List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Purple Suit]

It was last year.

I'll post it again so it's clearer, this graph shows the number of players each team has who have played 100 games and have had enough time to start their family so that their sons are draft age. Some variance will be expected for early starters, but let's pretend that is fairly uniform across the league.

This is where we stand. This is our pool to get a player from.

This is the issue.

View attachment 1807007

The Dad window is too big though. Age of 70 means they are having kids at 52, yet you have excluded anyone under 27.

It's more like a 25-40 age window when 95% of the players are having kids. I recon they are going early than others in society as the AFL player is financially settled, has a lot of women trying to settle down with them and the lifestyle for most long term players is probably less partying anyway.

 

[Bender571]

Peter Daicos debuted in 1979. He could've retired in 1983 and still had a son eligible for a father son selection in 2021.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Also worth mentioning, statistically a lot easier to get to the minimum games threshold when you're not travelling ever second week, or in the case of pre 1986, travelling out of your home state at all

Take Pav and Mundy out of our all times game list and you'll see it's pretty bleak

 

[gungho]

Alternatively, to take a talented dickhead and make him captain. Toby Greene has gone to another level.

Is Toby Greene a dickhead? Seems like a extremely competitive guy that does what ever he can on the field to win a game. I haven't heard much about him off field, and he actually comes across as fairly humble in interviews (Also with a sense of humour, which is rare for an AFL player).

 

[Dockeroo]

Is Toby Greene a dickhead? Seems like an extremely competitive guy that does what ever he can on the field to win a game. I haven't heard much about him off field, and he actually comes across as fairly humble in interviews (Also with a sense of humour, which is rare for an AFL player).

Nah he’s got a bit of a rap sheet alright but not so much in recent times

 

[gungho]

Was really interested in this father son rule and how it affects Freo so looked up the median age in Australia for Father's to have first child and it's 33. Now, if the average father is having 2.2 kids then you'd say the median age for both kids is probably 34/35.

I think what Taylor is alluding to, is currently we only have 49 Freo players that have played 100 games (or more).
The oldest one is Jason Norrish (at 51) the youngest is Andrew Brayshaw

8

Andrew Brayshaw

Age

26

Ht

185cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.3

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.1

4star

D

18.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

10.8

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

3.1

4star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

(at 23) and all 49 fall between those ages.

The ultimate age for father/son (based on a median age of 35 for fathers, plus 18 years) is 53. Which none of them are.

The good news, we will get some father sons.
The bad news, we might have to wait 15-20 years.
Also bad news, and this is going to sound really harsh, there were some guys that played 100 games for Freo that I'm not sure would have made it to 100 games at another club. Norrish, Bandy, Suban, Walker, Sutcliffe, Schammer, Steven Dodd

Steven Dodd

Age

42

Ht

191cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

7.1

3star

HB

7.5

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

, Zac Clarke ect.

 

[Purple Suit]

Peter Daicos debuted in 1979. He could've retired in 1983 and still had a son eligible for a father son selection in 2021.

Daicos is the outlier. Marcus Ashcroft & Adrian Fletcher debuted 10 years later in 89 but both could have played 100 games for Freo if we recruited them in 95.

Going forward, every year we have players/kids coming up while the older players that we didn't have access too will drop off.

Was really interested in this father son rule and how it affects Freo so looked up the median age in Australia for Father's to have first child and it's 33. Now, if the average father is having 2.2 kids then you'd say the median age for both kids is probably 34/35.
Say you put 7 years before and 7 years after, that would mean the majority of kids dad's are having is between 28-42.
The good news - we will definitely get some father sons.
The bad - the majority might come in 15-30 years, unfortunately.

It won't be that long. We would have had some available already if they were good enough. The bigger issue and pure luck part is having the son of a gun being a gun of a son.

 

[Taylor]

The Dad window is too big though. Age of 70 means they are having kids at 52, yet you have excluded anyone under 27.

It's more like a 25-40 age window when 95% of the players are having kids. I recon they are going early than others in society as the AFL player is financially settled, has a lot of women trying to settle down with them and the lifestyle for most long term players is probably less partying anyway.

Can you explain what you mean about excluding anyone under 27?

I'm trying to demonstrate the pool from which clubs can draw father sons. If I'm understanding you correctly, you might be suggesting that someone had a baby at 9 years old.

Of the men who have played 100 games league wide, that graph shows how we compare.

It should be no surprise that the clubs with the most recent father sons correlate pretty highly to that distribution.

 

[Purple Suit]

Can you explain what you mean about excluding anyone under 27?

I'm trying to demonstrate the pool from which clubs can draw father sons. If I'm understanding you correctly, you might be suggesting that someone had a baby at 9 years old.

Of the men who have played 100 games league wide, that graph shows how we compare.

It should be no surprise that the clubs with the most recent father sons correlate pretty highly to that distribution.

You're adding 18 to that number though. 18 + 27 = 45 year old Dad is the youngest 100 game player who makes the graph. Roger Hayden is 42 + has 4 boys for instance but not in your graph (including a son in the next gen academy year 12). Someone as old as Gerard Neesham would make your graph, it distorts the data.

What I'm saying is it isn't as bad as your graph looks and going forward, every year we will have potential kids come up. Go back 10 years and it was that bad.

 

[Taylor]

You're adding 18 to that number though. 18 + 27 = 45 year old Dad is the youngest 100 game player who makes the graph. Roger Hayden is 42 + has 4 boys for instance but not in your graph (including a son in the next gen academy year 12). Someone as old as Gerard Neesham would make your graph, it distorts the data.

What I'm saying is it isn't as bad as your graph looks and going forward, every year we will have potential kids come up. Go back 10 years and it was that bad.

I see your point now, I did allow from around 27 to start their family and you can look at our current list with three dads on it and all of them are thirty or older.

I noted last season when I posted that graph, again showing how we compare on that stat to the rest of the competition also on that stat, that the indigenous men tended to have their children younger.

As you'll note on our list the only fathers are such.

I don't think it compromises the value of the graph. We are clearly operating in a hole that aside from a few other clubs aren't existing in but happy to be convinced otherwise.

I was using that fact to justify why Fremantle and Port should have an academy similar to Sydney, similar to GWS and Gold Coast.

 

[apuchar]

 

[s_wd6]

A rough overview shows me that there are about 20 players who have played 100+ games for us and have sons. The majority of their kids are very young (<10 years old). Compare that to the victorian clubs who have 150 extra years of players. Would be interseting to see the number of f/s players in the league who's fathers debuted after our club was formed.

 

[Joao]

Disagree.
Football is stale, boring hobby during the week for some. Too much time and money throughout pre season, and during the week in season
Have to temper expectations and have players that may push the envelope in some areas.

Talent often doesn’t come from hard work/behaviour. Can go back years of each team winning flags that have a talented but blemished past

Agree to disagree.

 

[Vintage]

Peter Daicos debuted in 1979. He could've retired in 1983 and still had a son eligible for a father son selection in 2021.

Daics born in 51?

 

[Vintage]

I see your point now, I did allow from around 27 to start their family and you can look at our current list with three dads on it and all of them are thirty or older.

I noted last season when I posted that graph, again showing how we compare on that stat to the rest of the competition also on that stat, that the indigenous men tended to have their children younger.

As you'll note on our list the only fathers are such.

I don't think it compromises the value of the graph. We are clearly operating in a hole that aside from a few other clubs aren't existing in but happy to be convinced otherwise.

I was using that fact to justify why Fremantle and Port should have an academy similar to Sydney, similar to GWS and Gold Coast.

Might be interesting to see the split of 100 game players born 1968 to 1987 - would give a better idea of eligible players most likely to have sons just enter afl or soon to be eligible.

 

[BringBackTheAnchor]

Also note the fact that there is 2 sons of former Fremantle club captains at different clubs.

 

[Wizard]

Also note the fact that there is 2 sons of former Fremantle club captains at different clubs.

And wouldn't both of them perfectly compliment our list, one on each wing and i reckon we'd almost be complete.

 

[blue shark]

And wouldn't both of them perfectly compliment our list, one on each wing and i reckon we'd almost be complete.

Talent alone doesn’t equate to success.
Definitely helps but we have seen the greatest collection of draft picks in
both GWS and GC achieve nothing.
The talk of dynasties at the time are
now just that.
Interesting now both clubs have finally got serious about coaching talent instead.
GWS have Montgomery, Hart and Mumfield, with two of three having 13 years experience in the job.
Our off field situation has to be questioned?

 

[Purple Suit]

Talent alone doesn’t equate to success.
Definitely helps but we have seen the greatest collection of draft picks in
both GWS and GC achieve nothing.
The talk of dynasties at the time are
now just that.
Interesting now both clubs have finally got serious about coaching talent instead.
GWS have Montgomery, Hart and Mumfield, with two of three having 13 years experience in the job.
Our off field situation has to be questioned?

After a down year where we lost a lot of experience and still had 10 wins? We were the 2nd youngest team in the comp in 2023.

All the successful coaches of late have had very patient clubs. We need to be patient too rather than a knee jerk reaction. We're building something but it's not a linear build or normal. Hopefully that ends up setting us apart in a few years time when things really click.

 

[blue shark]

After a down year where we lost a lot of experience and still had 10 wins? We were the 2nd youngest team in the comp in 2023.

All the successful coaches of late have had very patient clubs. We need to be patient too rather than a knee jerk reaction. We're building something but it's not a linear build or normal. Hopefully that ends up setting us apart in a few years time when things really click.

I’d be happier if we added a few guys as assistants that have more than a decade of experience.
I’d also argue that a seasoned list manager wouldn’t lose so many players.
The same inexperienced guys who Ross wanted after 2015, yet the improvement was only gradual.
As suppose footy is like a religion and you need to have faith

 

[ignoramus]

Is Toby Greene a dickhead? Seems like a extremely competitive guy that does what ever he can on the field to win a game. I haven't heard much about him off field, and he actually comes across as fairly humble in interviews (Also with a sense of humour, which is rare for an AFL player).

Easily my favourite non-Freo player.

 

[Nodgey]

Anyone else see the banner at the Port/GWS game? "IN TOBY WE STRUT" Absolute gold!!

 

[mr.11]

Freo got any future father son picks coming?

 

[Ge3ks]

Freo got any future father son picks coming?

Probably.

 

[ubiquitous226]

What do we think we'll target in the draft?

Assuming we get Sharp in and trade Henry out which is about all I expect from the trade period, then we'd likely take 4 picks over all of the drafts.

Unless there was a particularly classy ball user available, I'd like to see us take some combo of;
Small forward
Key position depth (forward or back)
Midfield depth
Lockdown defender