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List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

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Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant
 
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Taylor said:
The third option here is that Hamling is the best choice for that last list spot on the rookie list than any player that would be available.

We wouldn't be cutting quality players to meet a standard of numbers of players delisted, it is possible that we have a full squad of AFL talent.

I think Fremantle could cut all of: Wilson, Hamling, Colyer, Benning, Hughes, Emmett, Wagner, Banfield with a view to later rookie the contracted players of Hughes, Emmett, Wagner (maybe) and Banfield.

Even just selecting them again at the end of the national draft if required, really just opening up list spots for the purpose of hoarding picks.

It would only be players like Wilson, Colyer, Benning, Emmett who would gain free agency by doing that and I'd argue most of those players are gone anyway.

There's plenty of wiggle room without losing Sturt or even Henry.
Click to expand...

We could only move 2 players to the rookie list, unless we cull more rookies. It would purely be for pick trading options as you suggest or accounting purposes ($80k is it? Of rookie wage that doesn’t get counted in TPP). I doubt the club will mess around that much for picks in 50-60’s.
 
Patty_Moz said:
We could only move 2 players to the rookie list, unless we cull more rookies. It would purely be for pick trading options as you suggest or accounting purposes ($80k is it? Of rookie wage that doesn’t get counted in TPP). I doubt the club will mess around that much for picks in 50-60’s.
Click to expand...
Promote Banfield/Treacy and Delist Reidy. That is three spots.

Reidy has been ok at Peel. Nothing special but the club don’t deem him ready to play AFL. The fact that with Darcy out they have gone for Corbett as KPF and had Treacy play second fiddle doesn’t bode well for him in my opinion.

Reidy was drafted onto the Rookie list as ready made replacement. He is also keeping big Knobel out of the league team. Knobel actually played quite well for Peel league. But has to play Reserves each week.

If Reidy doesn’t play AFL before season is out I won’t be surprised if he is one of the names being cut.
 
Been reading through this thread now about the number of list changes and what not. Anyway, pretty clear Hamling is gone in my opinion.

Davies has real potential as does Draper, plus Luke Ryan can always play a bit taller if Pearce or Cox get injured. Could even throw someone like Corbett down back too if really necessary but don't think it'll come to that, our injury run has been very solid the last few years.
 
Superkoops said:
Promote Banfield/Treacy and Delist Reidy. That is three spots.

Reidy has been ok at Peel. Nothing special but the club don’t deem him ready to play AFL. The fact that with Darcy out they have gone for Corbett as KPF and had Treacy play second fiddle doesn’t bode well for him in my opinion.

Reidy was drafted onto the Rookie list as ready made replacement. He is also keeping big Knobel out of the league team. Knobel actually played quite well for Peel league. But has to play Reserves each week.

If Reidy doesn’t play AFL before season is out I won’t be surprised if he is one of the names being cut.
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Would be a little stiff for Reidy if we delist him after 1 season though. I don't even remember the last time we cut someone after one year, even Dillon O'Reilly got another year after we drafted him and he wasn't very good at all.
 

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Superkoops said:
Promote Banfield/Treacy and Delist Reidy. That is three spots.

Reidy has been ok at Peel. Nothing special but the club don’t deem him ready to play AFL. The fact that with Darcy out they have gone for Corbett as KPF and had Treacy play second fiddle doesn’t bode well for him in my opinion.

Reidy was drafted onto the Rookie list as ready made replacement. He is also keeping big Knobel out of the league team. Knobel actually played quite well for Peel league. But has to play Reserves each week.

If Reidy doesn’t play AFL before season is out I won’t be surprised if he is one of the names being cut.
Click to expand...

That’s 1x rookie list spot for Reidy. Treacy and Banfield are already on the main list, even if they weren’t transferring them between lists doesn’t free up more spots.

The list is full currently (38 main, 4 rookie, 2 B rookie) so to bring in a new player, 1x player has to be delisted, not transferred from main to rookie or vice versa.
 
freo_leo29 said:
Hughes had just come off 2 seasons where he missed a total of 1 game

Then played every game in 2021 til injury


Club thought he was locked B22, when you think about it, with the exclusion of last season he has been locked B22 since the start of 2019
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Now he has played every game of 2023. I mean he is playing to his contract/potential.
 
Hamling has been good for us, provided something solid down back over the years, but the level of game time he's had over the last four years doesn't justify a new contract, it's sad but it's the right move.

He'll get picked up somewhere or he'll go and be a really good defender in the WAFL.
 
There is close to zero chance we go with anything other than 36, 6 and 2 on our list.

The club would rather take the small chance they lose players they probably contracted too long anyway over than pay an extra 160k or whatever it is for two extra senior listed players rather than rookies - it’s probably more now tbh.
 
Superkoops said:
Promote Banfield/Treacy and Delist Reidy. That is three spots.

Reidy has been ok at Peel. Nothing special but the club don’t deem him ready to play AFL. The fact that with Darcy out they have gone for Corbett as KPF and had Treacy play second fiddle doesn’t bode well for him in my opinion.

Reidy was drafted onto the Rookie list as ready made replacement. He is also keeping big Knobel out of the league team. Knobel actually played quite well for Peel league. But has to play Reserves each week.

If Reidy doesn’t play AFL before season is out I won’t be surprised if he is one of the names being cut.
Click to expand...
I’d be very surprised if Reidy is cut at seasons end.
 
I do think we need to have a good long think about the ruck situation. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that we have two pure rucks sitting in the wings and neither has gotten a go when we were short of Darcy.

Knobel (when he played seniors) seems like a much more talented tap ruck but more raw than Reidy and not yet built for AFL seniors. It is fine this year that he is stuck in the reserves but going into next year all things being equal you would expect him to be good enough to predominantly play WAFL seniors. He was okay in his senior games, his numbers (hitouts and possessions) in reserves are very healthy, he does seem to get around the ground well for a big guy and I tend to think his hitouts are just better (placement and control) than Reidy's. I suppose with Kuek down if he had been okay forward we could have brought him into the seniors to play tall forward, but hasn't happened.

On the flipside I think one can argue that Reidy has been okay at WAFL; his hitout numbers especially recently have been good but he has been lacking around the ground (As pointed out by the Peel coach) and is a bit of a liability in that space; arguably this to do with his fitness. Reidy is a mature age (23) and I wonder if that is going to improve much more even with a preseason? Reidy was also previously spoken about as a backup forward but he doesn't really play much there and again that hasn't been an option when Kuek went down to get Knobel in.

I'm not normally a ruthless person but I do think we should make a call and go all in on one of them and cull the other from the list. Something is not working there for mine and it needs to change. That might still mean that Jackson+Treacy is the backup option in the short term but at least we are giving full opportunity to develop for the preferred option.
 

Out-of-contract Fremantle players’ status, including Liam Henry, Joel Hamling and Nathan Wilson

The time is now for Fremantle to start making decisions on out-of-contract players for 2024. ELIZA REILLY runs the rule over the Dockers yet to re-sign, to determine who stays and who goes.


3 min read
August 2, 2023 - 8:00AM
Liam Henry is among a group of Dockers who remain unsigned for 2024. Picture: Martin Keep/Getty Images

Liam Henry is among a group of Dockers who remain unsigned for 2024. Picture: Martin Keep/Getty Images

With one month left to play of the 2023 AFL season, the time is now for Fremantle to start making decisions on out-of-contract players.
Thanks to a signing spree in the last few weeks, most of Fremantle’s required players have already put pen to paper. But a handful of Dockers remain out of contract as the season draws to a close.

We take a look at who deserves an extension and whose time might be up at Fremantle.

Eric ‘Roy’ Benning​

Was seen as a project player when he was selected as a Next Generation Academy prospect two years ago but the low-cost gamble hasn’t quite come off. Benning has played just one WAFL league game in the past two seasons and he’s spent the entire of 2023 in Peel Thunder’s reserves side. Struggled in Fremantle’s fitness testing earlier this year and while he has raw talent, the Dockers may be forced to cut their losses.

Joel Hamling​

Hamling has been one of the feel good stories of this AFL season and he should get a contract offer on the back of it. The 30-year-old played his third game of the season against Geelong on Saturday. It marked just his fourth game in two seasons and his fifth in the past three. He’s been dealt his fair share of injury blows over the years but against the Cats, Hamling was strong and solid in defence. If Brennan Cox is fit to return this week, Fremantle should explore keeping Hamling and throwing Cox up forward as a target. Hamling will get an offer to remain at Fremantle but he should also be asking himself if it’s worth exploring his options. He’s good enough to play in the AFL but just hasn’t been afforded consistent opportunities.

Liam Henry​

The Dockers would like to keep Henry, but they won’t be desperate if the battle for his signature proves too difficult. Coach Justin Longmuir has already deemed Henry a flight risk and declared the ball is in his court when it comes to re-signing, indicating an offer or at the very least an indication of his worth is on the table from Fremantle. If Henry continues to develop, the 21-year-old could grow into a solid wingman and a 150-game AFL player. But Fremantle won’t die in a ditch to keep him and Henry’s probably isn’t worth an awful lot on the trade table. The fact he hasn’t re-signed yet is ringing alarm bells.

Nathan Wilson​

Wilson isn’t Fremantle’s best AFL option but he’s far from the worst either. The 30-year-old has been an apt replacement anytime the Dockers have found themselves short a rebounding defender but this year the likes of Corey Wagner and Karl Worner have jumped ahead in the queue. Even with Brandon Walker injured for the rest of the season, Wilson hasn’t been called upon despite being picked ahead of him for the first month of 2023. Wilson has averaged nearly 19 disposals in the WAFL this year and a one-year extension would be deserved. But he could also be on the cusp if Fremantle feel they’ve moved past him.

Sam Sturt​

It’s been a slow start to life as an AFL footballer for Sam Sturt. After kicking off his career with three goals on debut and a Rising Star nomination in 2020, Sturt has been struck down by a variety of serious injuries and been made to fight for survival on the Dockers list. An improved defensive approach has been crucial to Sturt earning his opportunity this year. He’s played 10 games so far, kicking nine goals. Sturt isn’t a star, yet, but he’s good enough to play AFL and he’ll continue to find his feet. Deserves an extension.

Travis Colyer​

Moving into the final month of 2023, Colyer is one of the more at-risk veterans on Fremantle’s list. After a knee injury requiring surgery kept him on the sidelines for the first few weeks of the season, the 31-year-old returned to the WAFL in round six and he’s remained there ever since. He’s been serviceable since crossing from Essendon and played 18 games last year, but with a firing small forward fleet the Dockers may have moved past Colyer.

Ethan Stanley​

The mid-season draftee has impressed since arriving at the Dockers, starting the past two games as substitute. He’s got something about him and with a full AFL pre-season, he could very well start in Fremantle’s best 22 next season. Definitely keep.
 

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Ysaye said:
I do think we need to have a good long think about the ruck situation. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that we have two pure rucks sitting in the wings and neither has gotten a go when we were short of Darcy.

Knobel (when he played seniors) seems like a much more talented tap ruck but more raw than Reidy and not yet built for AFL seniors. It is fine this year that he is stuck in the reserves but going into next year all things being equal you would expect him to be good enough to predominantly play WAFL seniors. He was okay in his senior games, his numbers (hitouts and possessions) in reserves are very healthy, he does seem to get around the ground well for a big guy and I tend to think his hitouts are just better (placement and control) than Reidy's. I suppose with Kuek down if he had been okay forward we could have brought him into the seniors to play tall forward, but hasn't happened.

On the flipside I think one can argue that Reidy has been okay at WAFL; his hitout numbers especially recently have been good but he has been lacking around the ground (As pointed out by the Peel coach) and is a bit of a liability in that space; arguably this to do with his fitness. Reidy is a mature age (23) and I wonder if that is going to improve much more even with a preseason? Reidy was also previously spoken about as a backup forward but he doesn't really play much there and again that hasn't been an option when Kuek went down to get Knobel in.

I'm not normally a ruthless person but I do think we should make a call and go all in on one of them and cull the other from the list. Something is not working there for mine and it needs to change. That might still mean that Jackson+Treacy is the backup option in the short term but at least we are giving full opportunity to develop for the preferred option.
Click to expand...

It's going to be hard for Max to get options at WAFL league despite being good enough. Even with Kuek out, Peel have Smith and Edwards on top of our Reidy and Max, all roughly around WAFL league level but they can't play all of them with a max of two being the most effective. We (rightfully) are pushing Reidy as our first pick and then (again, rightfully) have to allow a Peel player to have the other spot.
 
Ge3ks said:
Nailed it.

Delist Benning and Colyer.
Extend Hamling, Sturt and Stanley.
Try to extend Henry.
Wilson is the only head-scratcher.
Click to expand...
I disagree, I think we should be doing a fair bit more to retain Liam Henry.
All you have to do is think what he will be like in 2 - 3 years when we could be challenging.
Pull your head out of your arse Bell and Longmuir, ignore his manager and put something decent in front of him FFS.
Die in a ditch? Bloody hell.
 
mayne iac said:
I disagree, I think we should be doing a fair bit more to retain Liam Henry.
All you have to do is think what he will be like in 2 - 3 years when we could be challenging.
Pull your head out of your arse Bell and Longmuir, ignore his manager and put something decent in front of him FFS.
Die in a ditch? Bloody hell.
Click to expand...

Colin Young is smart enough to see if someone is upping the money offer to try and buy the player you just sit back and let them keep going.

Liam needs to look after Liam and if the best place for him to play footy is here then he should sign a short contract of one or two years to cement himself in the side and earn that long term deal on life changing money.

If he is already being offered that long term deal on life changing money elsewhere then he should take it.
 
When was the last time a team recruited exclusively from the national or rookie draft in an offseason with no free agents or traded in players incoming, or train-on players in Dec/Jan? I’m sure it happens but wouldn’t be all that common I’d say.
 
Dockeroo said:
When was the last time a team recruited exclusively from the national or rookie draft in an offseason with no free agents or traded in players incoming, or train-on players in Dec/Jan? I’m sure it happens but wouldn’t be all that common I’d say.
Click to expand...

I think it would have happened at Freo multiple times the last ten years.

Edit..

2020, 2014
 

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With the picks we have it makes sense to not do much.

Take our first couple and then de-list/rookie/elevate as needed.

We can cut Hamling next year.
If Cox blows a knee in game 1 next year, we'd have to play Davies and he's not ready for a whole year
 
Lach72 said:
With the picks we have it makes sense to not do much.

Take our first couple and then de-list/rookie/elevate as needed.

We can cut Hamling next year.
If Cox blows a knee in game 1 next year, we'd have to play Davies and he's not ready for a whole year
Click to expand...
It would be timely to have a consolidation approach in the off-season as far as the playing list goes (given the upheaval of late). Stay the hell away from big moves and plays for saviours, instead let the players feel settled/more connected and focus on internal development.
 
I like the idea of having Hamling on the list for another year, but can also see that the limited number of spots available means he'll probably be delisted. And I don't think that would be the great risk some are suggesting.

If Cox or Pearce blows his knee in preseason, I reckon w'ere more likely to see a reshuffling of roles than Davies coming in. Pearce of Chapman takes Cox's spot, Ryan plays tall, Hughes stays in the side, and with Wagner and Worner both on the cusp, there's depth there to draw on in order to backfill Ryan's role. Another preseason should see Davies and/or Draper at least ready to be tried for a game or two if need be.

And if both Cox and Pearce blow their knees, I reckon we'd likely struggle anyway, so not having Hamling to call on wouldn't be the factor that kills the season.
 
Heath Chapman is the same height as Nathan Murphy

I reckon we will be fine without hammer
 
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