List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Why is everyone focused and n whether Luke Jackson would have or wouldn’t have come home and bot on the real argument that he’s far more valuable than Cerra?
I don’t understand the logic of saying we got “massive unders” for admittedly very good but also run of the mill midfielder that is not a regular game changer.
Is anyone actually suggesting Cerra is worth the same as Chris Judd or Luke Jackson?

I think we have a lot of factors against us to be successful. We can take it as making excuses I suppose but unlike others, I really think we have to be close to perfect to be competitive / win a flag. This includes trading. We need to be Adelaide levels arseholes at the trade table and we simply arent unless contracted

 

[DragoDelph]

I stand corrected on the Melb meeting.

The chance of Luke backing out or going elsewhere would justify the price we paid.

Your position apoears to be we're either super generous or completely stupid.

No such thing as a done deal.

To the original point Cerra & Jackson are not directly comparable - LJ far more valuable coming from a premiership now team and we had other plans if we could move Cerra early.

Yes

 

[JamGo]

It's like when you audition for a play or musical in high school.

"We had a lot of great auditions, and we would pick everyone if we had the choice! But we can only select a few lucky people."

These lucky people don't yet know that it's not always worth getting on the lucky list.

 

[Moo]

Probably a combination of arrogance, ineptitude and yes, being too nice

Just rubbish.

The only justification for that price is you get a shot at a Jackson type talent rarely- even rarer if you're Freo and you want to mitigate the risk of not getting it done.

If Melb dug in and said no - you'd risk walking him through to us in the PSD?

Cerra is a piece - not getting him no where near the damage of us not getting LJ.

 

[wakojako]

I think we have a lot of factors against us to be successful. We can take it as making excuses I suppose but unlike others, I really think we have to be close to perfect to be competitive / win a flag. This includes trading. We need to be Adelaide levels arseholes at the trade table and we simply arent unless contracted

Big one is luring assistant coaches. I liked the suggestion of Barlow since he now has some runs on the board. Our midfield coaching desperately needs a shake up.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

If Melb dug in and said no - you'd risk walking him through to us in the PSD?

Cerra is a piece - not getting him no where near the damage of us not getting LJ.

Yes, exactly, Melbourne dug in, we did and do not. Poor trading

 

[MadMac]

I think we have a lot of factors against us to be successful. We can take it as making excuses I suppose but unlike others, I really think we have to be close to perfect to be competitive / win a flag. This includes trading. We need to be Adelaide levels arseholes at the trade table and we simply arent unless contracted

That’s great. And I agree with that.
It doesn’t answer my question though. You can try to mug a club in the trade, hell, I’d be pissed off if we didn’t try every time. That doesn’t mean that if we couldn’t pull off a theft that we somehow got “massive unders”
We let players go for massive unders in the past, Certa aint one of them

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Big one is luring assistant coaches. I liked the suggestion of Barlow since he now has some runs on the board. Our midfield coaching desperately needs a shake up.

I mean, I could write a thesis on it

• Travel
• Not big enough to have a "platinum" level sponsorship with local media to help with off-field shit
• Not small enough to warrant any kind of help
• WA based team with only the ability to trade in club rejects or WA players
• The draft, the number 1 way we can bring in talent, is compromised to a ridiculous degree of which we get almost none of the benefits of said compromise.
• Our WA players arent even locks to stay anymore

 

[Taylor]

What is an acceptable trade value for Sean Darcy

4

Sean Darcy

Age

26

Ht

203cm

Wt

111kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

28.8

5star

D

6.8

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

20.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

6.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

32.0

5star

, under contract? Assuming they are paying him what is the largest contract in AFL history.

North start with #2, #3, #11, #14 and their picks in 2025.

I personally believe that there should be a massive price added on top for enormous contracts offered to contracted players, especially when they are club champions.

I would want to make them bleed to get him. Absolutely bleed.

 

[Purple Suit]

ok after wasting a lot of time talking about Cox to Adelaide are we really going to go through this again with Darcy to North now?

It worked last time, Darcy should be resigned before bounce down.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

That’s great. And I agree with that.
It doesn’t answer my question though. You can try to mug a club in the trade, hell, I’d be pissed off if we didn’t try every time. That doesn’t mean that if we couldn’t pull off a theft that we somehow got “massive unders”
We let players go for massive unders in the past, Certa aint one of them

Yeah, I just disagree on the Cerra trade value. It wasnt massive unders sure, but if I use other trades as a base, we should have gotten more and Carlton are going to reap the benefit.

 

[Moo]

Why is everyone focused and n whether Luke Jackson would have or wouldn’t have come home and bot on the real argument that he’s far more valuable than Cerra?
I don’t understand the logic of saying we got “massive unders” for admittedly very good but also run of the mill midfielder that is not a regular game changer.
Is anyone actually suggesting Cerra is worth the same as Chris Judd or Luke Jackson?

Nailed it.

Luke Jackson is so much more valuable than Cerra.

Which is why using Cerra as a comparator is bupkis.

Plus you get a chance to recruit Jackson - you take it and you get the deal done.

 

[MadMundy]

These lucky people don't yet know that it's not always worth getting on the lucky list.

Eh, I loved doing school musicals personally. Gave me an excuse to skip class to go and do rehearsals.

 

[Moo]

Yes, exactly, Melbourne dug in, we did and do not. Poor trading

Unless we don't get Jackson because you misread his family and he stays on at Melbourne or gets convinced that the PSD is a threat.

We get a few more draftees.

Certain players you just get the deal done.

Clever by us - Jackson in is a win for a decade.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Unless we don't get Jackson because you misread his family and he stays on at Melbourne or gets convinced that the PSD is a threat.

We get a few more draftees.

Certain players you just get the deal done.

Clever by us - Jackson in is a win for a decade.

Dont disagree Moo, I was arguing with a lot of people through the year that Jackson would be fantastic. My stance is we got Jackson for unders but we paid too much. Does that make sense outside being a greedy arseh*le? Absolutely not, but I think it's almost required to be successful

 

[Taylor]

We thought Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

177cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

was a gun when he left to Brisbane for two firsts with a second going back, but the rest of the competition and the AFL media didn't know he existed. Cerra was known by the AFL media because he was their boy coming home.

 

[E Shed]

Apart from Hawthorn, most of premiership have gone to teams with father son picks or academy players.

It’s a massive difference, what people don’t understand that the system has two discounts. Higher picks are 30-50% discount in points and the team a further 30% discount.

Getting Daicos for much second picks is criminal.

And Hawthorn just happened to have pick 1 when Hodge was there and 2 top 5 picks (one a priority) the year other teams were stupid enough to take Tambling, Deledio & Griffin in the top 4 leaving them Franklyn at 5 after having taken Roughhead at 2.

They had a lot of high picks after bottoming right out for a few years & put together their premiership list during that period. They picked up the likes of Birchall, Lewis, Gilham, Rioli all with first rounders.

They also picked the eyes out of a bunch of later picks, rookie picks, trades in those years including getting Mitchell for something ridiculous (Lachie Neale effect, 2 short too slow).

They got Breust with a rookie pick.
They brought in Gunston for essentially pick 24. Guerra for nothing except a preseason draft pick. Dew for next to nothing. Young in the rookie draft. The last few mentioned all played in the 2008 flag.

It was a superbly built list with a purpose built gameplan by a coach ahead of his time.

 

[JamGo]

Eh, I loved doing school musicals personally. Gave me an excuse to skip class to go and do rehearsals.

There was probably a pretty girl there

 

[gungho]

I get bloody annoyed with people's speculating on a very good 24 year olds draft value. You can't keep trading players out for picks (no matter how good the deal). It just won't work. At some point you need a high number of 22-29 year olds to win a flag.
We have done the majority of our list building for the next 5 years. We don't need new picks. We need continual development in what we have (which is, by the way, considered by many to be the best youth in the AFL).

The Darcy and Jackson combo is a game changer. We need to keep Sean Darcy

4

Sean Darcy

Age

26

Ht

203cm

Wt

111kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

28.8

5star

D

6.8

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

20.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

6.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

32.0

5star

at all costs.

 

[freo_leo29]

I stand corrected on the Melb meeting.

The chance of Luke backing out or going elsewhere would justify the price we paid.

Your position apoears to be we're either super generous or completely stupid.

No such thing as a done deal.

To the original point Cerra & Jackson are not directly comparable - LJ far more valuable coming from a premiership now team and we had other plans if we could move Cerra early.

Cerra is comparable to Shiel and Treloar tho...


I feel like people didn't even watch cerra this year, he is VERY good

 

[Taylor]

The Darcy and Jackson combo is a game changer.

Key point. Darcy in the side presents the opportunity of Jackson being the most elite player in the game, without him or another suitably decent tap ruck then Jackson is just an average ruckman who can kick a goal.

 

[freo_leo29]

Noone here ever said they wanted Jackson value for cerra btw

He was a comparison


Jackson went for 2 firsts and a second

Cerra should have been 2 firsts with a second going back, much less of a trade than Jackson...

Instead we only managed one first

 

[Tundrawolf]

I do not want to lose Darcy but having a read of the North board part of me wants to see their reaction when they realise pick 14 doesn't come close.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I do not want to lose Darcy but having a read of the North board part of me wants to see their reaction when they realise pick 14 doesn't come close.

Haha, you and me are so alike. My EXACT reaction.

I struggle to politely describe that boards opinion on what it would cost - and I squiz through like every boards opinions on value

 

[schmuttt]

I swear on my life as a Suma and Hackdorn apprentice, he was never ever going anywhere but Freo. Cerra was always widely reported as meeting and "being very impressed" with Melbourne by the way

Sorry for the intrusion.

Cerra would have been at Melbourne if we had the currency, but a deal was never happening. Jackson also would have stayed if we were prepared to match your bid but that was never happening either (And credit to Freo, you’ve got a star for 10 years).