List Mgmt. 2023 Draft Thread - Part I

[SaintsofSteel]

It’s a pass on Hardeman. Couldn’t even finish his highlight package. It was every disposal, so warts and all.

Agree for a left footer his kicking was below average IMO.

 

[stfan]

Funny enough, for a club that has drafted about 35 HBFs over the last 15 years we still only have Sinclair and Nas that are above average at it.

Zero strike rate then for HBFs as Nas was a wingman and Sinclair a mid/small forward when drafted.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s a pass on Hardeman. Couldn’t even finish his highlight package. It was every disposal, so warts and all.

I prefer others with our first 2 picks but I wouldn't be upset to get him on our list. He's an endurance runner and fast and his best trait is his two way game. Pretty rare for a kid to be so ready to tackle and pressure, especially if they play outside mid/ attacking HB. He was playing as a double under ager in the colts. He should be able to step up reasonably quickly. I reckon he could be a Dmac type but potentially with a higher accumulation.

 

[gringo2011]

Zero strike rate then for HBFs as Nas was a wingman and Sinclair a mid/small forward when drafted.

The elite ones are pretty hard to find. The best ones in footy are game changers. Richmond was never able to replace Bashar Houli and pretty much dropped off without his pin-point passing and run. JJ for the Dogs was insane in their premiership year and then once he fell away the Dogs have struggled to transition as quickly.

 

[BrutThough]

I prefer others with our first 2 picks but I wouldn't be upset to get him on our list. He's an endurance runner and fast and his best trait is his two way game. Pretty rare for a kid to be so ready to tackle and pressure, especially if they play outside mid/ attacking HB. He was playing as a double under ager in the colts. He should be able to step up reasonably quickly. I reckon he could be a Dmac type but potentially with a higher accumulation.

Maybe if we had a late pick, but there should be better available with what we have.

Don't think he would be mentioned as someone we should look at at if he didn't speak about us (in a bizarre way) in an interview.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree for a left footer his kicking was below average IMO.

They suggested that him and his whole side were particularly bad by foot that day. Not sure it's a strength but haven't read that his kicking is an issue anywhere. I think they said he has a "penetrating left foot".

Maybe if we had a late pick, but there should be better available with what we have.

Don't think he would be mentioned as someone we should look at at if he didn't speak about us (in a bizarre way) in an interview.

He's definitely in the range for our first 2 picks. I think Twomey has him at 17.

 

[BrutThough]

He's definitely in the range for our first 2 picks. I think Twomey has him at 17.

It's a very weak draft if someone is that scrappy at WAFL colts level yet still considered a potential first round pick.

 

[gringo2011]

It's a very weak draft if someone is that scrappy at WAFL colts level yet still considered a potential first round pick.

I'm not sure you can call it from one video. Those "every touch" videos are a lot better guide than a curated package of highlights. You have to kind of imagine what they'll develop into with those though. Hardeman's two-way game should see him be at least a solid player. He's got a work ethic that usually has to be taught later. It should see him have at least a Geary type game. A defensive outside mid/wing is pretty hard to find. His run and pace are excellent too. He seems good with his ground ball pick ups too.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I'm not sure you can call it from one video. Those "every touch" videos are a lot better guide than a curated package of highlights. You have to kind of imagine what they'll develop into with those though. Hardeman's two-way game should see him be at least a solid player. He's got a work ethic that usually has to be taught later. It should see him have at least a Geary type game. A defensive outside mid/wing is pretty hard to find. His run and pace are excellent too. He seems good with his ground ball pick ups too.

He did make the All Australian side, but having watched all the championship games the only thing that stood out to me was marking for a player his size. His kicking was no better in those games, he projects like as Miles Bergman type. Regardless of opinion he is a HBF playing in a position of least need in our list build. If we are to take a HBF I would have Archie Roberts or even Billy Wilson (later) with speed, line breaking run and rebound out of defence as perferred options. They both are also a bit more versatile in where they can play, but lets not get hung up on a player just because he is a Saints supporter!

 

[BrutThough]

I'm not sure you can call it from one video. Those "every touch" videos are a lot better guide than a curated package of highlights. You have to kind of imagine what they'll develop into with those though. Hardeman's two-way game should see him be at least a solid player. He's got a work ethic that usually has to be taught later. It should see him have at least a Geary type game. A defensive outside mid/wing is pretty hard to find. His run and pace are excellent too. He seems good with his ground ball pick ups too.

His disposal was shaky during the champs as well.

What you have describe is fine but that's the type you would be wanting with a late 2nd or 3rd round pick, not a first rounder.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They’re probably hoping McLennan and McConnell will be developed for that role

Coffield can probably play that role....oh wait.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Zero strike rate then for HBFs as Nas was a wingman and Sinclair a mid/small forward when drafted.

Nas will make a great wingman, i don't know why we brought another one in.

Small/slightly built midfielders tend to need to at least start as a forward at AFL level.
Sinclair got his physique good enough to play anywhere.
Jack Lonie played like a mid, but he was never physical enough to play as one at that level.

 

[gringo2011]

He did make the All Australian side, but having watched all the championship games the only thing that stood out to me was marking for a player his size. His kicking was no better in those games, he projects like as Miles Bergman type. Regardless of opinion he is a HBF playing in a position of least need in our list build. If we are to take a HBF I would have Archie Roberts or even Billy Wilson (later) with speed, line breaking run and rebound out of defence as perferred options. They both are also a bit more versatile in where they can play, but lets not get hung up on a player just because he is a Saints supporter!

I'm certainly not hung up on him at all. He wouldn't be the player that I'd choose with our first 2 picks but he's rated around pick 17 for a reason.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I prefer others with our first 2 picks but I wouldn't be upset to get him on our list. He's an endurance runner and fast and his best trait is his two way game. Pretty rare for a kid to be so ready to tackle and pressure, especially if they play outside mid/ attacking HB. He was playing as a double under ager in the colts. He should be able to step up reasonably quickly. I reckon he could be a Dmac type but potentially with a higher accumulation.

I can see why you were a fan of Luke

You love ball butchers

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I'm certainly not hung up on him at all. He wouldn't be the player that I'd choose with our first 2 picks but he's rated around pick 17 for a reason.

Its an opinion based discussion - I dont rate him as highly as Twomey simple. I wouldnt have have in the top 35 players I just dont think he has AFL traits. I very much doubt that a Vic Club will take him in the first round, if he is taken in the 1st Im hoping it wont be us.

 

[stfan]

Nas will make a great wingman,

Yes he could

i don't know why we brought another one in.

1/ Well I think it will be as that Nas looked a standout out at HB, and one part of his game that emerged this season was his intercept marking which is vital in the back half, but which on the wing is not that important. Personally I really love the ability of both Nas and Sincs to read the play, intercept and defend, as well as both having such offensive games. It is a real strength, and arguably in 2024 with the two of them we will have the best HB line in the AFL.

I am strongly in the camp of keep Sincs at HB with runs through the midfield, and not at all in the camp to try and play him as a fulltime mid.

2/ And that both Henry and Hill will rotate through HF as well as wing, which is one reason we did not require Gresham in 2024.

Small/slightly built midfielders tend to need to at least start as a forward at AFL level.
Sinclair got his physique good enough to play anywhere.
Jack Lonie played like a mid, but he was never physical enough to play as one at that level.

I don't disagree with that at all, however you wrote that in response to my post. And the point of my post was that despite the vast number of HBFers that we have drafted in recent times that our preferred two best HBFers are Nas and Sinclair who were not recruited as HBFers.

 

[gringo2011]

I can see why you were a fan of Luke

You love ball butchers

I haven't even seen much of him but reports on him certainly don't suggest that his kicking is a major issue. That is one game and could have been an off day. I don't even want him. I prefer others anyway but he would not be an outrageous reach at any of our picks. People are making him out to be a spud. He's certainly not that.

Same with the footage of Shoenmaker. He's a guy rated for his long precise kicking but if you watch that game he looks poor by foot. If you go off those games with every possession even guys like Harley Reid and McKercher would have a handful of shit plays.

 

[ScrappyDo]

The more videos l watch the more I'm lining up behing Edwards.
1. Wilson / Edwards 50/50
2. Edwards / Gothard
3. Gothard

Wilson isn't flashy but we do need a running accumulator type as well. It'd be a tough choice.

I'm still hoping Sanders makes it to Geelongs's pick and we can trade up.

 

[gringo2011]

The more videos l watch the more I'm lining up behing Edwards.
1. Wilson / Edwards 50/50
2. Edwards / Gothard
3. Gothard

Wilson isn't flashy but we do need a running accumulator type as well. It'd be a tough choice.

I'm still hoping Sanders makes it to Geelongs's pick and we can trade up.

I reckon Wilson looks pretty flashy. His game is probably a bit too flashy if anything. I really like him and Edwards. Watch the second half of the highlights package and he gets into the sidestepping and blind handballs. His gait reminds me of Lenny Hayes.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With the picks we've got its pretty likely that at least one of the following will be true.
1: He's too slow.
2: His kicking is bad.
3: He can't get enough of the ball.
4: He's a midget for his role.
5: He sells drugs to primary school kids and doesn't make his bed.

Sometimes you can find special circumstances where it might be different.
Bytel for example had missed heaps of footy , but.... turned out to be 3 with a bit of 1.

To me 3: is the killer.
McKenzie was a 3, and he sat on the list for years, improving just enough to keep us wanting him, but he still doesn't get enough of it.
CJ was a good 2, Dunstan turned out to be a bad 2, probably had too much 1.
I can put up with 1 and 2, but 3 can be a killer, nothing more frustrating than a speedy guy who can kick beautifully but can't get it.
4 and 5 are kind of obvious, but can be good deals sometimes. ( Caleb Daniel

5

Caleb Daniel

Age

29

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

).

 

[BrutThough]

The more videos l watch the more I'm lining up behing Edwards.
1. Wilson / Edwards 50/50
2. Edwards / Gothard
3. Gothard

Wilson isn't flashy but we do need a running accumulator type as well. It'd be a tough choice.

I'm still hoping Sanders makes it to Geelongs's pick and we can trade up.

The early rumours have Sanders going at the Dogs pick 4 unfortunately. Dogs traded up wanting Nick Watson but apparently Hawks are very keen on him at 3.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I reckon Wilson looks pretty flashy. His game is probably a bit too flashy if anything. I really like him and Edwards. Watch the second half of the highlights package and he gets into the sidestepping and blind handballs. His gait reminds me of Lenny Hayes.

Yeah he looks good.
Can't see him lasting to our pick but it looks like there'll be enough talant that we'll get a couple of good players in.

 

[gringo2011]

With the picks we've got its pretty likely that at least one of the following will be true.
1: He's too slow.
2: His kicking is bad.
3: He can't get enough of the ball.
4: He's a midget for his role.
5: He sells drugs to primary school kids and doesn't make his bed.

Sometimes you can find special circumstances where it might be different.
Bytel for example had missed heaps of footy , but.... turned out to be 3 with a bit of 1.

To me 3: is the killer.
McKenzie was a 3, and he sat on the list for years, improving just enough to keep us wanting him, but he still doesn't get enough of it.
CJ was a good 2, Dunstan turned out to be a bad 2, probably had too much 1.
I can put up with 1 and 2, but 3 can be a killer, nothing more frustrating than a speedy guy who can kick beautifully but can't get it.
4 and 5 are kind of obvious, but can be good deals sometimes. ( Caleb Daniel ).

Bytel probably suffered most by being a one position inside mid. If you are adaptable you can some times make a career out of being a multipurpose type. Not many inside only mids make it unless they are absolutely exceptional extractors or line breakers now.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah he looks good.
Can't see him lasting to our pick but it looks like there'll be enough talant that we'll get a couple of good players in.

Wilson and Windsor seem to be rated a bit differently by different people. It looks like one might be there at our pick. It seems we prefer Windsor if rumours are true.

 

[gringo2011]

The early rumours have Sanders going at the Dogs pick 4 unfortunately. Dogs traded up wanting Nick Watson but apparently Hawks are very keen on him at 3.

I've never seen anyone have him that high. The rumours are that the Dogs want Nick Watson which makes more sense, he looks alike an elite small forward. If McKercher somehow fell to their pick I can imagine that they'd have a look though. Sanders would be a weird choice for them too.