List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Superkoops]

By that logic, you'd take the Pies forwardline over the Crows then? You can absolutely get ruck dominance in a game. It probably wouldn't be my choice to stack, but it can work.

No team is strong in every part of the field because there is a salary cap.

It would be the Treloar -> Pies price, which was 2x1st with a 2nd going back. Think both ended being pick 7s.

We got way less than that.

7 (2015), 8 (2016) and 65 > Treloar, 28

Makes an interesting comparison to LJ trade:

15, 7, 28-30 > LJ, 42, 57
(This is obviously my anticipated draft pick landing spots after compo and bid matching)

Really sucked that we had a bad year. Even 1 more win like the North Melbourne game and it would have looked like:
15, 10-11, 31-33 >LJ, 42, 57

 

[Catalpa]

I thought I might see people celebrating on this thread, seven years of mouthwatering cox performances to look forward to. But no, it is still bemoaning trades of years ago and fear of losing someone else. Enjoy the moment, posters.

 

[rgauci]

Has anyone got an up to date list for contracts?

Including the year they expire. It was mentioned that Amiss and Jackson are both 2029, like we suspected, but was never confirmed by the club. Cox until 2030. What about everyone else?

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

I thought I might see people celebrating on this thread, seven years of mouthwatering cox performances to look forward to. But no, it is still bemoaning trades of years ago and fear of losing someone else. Enjoy the moment, posters.

It's worse than that: it's bemoaning trades that you'd do again in a heartbeat. Cerra for Amiss is a trade I do 100 times out of 100. Luke Jackson for Matthew Jefferson (who has not lit it up in the VFL thus far), a pick 5 that will probably slide down to like 7-8 and a 2nd rounder where we got back some late 2022 picks is a trade I do 100 times out of 100 (unless that pick 7-8 becomes like Chris Judd).

Going back and forth about trades where we actually got a very good result because by some hypothetical, fairly arbitrary standard we "DiDn'T gEt EnOuGh" is silly.

 

[Ge3ks]

I thought I might see people celebrating on this thread, seven years of mouthwatering cox performances to look forward to. But no, it is still bemoaning trades of years ago and fear of losing someone else. Enjoy the moment, posters.

You're a day late bud. Start on page 432 and enjoy the revelry.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

It's worse than that: it's bemoaning trades that you'd do again in a heartbeat. Cerra for Amiss is a trade I do 100 times out of 100. Luke Jackson for Matthew Jefferson (who has not lit it up in the VFL thus far), a pick 5 that will probably slide down to like 7-8 and a 2nd rounder where we got back some late 2022 picks is a trade I do 100 times out of 100 (unless that pick 7-8 becomes like Chris Judd).

Going back and forth about trades where we actually got a very good result because by some hypothetical, fairly arbitrary standard we "DiDn'T gEt EnOuGh" is silly.

It’s a discussion forum, why not bemoan previous trades. I maintain, we don’t get any help anywhere, the only inherent advantages we have over any other club is good crowd numbers. WA players are as much likely to trade within Victoria as come back home these days so we don’t even get shared exclusive access to WA players anymore. No AFL hand outs, no F/S, no “no restrictions” academies, extremely hard to keep players it seems because we don’t have the off-field strength of a Carlton, WC or Collingwood.

We can’t control a lot of that, we can control what we do in trades. We have to be basically perfect to win a flag and our trading is a long way from perfect

 

[freo_leo29]

Lol

No one said we wanted Jackson value for Cerra we were just directly comparing his trade result with Jackson.

Jackson > Cerra

Therefore no great shock here ....
Jackson trade value > Cerra

The main issue in this debate is you & Taylor think Cerra is comparable with Jackson.

Nothing wrong with that but own it and stop trying to muddy the waters.

To sum it up you rate Cerra far higher than me and I obviously rate Jackson far higher than you.

For the record - Freo Bigfooty has become a bit of an echochamber.

The situation is directly comparable due to the rules that YOU BROIGHT UP

Go back and reread it...

 

[freo_leo29]

So would I.

We got a better deal for Cerra than the Pies did for Treloar so not sure how this plays into the Cerra deal was massive unders.

You do realise Treloar left GWS about the same ages as cerra?

 

[Dockeroo]

It's worse than that: it's bemoaning trades that you'd do again in a heartbeat. Cerra for Amiss is a trade I do 100 times out of 100. Luke Jackson for Matthew Jefferson (who has not lit it up in the VFL thus far), a pick 5 that will probably slide down to like 7-8 and a 2nd rounder where we got back some late 2022 picks is a trade I do 100 times out of 100 (unless that pick 7-8 becomes like Chris Judd).

Going back and forth about trades where we actually got a very good result because by some hypothetical, fairly arbitrary standard we "DiDn'T gEt EnOuGh" is silly.

To be fair I can understand why people like Snuffaluphagus are annoyed with some of the trade prices we have paid/been paid, and it’s when I watch games like last night I know why.

• we are a small fringe AFL club, in the context of the comp which is indelibly centred in Melbourne, rightly or wrongly.
• winning a flag for Fremantle is the cumulative sum of many things. Good drafting. Good trading. Good salary cap management. Having the best coaches. Having injury management that’s good. Finding the best game style. Getting lots of luck.
• it’s not an even playing field across the comp is the key point though. We are outsiders in this competition. Most casual AFL fans have no clue who 95% of the freo list are.
• we are disadvantaged in many areas. If I made a list of the pros and cons to being Fremantle in the AFL, I can’t think of many pros other than potentially getting more WA born players to be attracted to the club. At best, that is a tenuous advantage over big Melbourne clubs. We are losing more WA boys that we are attracting recently.
• the cons? Where do I start. Free agency is pretty much unavailable to Fremantle. Reece Conca is probably our best FA ever. The pies brought in McStay for free last year at 26 years old. A luxury we will never ever have.
• we don’t get to play at the MCG too often.
• our fixture is shit.
• teams like GC and GWS have massive draft advantages over us.
• we struggle to hold onto players into their late 20s when they are at their peak.
• travel and umpiring.
• there’s a heap more.

So, getting back to the original point. All we can do is accept these disadvantages. Try optimise the one advantage we have if a player like Jackson pops up once every few years.
And then - we got to be better than everyone else in the things that are not pros or cons. Trading is one of them. Trading is the same for all 18 clubs. To compensate for all the disadvantages we have to deal with, we need to be best in the league at trading. Best in the league at drafting. Have excellent development and coaches. We need to be better than 90% of other teams in these areas.

Collingwood can afford to butcher their cap and still play in 2 prelims in the following 3 years, because they are the biggest sporting behemoth in Australia. We would be in the doldrums for a decade if that hope be for us. We don’t have that luxury.

Carlton can afford to burn two top 10 picks in 2017 at the national draft in Dow and Lachie o Brien, but it’s ok for them. They can just swoop in 4 years later and grab the player they should have taken at pick 3 instead of Dow (Cerra) with pick 6 (which slid to 8) and a junk pick, 4 years later when he’s 22 and FFC have kindly done all the developing. He lands into ikon park amd is playing at AA level within 12 months. No harm done for Carlton.

We can’t do that. Hypothetically, if we had in 2019, butchered that draft and selected Dylan stephens and Fischer Mcasey instead of Serong and young - we couldn’t just come in 4 years later and get Serong in a trade to fix our stuff up.
We don’t have that luxury. Big Melbourne teams do.

Basically, we need to achieve excellence in every area to the game, to compensate for the inherent disadvantages we have as a club and then maybe we might be able to jag a flag if we are lucky.
That’s why people are frustrated when we are average to poor in areas like trading, where we need to be the best.

 

[freo_leo29]

• the cons? Where do I start. Free agency is pretty much unavailable to Fremantle. Reece Conca is probably our best FA ever. The pies brought in McStay for free last year at 26 years old. A luxury we will never ever have.

This is Danyle Pearce erasure and I won't stand for it

 

[Docker82]

This is Danyle Pearce erasure and I won't stand for it

Pearce was actually pretty good for us until his last 2-3 years.

Anyone saying recruiting him wasn't a positive is wrong.

 

[Paracleet]

WA players are as much likely to trade within Victoria as come back home these days so we don’t even get shared exclusive access to WA players anymore.

This is hyperbole. It's clearly not more likely. How many local players that we wanted to keep in the last 5 or 10 years have been traded out? 4*? How many that we made ourselves? It's just Henry and Logue. During the same period we've traded in many WA origin players. Including 3 rising star winners.

*We pushed Hogan out so I didn't count him. I did count Acres but you could make a case he doesn't count either.

As I've crapped on about in other threads the size of the WA pool and there only being two clubs is a BIG advantage for both clubs. Normally we are in West Coasts big shadow which lessens it for us. That's why them fouling their own nest to such an extent is a huge huge opportunity. It's already got us Jackson and hopefully will reap further rewards in 2024 and 2025.

 

[Dockeroo]

So about that pick 21 yeah?


It’s going to be nearer 30 on draft night. These priority picks hurt us as they take players from the open draft pool. The players from the academies were never available to us.

 

[Moo]

So about that pick 21 yeah?


It’s going to be nearer 30 on draft night. These priority picks hurt us as they take players from the open draft pool. The players from the academies were never available to us.

Yep - we're fundamentally a bit player in this year's draft.

I take solace in we're pretty balanced, won't lose any major pieces (Henry is not a Mundy loss) and we can expect growth from within the playing group.

Chapman & Darcy available in round 1 would be handy. Chapman can release Young, Darcy gives us a roaming Jackson.

 

[Alfonz]

So about that pick 21 yeah?


It’s going to be nearer 30 on draft night. These priority picks hurt us as they take players from the open draft pool. The players from the academies were never available to us.

So Laura Kane ... the ex Head of Football Operations at North Melbourne ... is in charge of giving North Melbourne a bounty. Gee, what a surprise. I'm impressed though that the AFL has managed to extend the old boys club and rampant conflicts of interest to include women now.

 

[s_wd6]

So about that pick 21 yeah?


It’s going to be nearer 30 on draft night. These priority picks hurt us as they take players from the open draft pool. The players from the academies were never available to us.

Why do you get priority picks when you’ve finished last for so long and continually rack up the highest draft picks

 

[Joao]

Draft picks as a consolation for being rubbish is such a terrible idea. Like I genuinely can't believe it passes as legit in a professional sport. It's ****ing dumb.

 

[ubiquitous226]

Lol

No one said we wanted Jackson value for Cerra we were just directly comparing his trade result with Jackson.

Jackson > Cerra

Therefore no great shock here ....
Jackson trade value > Cerra

The main issue in this debate is you & Taylor think Cerra is comparable with Jackson.

Nothing wrong with that but own it and stop trying to muddy the waters.

To sum it up you rate Cerra far higher than me and I obviously rate Jackson far higher than you.

For the record - Freo Bigfooty has become a bit of an echochamber.

I genuinely believe the focus we as supporters put on an individual trade price is overblown, you don't get any rewards from 'winning' a trade.

The big picture has to be getting deals done, improving your list and maximising your chances of getting your targets in the draft.

However I might be the one that triggered your 'comparison' between Jackson and Cerra because they were stated in the same post, but that wasn't my point.
My point is it would have been easier to take the perceived difference from expectations if it hadn't been both.
In my opinion we were a bit off in each, which adds up.

Weird echo chamber considering there's still the traditional over optimism, jaded realism and doomsayers like usual. And that's just in my head, let alone the others on Big footy.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Oh yeah baby ... now that is what I'm talkin' about!

 

[Joao]

How depressingly boring is the trade lineup this year? Henry has a legit claim to be the biggest name crossing via trade.

 

[Moo]

I genuinely believe the focus we as supporters put on an individual trade price is overblown, you don't get any rewards from 'winning' a trade.

The big picture has to be getting deals done, improving your list and maximising your chances of getting your targets in the draft.

However I might be the one that triggered your 'comparison' between Jackson and Cerra because they were stated in the same post, but that wasn't my point.
My point is it would have been easier to take the perceived difference from expectations if it hadn't been both.
In my opinion we were a bit off in each, which adds up.

Weird echo chamber considering there's still the traditional over optimism, jaded realism and doomsayers like usual. And that's just in my head, let alone the others on Big footy.

No it was Taylor's direct comparison that got the ball rolling. Plus trying to make the Cerra trade out to be a Hogan type error.

I think we agree - it's about the bigger picture.

Personally think history will say Cerra & Jackson will turn out to be pivotal moments in our clubs attempt at a flag.

 

[Moo]

How depressingly boring is the trade lineup this year? Henry has a legit claim to be the biggest name crossing via trade.

I'm just excited it's not Cox.

 

[rgauci]

How depressingly boring is the trade lineup this year? Henry has a legit claim to be the biggest name crossing via trade.

Grundy?

 

[Purple Jesus]

It’s a discussion forum, why not bemoan previous trades. I maintain, we don’t get any help anywhere, the only inherent advantages we have over any other club is good crowd numbers. WA players are as much likely to trade within Victoria as come back home these days so we don’t even get shared exclusive access to WA players anymore. No AFL hand outs, no F/S, no “no restrictions” academies, extremely hard to keep players it seems because we don’t have the off-field strength of a Carlton, WC or Collingwood.

We can’t control a lot of that, we can control what we do in trades. We have to be basically perfect to win a flag and our trading is a long way from perfect

We don’t have to be perfect but we do have to be excellent. Thankfully our drafting is elite.

We just need to stop leaking talent and allow this group to mature to the tipping point together while simultaneously hoping other teams’ peaks aren’t higher than ours at the perfect moment.

Simples!

 

[Joao]

Grundy?

3 years ago, sure. Would have been a big deal.