List Mgmt. 2023 Draft Thread - Part I

[Winmar2Lockett]

I’m not accepting of anything someone has done to hurt others.

But you have to admit at the same age you probably did your own s**t your not proud of either.

I know I am.


Who’s to say this doesnt change him for the better?

IF the rumours are true and he was pulled up on it numerous times but kept at it, then it’s a massive red flag.

No excuse these days.

And yes, I am embarrassed by the way I treated people in the past. In the late 80’s & early 90’s there wasn’t the anti-bullying & mental health programs.

This sort of stuff is a greater concern to me than kids having a drug strike TBH.

Cruelty is a psychological flaw that’s not easily left behind.


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[saintmike65]

Wilson strikes me as a good pick around the range, gives us more of that raw speed Ross is looking for. Disappointed we didn't bid on McCabe, it's frustrating that Sydney is carrying the competition in trying to make teams pay up with bids. Collard's a punt but the 3 year contract does help.

Hoping for Murphy, Roberts or Simpson with our next pick, in that order

Collard 2 year contract

 

[FrogDude]

Collard 2 year contract

3 year contract for first rounders under the new CBA

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Even better if they debut 2024!!

The word from a mate in Wangaratta is to mark Darcy down for a round 1 debut.

One of the best talents to ever come out of a rich footballing area is what the locals have been saying for months.


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[Yawkey way]

Yeah we should always overlook the more talented kid for the one who lives Bayside.

[emoji849]


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Depends how you rate them, clearly Wilson was in the same bracket with Edwards and others. Collard just looks a dumb choice Imo and yeah building a team that wants to stay together matters. Anyway it’s just my opinion take it with a grain of salt, i‘ll be cheering for them to succeed the same as everyone else.

 

[saintmike65]

He looks good ball in hand.

But one on one he looks average at best. Slow in the contest.
Ball keeps going over his head and he has no impact.





I feel like there are some huge red flags when kids go from top 10… top 15 and now we are talking in the 30s on draft night in the space of a month.

Yep…shades of Hugh Goddard!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Shai was alot more consistent. He was kicking bags regularly and doing some amazing things.

Collard is very inconsistent.

It probably says more about this draft compared to the Bolton and long one.

Bags regularly?

Shai Bolton | WAFL

wafl.com.au

Lance Collard | WAFL

wafl.com.au

From their last ten games before drafting....
zero goals. Bolton 2, Collard 2.
1 goal . Bolton 1, Collard 0
2 goals . Bolton 1, Collard 2.
3 goals . Bolton 2, Collard 1.
4 goals. Bolton 3, Collard 1.
5 goals. Bolton 0, Collard 3.
6 goals. Bolton 0, Collard 1.
7 goals. Bolton 1 , Collard 0.

Total Bolton 28, Collard 32.

Collard more likely to kick more than 4 goals.

 

[saintmike65]

3 year contract for first rounders under the new CBA

Only the first 20 players get 3 years

 

[Silkie]

The AFL is increasingly becoming a uneven playing field. The competition is geared around the revenue derived from blockbusters at the MCG, which to my mind, means that the AFL is dependent on MCG-based teams doing well. The idea that the MCG is a neutral ground is absolute rubbish. For teams like Collingwood, who play 14 games at the MCG in 2024, it is their contemporary version of Victoria Park.

To your points about the the random nature of the draft picks given to North and GCS you are correct. It smacks of inconsistency and unfairness to the other teams that have done it hard in recent seasons. Unlike other codes around the world, where rules tend to be uniform, the goal posts are always shifting in AFL. Returning to my point, North and GCS can have all the priority picks they like, but it is not going to help them in finals if they are not exposed to playing on the MCG. In round 24 of the 2024 season GCS will be playing their first game in more than two and a half seasons at the MCG. Last year they could have won every game in the home and away rounds and the finals, and their only game at the MCG would have been the Grand Final. North are scheduled to play only one game at the MCG in 2024, the Saints, Bulldogs, and North play 5 games between them at the MCG next season. How many grand finals have been won by Marvel-based teams since it opened? In the same period how many grand finals have been won by MCG teams.

Interstate teams complain about the competition being Melbourne-biased. They are wrong. The competition is biased towards teams that are based or partially based at the MCG. In the current system they tend to get the elite players from other clubs, particularly from the GWS and GCS finishing schools. Their success gives them increased membership and revenue. I want to be proven wrong, but the last 12 years indicate a trend that I think will continue into the future.

Someone posted something like this a little while ago:

It's a three tier comp -

1. MCG tenants
2. Interstate clubs
.
.
.
3. Marvel tenants

In tier 3 you need a god squad to contend, and even then there are no guarantees. Or you can sneak a flag like 2016. Sustained success or god forbid a dynasty feels genuinely unachievable. But hey, give us just one flag and we'll all die happy. This is our hand.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

While we want more alpha dogs in the club, we don’t want s**t people.

Pass.


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yeah while Pou is an alpha dog confident bloke he also seems like a nice kid

 

[goodie23]

Collard 2 year contract

Nope - Three-year contracts for players taken in the first round of the men’s draft.

Landmark joint Collective Bargaining Agreement reached

The long-term five-year deal provides certainty for the industry from 2023-2027

www.afl.com.au

 

[StCicatriz]

3 year contract for first rounders under the new CBA

First 20 picks

 

[Silkie]

IF the rumours are true and he was pulled up on it numerous times but kept at it, then it’s a massive red flag.

No excuse these days.

And yes, I am embarrassed by the way I treated people in the past. In the late 80’s & early 90’s there wasn’t the anti-bullying & mental health programs.

This sort of stuff is a greater concern to me than kids having a drug strike TBH.

Cruelty is a psychological flaw that’s not easily left behind.


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Agree.

Teenagers are cruel and school can be a living nightmare if you stick out for some reason or another.

That being said, if there's truth to this stuff it sounds like it's a few levels above your garden variety bullying (which is already unacceptable).

FIGJAM =/= genuinely shit bloke

 

[FrogDude]

First 20 picks

Link above from the AFL says first rounders.

 

[StFly]

Everyone who isn't norf or gold coast should be angry

Gold Coast can still be angry, they legit got used to the AFL could make GWS and were the northern stepchild everyone shoved in an attic with a half eaten mattress and everyone wishing them well but doing SFA.

Is a reason why they be emulating us and winning nada, born from failures of governance.

 

[Yawkey way]

You are better than this Yawkey. Fair enough thats your opinion on Wilson, but do you really think, the recruiters went for Collard because of Bobby Hill? that makes you sound like a Facebook nuffie which you are not.

I do believe recruiters and coaches are influenced by trends and recent events. Collard tested off the charts in the areas you’d want in a small forward and yes he looks exciting despite a quiet championship. I don’t see the need at present and small forwards aren’t that hard to find. I know we wanted pace and run amongst other things and clearly both these kids fit the bill. My problem is that I was really hoping we’d load up with mids, mids and more mids including some who can win the ball not just run and carry.

I’m also a big advocate for trying to build a team with as many local kids as possible, not to the exclusion of better options just if it’s a close thing retention and culture matter as well. I see some of our local boys back at the local footy, it energises the local clubs and schools and the suburbs believe it or not. I think it’s good for us on and off the field and with hawthorn stalking us on our home patch we need every advantage we can get.

If it’s any consolation I wasn’t a wrap for wang apart from his kicking and would have taken Sinn and that’s looking laughable about now so I’m hoping this turns out the same way.

 

[Joffaboy]

I’m not accepting of anything someone has done to hurt others.

But you have to admit at the same age you probably did your own s**t your not proud of either.

I know I am.


Who’s to say this doesnt change him for the better?

Yes, it might have been a s.hite action but he was an immature kid. In this day an age everyone seems to get punished for their actions of the past.
Remember Ollie Robinson missing tests for some dickhead tweets he made 8 years previous when he was an 18.y.o?

We need so mongrel in the team. I dont want him as a son in law, but as a footballer if he helps us win a flag, I dont care

 

[The Boar]

Agree.

Teenagers are cruel and school can be a living nightmare if you stick out for some reason or another.

That being said, if there's truth to this stuff it sounds like it's a few levels above your garden variety bullying (which is already unacceptable).

FIGJAM =/= genuinely s**t bloke

I don't think anyone here will know the full story.

However we are never in a position to ignore talent.

We can't on one hand say "Let's back our culture" and then deny picking up talent and educating these young kids to be better and learn.

Back in the team to find the talent.
Back in the club to drive a culture.
Everyone of these kids have a lot to learn, can't write them off.

 

[Miha]

I don't think anyone here will know the full story.

However we are never in a position to ignore talent.

We can't on one hand say "Let's back our culture" and then deny picking up talent and educating these young kids to be better and learn.

Back in the team to find the talent.
Back in the club to drive a culture.
Everyone of these kids have a lot to learn, can't write them off.

Who are we talking about here?

 

[SaintersUnite]

Couldn’t care less what Arie did in high school, if he helps us win a premiership in the future then get him.


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[Joffaboy]

I do believe recruiters and coaches are influenced by trends and recent events. Collard tested off the charts in the areas you’d want in a small forward and yes he looks exciting despite a quiet championship. I don’t see the need at present and small forwards aren’t that hard to find. I know we wanted pace and run amongst other things and clearly both these kids fit the bill. My problem is that I was really hoping we’d load up with mids, mids and more mids including some who can win the ball not just run and carry.

I’m also a big advocate for trying to build a team with as many local kids as possible, not to the exclusion of better options just if it’s a close thing retention and culture matter as well. I see some of our local boys back at the local footy, it energises the local clubs and schools and the suburbs believe it or not. I think it’s good for us on and off the field and with hawthorn stalking us on our home patch we need every advantage we can get.

If it’s any consolation I wasn’t a wrap for wang apart from his kicking and would have taken Sinn and that’s looking laughable about now so I’m hoping this turns out the same way.

Really good reply Yawkey.

The highlighted part I agree with you. But taken in context we trade for Dow, Henry who is a wing/mid and the best possible mid left at our pick, so to me Collard is a risky but possible high reward selection.

Also consider our young developing mids, Pou, Chito, Windy, Ronnie, and Hotton whom we haven't seen, but I have high hopes for from what I have seen at training. As you get to training I would be interested in what you think of Hotton.
So we have
Dow
Henry
Owens
Windy
Ronnie
Hotton
Wilson and hopefully another tonight as our young mids.

We have Sincs and Steele as AA and still a couple of years like from Crouch, and lets hope Clark can make it and Seb has got another year.


I am hoping for a Stevens type tonight. Think we will take two picks so hopefully one will be a mid.

 

[Nomis2933]

Really good reply Yawkey.

The highlighted part I agree with you. But taken in context we trade for Dow, Henry who is a wing/mid and the best possible mid left at our pick, so to me Collard is a risky but possible high reward selection.

Also consider our young developing mids, Pou, Chito, Windy, Ronnie, and Hotton whom we haven't seen, but I have high hopes for from what I have seen at training. As you get to training I would be interested in what you think of Hotton.
So we have
Dow
Henry
Owens
Windy
Ronnie
Hotton
Wilson and hopefully another tonight as our young mids.

We have Sincs and Steele as AA and still a couple of years like from Crouch, and lets hope Clark can make it and Seb has got another year.


I am hoping for a Stevens type tonight. Think we will take two picks so hopefully one will be a mid.

My thoughts exactly. If you draft too much of one position too soon, you end up with mids playing the flanks and end up losing them at trade time. North are going to get raided quick smart there. One (perhaps two) quality mids per draft - its a list build, not an acorn collecting contest.

 

[Silkie]

I don't think anyone here will know the full story.

However we are never in a position to ignore talent.

We can't on one hand say "Let's back our culture" and then deny picking up talent and educating these young kids to be better and learn.

Back in the team to find the talent.
Back in the club to drive a culture.
Everyone of these kids have a lot to learn, can't write them off.

That's fair enough but sometimes existing issues might be a bridge too far to solve and more trouble than it's worth.

Every 18 year old I've ever known has been a dickhead but if a kid has some serious psychological red flags then I believe sorting it out isn't in the wheelhouse of a footy club's culture, or at least if it is it has the potential to damage it on the way.

If a kid bounces around our system for a few years and brings a few others around him down that is a net negative, even if the kid grows up by the end of it. This could be anyone you pick up on draft night, but if the signs are already there and you do it anyway and then it goes wrong it's pretty dumb.

WITH ALL OF THAT SAID, no one knows exactly what Arie did or didn't do so it's purely speculation. This comment should be taken in a general sense more than being about Arie specifically.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Yes, it might have been a s.hite action but he was an immature kid. In this day an age everyone seems to get punished for their actions of the past.
Remember Ollie Robinson missing tests for some dickhead tweets he made 8 years previous when he was an 18.y.o?

We need so mongrel in the team. I dont want him as a son in law, but as a footballer if he helps us win a flag, I dont care

I know you’re playing devils advocate Joff but mongrel isn’t getting stuck into disabled kids relentlessly. That’s cowardice.

Robinson showed he was a flog then & he hasn’t changed much in 8 years.


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[saintmike65]

Nope - Three-year contracts for players taken in the first round of the men’s draft.

Landmark joint Collective Bargaining Agreement reached

The long-term five-year deal provides certainty for the industry from 2023-2027

www.afl.com.au

Thanks for that, they said on AFL website draft coverage the 3 year contract applied to first 20 players drafted