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List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

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Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant
 
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Surely Brodie is the trade.

  • has trade value
  • has lost the coach's support
  • difficult to include at the expense or in addition to any of Fyfe, O'Meara, MJ, Erasmus or Young.
  • has no second position
  • plays limited tog
 
Surely Brodie is the trade.

  • has trade value
  • has lost the coach's support
  • difficult to include at the expense or in addition to any of Fyfe, O'Meara, MJ, Erasmus or Young.
  • has no second position
  • plays limited tog
I think we should be open to it if someone asks and Brodie is happy with it
 
Hamling:
Excellent on the list for development of our two young kpd's. Good depth in case of injury if the younguns aren't ready. One year only.

Darcy:
Darcy has RFA looming. Until we clear that I'd retain both of the younger rucks as insurance. Open to sell-the-farm offers for Darcy only.
 

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Surely Brodie is the trade.

  • has trade value
  • has lost the coach's support
  • difficult to include at the expense or in addition to any of Fyfe, O'Meara, MJ, Erasmus or Young.
  • has no second position
  • plays limited tog
Of the contracted players, it's either Brodie or Tabs.

Brodie I think they'd hold out for adequate trade value, coz he's still useable depth, and I imagine the salary per year isn't crazy coz even at the start of the season he came into the team as the 4th midfielder who didn't even finish top 10 in the Doig despite polling double digit Brownlow votes. Also, at the moment MJ and Erasmus aren't really backed in the centre bounce attendances (hopefully an off season of steaks and weights changes that).

Unless Tabs finishes off this season at Peel looking like Tyler Keitel vs the Eagles WAFL team, I think they'd take a packet of crisps for him. He signed his deal in early 2021 coming off the back of a top 5 coleman finish + AA squad selection. He must be on mad salary considering he's injury prone and our 5th choice tall forward.
 
Oh right, some actual discussion on historical results and things that are actually different is worth skipping over but we can all rehash Henry leaving and <insert same trade scenario here> 15 times.

You know what, **** you guys, I'm going to reddit, they'll appreciate my insight
 
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Surely Brodie is the trade.

  • has trade value
  • has lost the coach's support
  • difficult to include at the expense or in addition to any of Fyfe, O'Meara, MJ, Erasmus or Young.
  • has no second position
  • plays limited tog
Don't know. I think if he can recapture his form from last year, he is that mid bull we need. Maybe preseason work on his tank and two way running more. He knows now that he is not b22 if he doesn't work hard. Last year he was a given
 
Surely Brodie is the trade.

  • has trade value
  • has lost the coach's support
  • difficult to include at the expense or in addition to any of Fyfe, O'Meara, MJ, Erasmus or Young.
  • has no second position
  • plays limited tog
Not sure on trade value though, 4 year contract and not playing AFL right now. 3rd rounder, at best.
 

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Don't know. I think if he can recapture his form from last year, he is that mid bull we need. Maybe preseason work on his tank and two way running more. He knows now that he is not b22 if he doesn't work hard. Last year he was a given
Without disputing your comments, and given his only known position is 70% midfield, how would you structure our midfield set up?

I think we badly need someone like Young in there, and Worner plus the return of Chapman can facilitate that.

I also think the value in Johnson and Erasmus lies in the midfield. There may be roles in other parts of the ground but that's short term stuff, or useful as a second position.

I'm not against Brodie on the list, but his limitations are clearly a concern for the coach.
 
Dockeroo is un-board banned because his decade (going back to 2013) remains accurate going off this (Retirements, delistings, trades - AFL.com.au). Adelaide appear to have only made 4 changes in 2012 though I think that might have an asterisk next to it because Kurt Tippet wasnt really on their list (but was really) and so it was weird. Further investigations are required

It’s pretty hard to track but going off this reference in 2012 Adelaide had 1 retirement and 6 delistings including Tippett. They delisted then re-drafted Nic Joyce.
2012 AFL Retirements and Delistings - Draftguru

I’m neither here nor there as to how many we delist. I don’t think delisting 8 or 4 is any sort of predictor of a premiership. It’s just very unlikely less than 5 go.
 
Club training facilities are supposedly top notch, but putting on some size
is not Freo’s forte.
Shultz, JOM, we’re mature age recruits and Fyfe is old school from when we
had an intimidating mindset.
Stephen Hill is probably the best example of how driven we were. Another twig
when drafted.
Unless we get back to those standards, and coaching, sure we will surprise now
again, but I don’t see us taking the comp by storm.

I think the point with Conrad Williams is the likelihood of getting a better Category B rookie this year without going to other sports is pretty slim.

Our NGA prospects simply haven’t performed nearly well enough this season to enough be in the conversation for a list spot tbh.

Williams has some real AFL attributes imo. Good athleticism and good skills - it’s just building up his body to a point where he can use them.

I’m advocating for Williams to go, in fact support him staying but he must be in the discussions. OOC, played mostly reserves etc.

Hamling isn’t a definite delist. But likely we delist and consider as rookie list back-up for one more year.

I personally think we should do the same with Corbett.

No way Kuek is delisted. He just re-signed for 1 year.

I agree with recent comments on Williams. In the absence of any other better Cat B options he will get the chance for a proper pre-season and hopefully put on a bit of size.

I think there will be only 6, maybe 7 changes which is less than usual but after last year that is preferable from my perspective.

I think it was 2014 trade and ND we made bugger all changes. No trades at all and went and used our three usual picks which ended up being Weller, Blakely & Langdon. Then added Deluca and Ethan Hughes as rookies. Only 4-5 changes (Tanner Smith was delisted and rookied).

I feel it is a good year to consolidate if possible. Look for a moneyball trade (that improves the team) if one becomes available - especially if Henry is on the way out.

Tell suitors for Darcy and Cox to bugger off. On Darcy someone would have to be willing to sell the farm. If they are then I guess my thoughts go out the window.

With regards to Reidy if we decide to delist him we really need to look at a ready made mature ruck who can come in and play when Darcy is injured. If Jackson is injured I feel we can make do with pinch ruck like Treacy.

Hamling has played 3*, 1, 1 & 0 games over the past 4 yrs. I like him and what he has done but with the list the way it is I think the club has to back one of the young guys to fill that role next year, it would be ideal for their development.
 
I’m advocating for Williams to go, in fact support him staying but he must be in the discussions. OOC, played mostly reserves etc.



Hamling has played 3*, 1, 1 & 0 games over the past 4 yrs. I like him and what he has done but with the list the way it is I think the club has to back one of the young guys to fill that role next year, it would be ideal for their development.
I agree with most of everything Patty but Williams isnt going to be in discussions as a Cat B player I wouldnt think. There would have to be specifically a remarkable NGA talent we are getting after pick 40 to justify it IMO. Has looked very promising at Peel
 

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I’m advocating for Williams to go, in fact support him staying but he must be in the discussions. OOC, played mostly reserves etc.



Hamling has played 3*, 1, 1 & 0 games over the past 4 yrs. I like him and what he has done but with the list the way it is I think the club has to back one of the young guys to fill that role next year, it would be ideal for their development.
You need some experience, if Pearce or Cox or both were to go down with injury early next year I would far prefer Hamling to be available as opposed to Draper or Davies.
 
Tippett couldn't be replaced so it's definitely only 4

Now we have proof that it's been done before, there is a chance that it only happens every 1 in 10 years or so

I still think hamling goes
Anyway, since when have the Dockers been limited by things that have never been done before? Troy and his electric guitar, hauling anchors on floats etc etc??
Just because its rare doesnt mean we shouldnt do it. I mean, Freo flags are rare.

My expectations would be if you trade away all your future draft picks to get a Unicorn, the following year you may get in less players, regardless of the fact that ON AVERAGE, it would be roughly wise to turnover about 10% of your list every year so the whole list is refreshed over the ten year players life cycle. If Freo make list decisions this year based on what everyone else usually does, instead of whats right for the list we have in front of us, then we truly are doomed.

Notwithstanding those sentiments, and thanks to Dockeroo and his handy helper Snuff, we are now all well prepared that its most likely, statistically speaking, to be at least 5 or 6 changes.
 
These discussions continually are arguing the wrong thing. If you want to keep Hamling you need to either
A) Justify why turning over less players then any club basically ever is worth it; or
B) Justify cutting Reidy, Sturt or Stanley instead...
I’m not fussed either way but Hamling can be accommodated via Rookie list.

Reidy I’m not sold on. Perhaps we could delist and get him to train along with Sam Naismith and a couple of others for SSP rookie.

Sturt remains out of contract so every chance he could leave. I’d prefer we keep.

Delist and Rookie list options:
2 of Corbett, Hamling or Wagner

Delist:
Benning, Colyer, Wilson, possibly Reidy

Rookie Promotions:
Treacy, Banfield

Trade:
Henry

That would give us 4ND and 1 Rookie. If Sturt goes then we are up to 6 changes with the club likely to look at trading someone in.

I reckon 5-6 changes, which as you say is at the low end of the average.
 
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Wow!!
What had been happening in here the last few hours Snuffaluphagus 😂😂😂

Ok let me have the opportunity to defend myself.
I look a look at 10 years of historical trends in AFL player list turnover year to year in my earlier comment. I chose 10 years as it’s a nice round number. 2013-2022, to be honest I didn’t even look at 2012 as the data I had was pretty overwhelming to that point.

If it’s true that Adelaide turned over just 4 players in 2012, well that’s fair enough but my original point still stands I reckon.

I think that the introduction of two new teams at the turn of the decade 2010 and 11 may have slightly distorted what one might call “steady state” list management at that time so I would be cautious interpreting data from 2010-13, all of which drafts were very heavily compromised and would have influenced list management decisions and player turnover at that time.

Everyone is attached to Hamling for sound reasons - he’s a decent backup.
The question I have that would challenge you guys that want to keep him.
Do you think we can win the flag in 2024?
If that answer to that question is no, then there is ZERO justification to keep a 31 year old depth player on the list at the expense of another young talent.
That is an opportunity cost a bottom 4 club should not be making.


I’ll add another point - people saying we made 10 list changes last year so that’s reason to only make 4 this year - 10 is actually quite common. I would say 8 is average. Collingwood made 9 last year for example. They’ll be making more than 4 this year too I guarantee you that.

All of this comes back to the obsession with giving guys like Banfield 2 years (one was perfectly fine) and Hughes 3 years (two was fine) and Brodie 3 years (two was fine) and a number of others. When you do that - you end up with these scenarios.

As an aside - FFS did I see someone say it would be harsh to delist Benning??? 🙈🙈🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Finally - this draft is one of the last handful before Tassie comes in and it starts to be compromised. We have to have extra talent in the 2023-2025 draft class in the shed to compensate for what will likely be substantially reduced draft capital from 2026 -2029 as tas gets established. An others have said, It’s not just about next year. It’s about the next 12-15 years.
 
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