the federal government chips in $240M for a new boutique stadium in Hobart.

Considering the Tasmanian state government is wavering between being unable to decide where to put a new venue and not wanting one at all, this will no doubt be a process that could take some time and see some more political horse-trading yet.


Once that happens however, things will start to move very rapidly.

With government taking on the cost-associated risk, AFL HQ will grant the license and Tas19 will join the competition in 2027, playing at Bellerive and York Park until 2029 when the new stadium is complete for matches in Hobart. Home games are expected to be split 8/4 between Hobart and Launceston.


AFL HQ received the support of the [then] 16 clubs for an expansion team based in Western Sydney in March 2008. The next two years saw the redevelopment of the venues and off-field organisation and appointments (and the signing of I.Folau... )

The license for GWS was officially granted in November 2010. They joined the competition two years later in 2012. In 2010 the new franchise was granted access to twelve 17 year-olds of their choosing from across the country that would play for the club in NEAFL in 2011, before going to AFL in 2012.

• This list of 12 included Jeremy Cameron, D.Shiel and A.Treloar (and S.Tunbridge )

During 2011 they were able to exercise free agency on an off-contract player from each of the other clubs (Gold Coast excepted).

• This yielded T.Scully, C.Ward and P.Davis among others like R.Palmer.

Then they could select two additional players from the 2012 draft crop in a "mini-draft" that were to be used as trade capital with other clubs. This in addition to receiving 9 of the first 15 picks. After trading out "mini-picks" J.O'Meara and B.Crouch, GWS ended up with 11 of the first 14 picks in the 2011 draft.

• Which included J.Patton, T.Greene, S.Coniglio, W.Hoskin-Elliot, T.Adams, N.Haynes and D.Smith.

Similarly, in 2012 there was another "mini-draft" that provided trades in exchange for J.Martin and J.Hogan. This resulted in GWS having the first 3 picks in the national draft and two more inside the top 15.

• Which were completely wasted apart from L.Whitfield.

No exceptional draft allowances that are additional to the rest of the competition have been provided to GWS after 2012.

However over the first five years of their existence (until 2016), GWS also benefitted from expanded list sizes and a larger salary cap ($1M extra during their first 3 seasons).


So taking that on-board, expect to see a Tas19 aligned representative in the VFL by 2025 and AFL by 2027; with the cream of the 2026 draft crop (likely 12-15 players) to be picked out early to help found the club.

Any player off-contract during 2026 (and possibly 2027) will be a potential free agent for Tas19.

2027 and 2028 are likely to see a return of the "mini-drafts" as well - and it can be expected that once again those "mini-picks" will be traded for more picks in the national draft, rather than for players. That's two players from each of the 2028 and 2029 draft crops that are compromised in addition to the bloodbath that will occur in 2027 and 2028 from the additional national draft picks Tas19 will be allocated.

Impact-wise, drafts between 2026 and 2029 are going to be annihilated. After 2025, the next uncompromised national draft is likely to be 2030.

During that period, "free agency" draft pick compensation may well be the best way for existing clubs to maintain a strong draft presence, as no doubt Tas19 will be given a honeymoon period of extra salary cap to lure mature players - in effect overpaying them to bring them on board, which should skew the "magic hidden formula" behind pick compensation towards higher bands.


Three drafts left then to secure a rebuild before the house waters down all the drinks.

Tick-tock tick-tock.

 

[briztoon]

Levi on the weekend.

 

[briztoon]

The other two highly regarded U17 Vic kids are Jagga Smith and Finn O’Sullivan (U16 mvp last year).

 

[Nickimus Rex]

Yeah it’s not really anything to look at. Will is basically trying to say the Levi is his own person and not some extension of him and will make his own decisions. What Levi chooses will be what he wants and not a choice made for him.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Yeah i don't disagree. I only brought up the doco, because in it Levi is playing footy in the backyard with Will, while talking about whether or not Will should play for the Lions. Levi tells Will specifically he should, so that they can play together, which is a pretty definite thing for someone to say in this specific instance (unless he changes his mind i guess).

 

[JasRulz63]

Levi on the weekend.
View attachment 1643301

Could Levi Ashcroft follow a similar trajectory at AFL level to Zorko? On the shorter side (acknowledging Levi could still get taller), potentially more effective splitting time between the midfield and half forward given the ability to hit the scoreboard, and both are willing tacklers that will hunt the man and are tough.

Not sure how quick and agile Levi is though, which is a key part of Zorko's play style.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Will said today that Levi is his own man and won’t necessarily go father and son

100 percent will come to Brisbane. Profoundly confident.

 

[Viceregal]

Meh. I remember the hype around Stephenson and how we were stupid to pick Cam over him. Then it was Cerra. Brayshaw finally got some recognition. Now its LDUs time in the sun. Im happy with Cam. At this point if I had to pick again I would pick Brayshaw first because he is a known quantity that has been achieving at a high level for a couple of years and has polled significant Brownlow votes. Though there is an argument that we already have a Brayshaw type in Will Ashcroft. They are both similar in-and-under types who can also play slightly outside. LDU plays like an explosive Petracca type but we shall see if he can keep this up or if its just temporary form. We have been trying to force Cam to become this for us. Now that we have Dunkley as that bigger body and Berry as second fiddle there is less need for Cam to be that square peg being pushed into a round hole. We have a Cerra type already in Bags (who is much better than Cerra). Cam's never going to be that aerobic talent that will let him get to that large number of contests which seperates the good from the great midfielders. Instead we should play to his strengths of being that X-factor that can play taller than he is. He has fantastic aerial capabilities and is agile on the ground. He can apply so much pressure. I always liked that Jordan De-Goey type comparison with Cam. Cam has that X-factor to burst out of stoppage and break a game apart with a couple of goals. He can play as a third tall (and really cause a mismatch if he rotates between mid and forward whilst we have 3 tall forwards already on the field). However, I think his differentiating factor is his field kicking. He has great vision and can hit piercing targets. I think his move into defense will be his making. He has that Tom Stewart/James Sicily type ability as a medium defender where he can truly monster a small forward like a Kosy Pickett whilst still contest aerially against a proper tall forward. He has enough bulk/presence to stand in leading lanes and intercept. If the ball hits the ground he can pressure and win the ball back. He has that explosion to burst out of stoppage and the vision to get the ball up to our forward's advantage. When we have a F50 stoppage, he can patrol the arc and score goals. I have loved Starc in the backline but I think Cam has the ability to ecclipse Starc and become All-Australian. I'd love to see him back there for the whole season and have him build synergy with the tall backs in defense and Rich/Coleman when driving off half back.

Since there have been so many oh so helpful comments about how hard this is to read ... feel free to read the formated version below (hopefully I put them where their creator would have!)

Meh. I remember the hype around Stephenson and how we were stupid to pick Cam over him. Then it was Cerra. Brayshaw finally got some recognition. Now its LDUs time in the sun.

Im happy with Cam. At this point if I had to pick again I would pick Brayshaw first because he is a known quantity that has been achieving at a high level for a couple of years and has polled significant Brownlow votes. Though there is an argument that we already have a Brayshaw type in Will Ashcroft. They are both similar in-and-under types who can also play slightly outside. LDU plays like an explosive Petracca type but we shall see if he can keep this up or if its just temporary form.

We have been trying to force Cam to become this for us.

Now that we have Dunkley as that bigger body and Berry as second fiddle there is less need for Cam to be that square peg being pushed into a round hole. We have a Cerra type already in Bags (who is much better than Cerra). Cam's never going to be that aerobic talent that will let him get to that large number of contests which seperates the good from the great midfielders. Instead we should play to his strengths of being that X-factor that can play taller than he is. He has fantastic aerial capabilities and is agile on the ground. He can apply so much pressure.

I always liked that Jordan De-Goey type comparison with Cam. Cam has that X-factor to burst out of stoppage and break a game apart with a couple of goals. He can play as a third tall (and really cause a mismatch if he rotates between mid and forward whilst we have 3 tall forwards already on the field).

However, I think his differentiating factor is his field kicking. He has great vision and can hit piercing targets. I think his move into defense will be his making. He has that Tom Stewart/James Sicily type ability as a medium defender where he can truly monster a small forward like a Kosy Pickett whilst still contest aerially against a proper tall forward. He has enough bulk/presence to stand in leading lanes and intercept. If the ball hits the ground he can pressure and win the ball back. He has that explosion to burst out of stoppage and the vision to get the ball up to our forward's advantage. When we have a F50 stoppage, he can patrol the arc and score goals.

I have loved Starc in the backline but I think Cam has the ability to ecclipse Starc and become All-Australian. I'd love to see him back there for the whole season and have him build synergy with the tall backs in defense and Rich/Coleman when driving off half back.

 

[LongLion]

Since there have been so many oh so helpful comments about how hard this is to read ... feel free to read the formated version below (hopefully I put them where their creator would have!)

Meh. I remember the hype around Stephenson and how we were stupid to pick Cam over him. Then it was Cerra. Brayshaw finally got some recognition. Now its LDUs time in the sun.

Im happy with Cam. At this point if I had to pick again I would pick Brayshaw first because he is a known quantity that has been achieving at a high level for a couple of years and has polled significant Brownlow votes. Though there is an argument that we already have a Brayshaw type in Will Ashcroft. They are both similar in-and-under types who can also play slightly outside. LDU plays like an explosive Petracca type but we shall see if he can keep this up or if its just temporary form.

We have been trying to force Cam to become this for us.

Now that we have Dunkley as that bigger body and Berry as second fiddle there is less need for Cam to be that square peg being pushed into a round hole. We have a Cerra type already in Bags (who is much better than Cerra). Cam's never going to be that aerobic talent that will let him get to that large number of contests which seperates the good from the great midfielders. Instead we should play to his strengths of being that X-factor that can play taller than he is. He has fantastic aerial capabilities and is agile on the ground. He can apply so much pressure.

I always liked that Jordan De-Goey type comparison with Cam. Cam has that X-factor to burst out of stoppage and break a game apart with a couple of goals. He can play as a third tall (and really cause a mismatch if he rotates between mid and forward whilst we have 3 tall forwards already on the field).

However, I think his differentiating factor is his field kicking. He has great vision and can hit piercing targets. I think his move into defense will be his making. He has that Tom Stewart/James Sicily type ability as a medium defender where he can truly monster a small forward like a Kosy Pickett whilst still contest aerially against a proper tall forward. He has enough bulk/presence to stand in leading lanes and intercept. If the ball hits the ground he can pressure and win the ball back. He has that explosion to burst out of stoppage and the vision to get the ball up to our forward's advantage. When we have a F50 stoppage, he can patrol the arc and score goals.

I have loved Starc in the backline but I think Cam has the ability to ecclipse Starc and become All-Australian. I'd love to see him back there for the whole season and have him build synergy with the tall backs in defense and Rich/Coleman when driving off half back.

Ta

 

[briztoon]

That has been my thinking. Similar playing style to Zorko, and that would be his career trajectory.

Could Levi Ashcroft follow a similar trajectory at AFL level to Zorko? On the shorter side (acknowledging Levi could still get taller), potentially more effective splitting time between the midfield and half forward given the ability to hit the scoreboard, and both are willing tacklers that will hunt the man and are tough.

Not sure how quick and agile Levi is though, which is a key part of Zorko's play style.

PMBangers wasn’t there and I left early due to feeling a bit crook. Archie Roberts and Levi Ashcroft did really well in the yo-yo that’s just about the only notable thing that I saw in the morning.

Young stars impress at Coates Talent League Boys Testing Day…
Young stars impress at Coates Talent League Boys Testing Day

 

[The Flying Belgian]

That has been my thinking. Similar playing style to Zorko, and that would be his career trajectory.

Probably won't be overlooked in 4 drafts though...

 

[McIvor]

the guys on the afl website program Getteable discuss re-doing 2017 draft -

GETTABLE: Why Dons must keep this star, is another gun headed to the Lions?

Cal Twomey and Riley Beveridge discuss Collingwood's list build, the standouts from R1 of the Coates League, and an in-demand Bomber

www.afl.com.au

Twomey had Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

24

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

at 5, Naughton 4, LDU, 2 and Brayshaw 1 - missed the oher player
Beveridge had Bailey 5, Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

24

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

4, Brayshaw 3, LDU 4 and Naughton 1

No Rayner in top 5 - all subjective anyway

We nailed getting Bailey wherever we got him so best to look at the positives

Some Levi Ashcroft footage to in the video

 

[p4p1]

Not comparing players at all, just comparing situations and needs with what I'm about to say:
Back in 01, Hawthorne drafted Hodge because he was the player they needed based on his qualities etc and what they wanted at the time. They could have also drafted Ball or Judd and still become a superstar team down the track but due to various reasons they didn't go with them.

Back in 2017, I'm sure we drafted Rayner based on his qualities and what we needed at the time. I'm sure we seriously considered the others that went in the top 10 and wanted the LDUs and Brayshaws.

You can't always have every really good player in your team. You draft based on a mix of need and availability and what role this player can potentially play down the track.

IIRC a few teams were wary of Judd because of his shoulders.

We get it right more often that we get it wrong IMO and that's without taking into consideration who the club believes will leave ASAP. Nat Fyfe was a second round draft pick, Lachie Neale was a third round. It's an educated guess IMO, some kids mature earlier than others, some have finished growing at 17/18 others not until they're 21/22.

I'm sure we drafted Cam because we wanted a midfield bull, he has shown he can be in glimpses but it's doubtful he will get to the Brayshaw's level as a mid. Maybe if we had our time again we would go with Brayshaw. I like Cam and think he will be very valuable going forward once he has found his sweet spot in the team but it's not crazy to say if we had our time again knowing what we know now, the coaching staff would pick someone ahead of him.