List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[tonygeeks]

exactly what has he done to get this sort of treatment? reading some journos headline that apparently we all take as gospel now

why do so many supporters jump to s**t on henry at the first chance?

First chance ?

You are joking right

 

[Mags98]

First chance ?

You are joking right

elaborate mate? tell me what henrys done to get you all worked up

 

[arsesmart]

ive only seen one tweet from raplhy for godsake

and exactly, its probably come from colin and yet people launch to shitting on henry?? calling him a diva or claiming hes not put in the work? its just strange, henry has done nothing to deserve this from his own supporters

Also, in these days of content frenzy I don't think we really need to ask why rumors take a bit of a life of their own, do we?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Lachie Schultz kicked 30 goals, and had 19 goal assists.

Pickett had 41 goals and 8 goal assists.

Melbourne kicked 1936 points in the regular season. Fremantle kicked 1739 points, about 10% less score. Both teams conceded similar scores.

Yes Pickett is younger, but he’s no superstar. I’d rank him below Schultz as a small forward.

Man, all the power to you for backing in the Freo guy but dat be some purple coloured goggles. I'm not sure you'd find anyone outside Freo who thinks that. If we had Pickett the last two years this board would probably regard him as highly as we regard Amiss

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I do get why Henry isnt every Freo supporters cup of tea. Primarily outside players are always first to be criticized as "soft" and there's his passion for fashion that shall we say, "traditional" Aussie guys dont like/understand. There's also the perceived high draft pick (that wasnt his fault or the clubs really) cost.

Not that I agree with the above, but I understand it, Henry is absolutely going to be the number 1 scapegoat this year

 

[Taylor]

Man, all the power to you for backing in the Freo guy but dat be some purple coloured goggles. I'm not sure you'd find anyone outside Freo who thinks that. If we had Pickett the last two years this board would probably regard him as highly as we regard Amiss

If it's 49 goal involvements for both where one is a significantly higher scoring team in a structure that surrenders the key forward mark to bring the smalls in, perhaps it's showing that Schultz is underrated/under appreciated. He certainly carried the heart of the team in the finals.

I actually think Rankine would blow Pickett out of the water if he was with Melbourne, I think he is far more creative than both Pickett and Schultz - but in a side that goes for the mark.

Small forwards are very tricky to value because they need to impact immediately, which can mean what you see is what you get - but then where does he go from there? Teams in their window tend to buy them in the draft early.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

If it's 49 goal involvements for both where one is a significantly higher scoring team in a structure that surrenders the key forward mark to bring the smalls in, perhaps it's showing that Schultz is underrated/under appreciated. He certainly carried the heart of the team in the finals.

I actually think Rankine would blow Pickett out of the water if he was with Melbourne, I think he is far more creative than both Pickett and Schultz - but in a side that goes for the mark.

Small forwards are very tricky to value because they need to impact immediately, which can mean what you see is what you get - but then where does he go from there? Teams in their window tend to buy them in the draft early.

Yeah the stats are fine but anyone watching both players will tell you who is the better player and that's not even taking into account the age difference which is massive.

You might be right with Rankine but I'd personally have Pickett on the same level because I've seen Rankine disappear a LOT more the last few years compared to Pickett - he also has an extra year on him.

This board would worship Pickett if we had drafted him

 

[tonygeeks]

elaborate mate? tell me what henrys done to get you all worked up

He’s had more excuses made for his lack of competitiveness than any other player I can remember

He seems to desperately want to be an AFL star , I like players who desperately want to beat the bloke standing next to them

 

[Square Peg]

Schultz carried the heart of the team in the finals?
I'd say there's more that more overrate him than underrate him

 

[Dockernut]

Noooo! Not Henry! He is soooo important to our structure, has leadership attributes and talent to burn, he just hasn’t realised it yet.

Definite two first rounders thanks Melbs.

 

[rgauci]

Man, all the power to you for backing in the Freo guy but dat be some purple coloured goggles. I'm not sure you'd find anyone outside Freo who thinks that. If we had Pickett the last two years this board would probably regard him as highly as we regard Amiss

I clearly don’t rate him like you. He’s significantly undersized as far as afl players go. I don’t think he gets enough of the ball for a small forward. He works predominantly inside the 50m arc and takes his opportunities.

Schultz will be one of the most sought after free agents in 2023. I think only Himmelberg is better. Kosi will have suitors, but I bet he signs mid season for decent but not eye watering money. No one is opening the cheque books for him, especially when you’ll lose draft capital. Schultz who is potentially free from a draft capital perspective will be more heavily sought after. I won’t be surprised if he gets more money than Kosi.

 

[tonygeeks]

Lachie Schultz kicked 30 goals, and had 19 goal assists.

Pickett had 41 goals and 8 goal assists.

Melbourne kicked 1936 points in the regular season. Fremantle kicked 1739 points, about 10% less score. Both teams conceded similar scores.

Yes Pickett is younger, but he’s no superstar. I’d rank him below Schultz as a small forward.

I like Kossi but let’s f***ing go shooter [emoji106]

 

[Eski3]

I clearly don’t rate him like you. He’s significantly undersized as far as afl players go. I don’t think he gets enough of the ball for a small forward. He works predominantly inside the 50m arc and takes his opportunities.

Schultz will be one of the most sought after free agents in 2023. I think only Himmelberg is better. Kosi will have suitors, but I bet he signs mid season for decent but not eye watering money. No one is opening the cheque books for him, especially when you’ll lose draft capital. Schultz who is potentially free from a draft capital perspective will be more heavily sought after. I won’t be surprised if he gets more money than Kosi.

Schultz has a trigger for his contract for 2024 and he's not listed on the list of free agents. I don't know if he's eligible as an FA if he hits his trigger (if he hasn't already, but I imagine the club would have announced it if he had)

In-demand Docker knocks back Hawks to sign new deal

Lachie Schultz signs a two-year deal to stay at Fremantle

www.afl.com.au

 

[Square Peg]

Schultz has a trigger for his contract for 2024 and he's not listed on the list of free agents. I don't know if he's eligible as an FA if he hits his trigger (if he hasn't already, but I imagine the club would have announced it if he had)

In-demand Docker knocks back Hawks to sign new deal

Lachie Schultz signs a two-year deal to stay at Fremantle

www.afl.com.au

He's a free agent beause we delisted him previoiusly

 

[Eski3]

He's a free agent beause we delisted him previoiusly

But if he hits his trigger he may no longer be an FA as he is no longer out of contract

 

[Square Peg]

But if he hits his trigger he may no longer be an FA as he is no longer out of contract

Yes if he signs a contract he's not a FA. I believe the agreement with the AFLPA is if a club delists you and re-rookies you, you're a free agent for life with every new contract expiry. Tyson Stengle is a free agent for life -- now there's a small forward better than Schultz and Kosi

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I clearly don’t rate him like you. He’s significantly undersized as far as afl players go. I don’t think he gets enough of the ball for a small forward. He works predominantly inside the 50m arc and takes his opportunities.

Schultz will be one of the most sought after free agents in 2023. I think only Himmelberg is better. Kosi will have suitors, but I bet he signs mid season for decent but not eye watering money. No one is opening the cheque books for him, especially when you’ll lose draft capital. Schultz who is potentially free from a draft capital perspective will be more heavily sought after. I won’t be surprised if he gets more money than Kosi.

I think a Schultz type of small forward really isnt that hard to find, in fact, I bet if we lose Schultz, Emmett will be able to replace him next year. Maybe the FA thing boosts his contract value but if a club offers him more than 500k, we would be negligent to match it (I would think 400k is closer to his actual value personally), I think Kozi will get 600k offers comfortably.

 

[arsesmart]

He’s had more excuses made for his lack of competitiveness than any other player I can remember

He seems to desperately want to be an AFL star , I like players who desperately want to beat the bloke standing next to them

"Excuses" is not really a thing. They're either factors impacting or they're not, which can be logically made a case for either way along with whatever evidence there might be.

 

[theGav56]

Could you really? I think that's more perception than reality. He's probably got a bit of confidence in his own abilities, but you kinda want that in an AFL player.

What you do tend to hear from the club is that he's as much about others as himself eg Bob Murphy:

Referring to his character, Murphy praised the young Docker's connection to his teammates and those around him.​

​

“There’s just something incredibly warm and charismatic about him,” he said.​

​

“He’s one that’s won me over pretty quick.”​

​

However, it’s not just off the field where Murphy has been impressed with the budding forward, tipping his work-ethic and diligence will pay off on-field.​

​

“He trains hard, and he loves his club,” Murphy added.​

Surely your not comparing Bob Murphy's opinion to the ever reliable eye test?

 

[arsesmart]

I think a Schultz type of small forward really isnt that hard to find, in fact, I bet if we lose Schultz, Emmett will be able to replace him next year. Maybe the FA thing boosts his contract value but if a club offers him more than 500k, we would be negligent to match it (I would think 400k is closer to his actual value personally), I think Kozi will get 600k offers comfortably.

Schultz definitely flies under the radar a bit though. Melbourne media can pump up the tyres more of those under their noses too, which gives those players an extra glow. Pickett is super dynamic and has more weapons than Shooter, but Schultz is very reliable.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Schultz definitely flies under the radar a bit though. Melbourne media can pump up the tyres more of those under their noses to, which gives those players an extra glow. Pickett is super dynamic and has more weapons than Shooter, but Schultz is very reliable.

Yep, Schultz is a handy AFL player and possibly not given his dues but whenever someone's best attribute is "work rate" they are easier to replace and therefore, not as valuable. Pickett might not yet have his reliability or work quite as hard as Schultz yet but having weapons, especially at his age, makes him the better player both now and definitely in the future.

Melbourne media or not, this is not even a discussion anywhere but on the Freo board.

 

[Taylor]

Yeah the stats are fine but anyone watching both players will tell you who is the better player and that's not even taking into account the age difference which is massive.

You might be right with Rankine but I'd personally have Pickett on the same level because I've seen Rankine disappear a LOT more the last few years compared to Pickett - he also has an extra year on him.

This board would worship Pickett if we had drafted him

I agree that watching the game will show you who is the better player, but with the caveat that it's within that structure and system.

I think Pickett is more agile and has more burst speed, but I think Schultz would look near as effective in their structure. The difference between being a regular AFL player and an All Australian small forward is all about the team around you when you don't have a run through the middle.

If your key forward isn't trying to mark the ball, or isn't capable of doing it so the forward structure sets up for a crumb, the delivery from the midfield sets up for a crumb then you're going to look better.

I think Rankine would create more shots in a split second than either Pickett or Schultz but both the latter have played in superior sides the last couple of years.

On pure talent I'd rank them: Rankine, Pickett, Schultz
On athletic ability: Pickett, Rankine, Schultz
On work rate: Schultz, Pickett, Rankine

The question is: Does Pickett offer more to us as a team than Schultz + a pick or two around #16. Is our team such high quality elsewhere that upgrading that position with that capital is value.. or "moneyball" as some might say.

It's obviously more complicated than Tabs + 1st round pick = Travis Cloke 2010.

Based on total impact to the team, even with Melbourne outscoring us, Schultz and Pickett both contributed to 49 goals for their sides. Yes, Pickett is younger, but I'd argue that a first round small forward has to hit their high performance almost immediately to justify that investment, especially if they aren't projecting as a midfield option - which can mean they hit their peak and remain where they are without continuing that surge in potential.

Should that be the case and Pickett is as good as Pickett will ever be, he is an elite small forward and has the same global impact to the team as Lachie Schultz did for us in a lower scoring side.

... and this is with me suggesting that Schultz should consider his position in the side vulnerable because small forward is where clubs like to try the young new player with some explosive speed or creativity but not the tank for the middle yet.

 

[arsesmart]

Yep, Schultz is a handy AFL player and possibly not given his dues but whenever someone's best attribute is "work rate" they are easier to replace and therefore, not as valuable. Pickett might not yet have his reliability or work quite as hard as Schultz yet but having weapons, especially at his age, makes him the better player both now and definitely in the future.

Melbourne media or not, this is not even a discussion anywhere but on the Freo board.

Fair to say though the gap between them, based on most recent performance isn't so huge. I'd also say "more likely", rather than "definitely", in the future. Seen that go sideways too many times.

 

[arsesmart]

I agree that watching the game will show you who is the better player, but with the caveat that it's within that structure and system.

I think Pickett is more agile and has more burst speed, but I think Schultz would look near as effective in their structure. The difference between being a regular AFL player and an All Australian small forward is all about the team around you when you don't have a run through the middle.

If your key forward isn't trying to mark the ball, or isn't capable of doing it so the forward structure sets up for a crumb, the delivery from the midfield sets up for a crumb then you're going to look better.

I think Rankine would create more shots in a split second than either Pickett or Schultz but both the latter have played in superior sides the last couple of years.

On pure talent I'd rank them: Rankine, Pickett, Schultz
On athletic ability: Pickett, Rankine, Schultz
On work rate: Schultz, Pickett, Rankine

The question is: Does Pickett offer more to us as a team than Schultz + a pick or two around #16. Is our team such high quality elsewhere that upgrading that position with that capital is value.. or "moneyball" as some might say.

It's obviously more complicated than Tabs + 1st round pick = Travis Cloke 2010.

Based on total impact to the team, even with Melbourne outscoring us, Schultz and Pickett both contributed to 49 goals for their sides. Yes, Pickett is younger, but I'd argue that a first round small forward has to hit their high performance almost immediately to justify that investment, especially if they aren't projecting as a midfield option - which can mean they hit their peak and remain where they are without continuing that surge in potential.

Should that be the case and Pickett is as good as Pickett will ever be, he is an elite small forward and has the same global impact to the team as Lachie Schultz did for us in a lower scoring side.

... and this is with me suggesting that Schultz should consider his position in the side vulnerable because small forward is where clubs like to try the young new player with some explosive speed or creativity but not the tank for the middle yet.

There's plenty of scope for Pickett to improve though. Even just with consistency. But building a bigger tank is something that often comes only with seasoning.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I agree that watching the game will show you who is the better player, but with the caveat that it's within that structure and system.

I think Pickett is more agile and has more burst speed, but I think Schultz would look near as effective in their structure. The difference between being a regular AFL player and an All Australian small forward is all about the team around you when you don't have a run through the middle.

If your key forward isn't trying to mark the ball, or isn't capable of doing it so the forward structure sets up for a crumb, the delivery from the midfield sets up for a crumb then you're going to look better.

I think Rankine would create more shots in a split second than either Pickett or Schultz but both the latter have played in superior sides the last couple of years.

On pure talent I'd rank them: Rankine, Pickett, Schultz
On athletic ability: Pickett, Rankine, Schultz
On work rate: Schultz, Pickett, Rankine

The question is: Does Pickett offer more to us as a team than Schultz + a pick or two around #16. Is our team such high quality elsewhere that upgrading that position with that capital is value.. or "moneyball" as some might say.

It's obviously more complicated than Tabs + 1st round pick = Travis Cloke 2010.

Based on total impact to the team, even with Melbourne outscoring us, Schultz and Pickett both contributed to 49 goals for their sides. Yes, Pickett is younger, but I'd argue that a first round small forward has to hit their high performance almost immediately to justify that investment, especially if they aren't projecting as a midfield option - which can mean they hit their peak and remain where they are without continuing that surge in potential.

Should that be the case and Pickett is as good as Pickett will ever be, he is an elite small forward and has the same global impact to the team as Lachie Schultz did for us in a lower scoring side.

... and this is with me suggesting that Schultz should consider his position in the side vulnerable because small forward is where clubs like to try the young new player with some explosive speed or creativity but not the tank for the middle yet.

I agree with your rankings and yes, I think the cost is worth it because forwards with goal scoring nous are our number 1 deficiency as a team and they can be the hardest to find (at least for Freo they always have been). I also really dont think Shultz could impact in Melbournes structure as well as ours because his role would be close to Spargo then Pickett. Pickett comes with the added benefit of still being a good defensive player as well.

I also think small forwards can make an impact earlier than other positions BUT they also still get better in their prime ages, just like everybody else. See Cameron / Betts / Papley etc. If we all think Treacy is definitely going to be AFL quality and good partner for Amiss then I maintain Pickett would be the best pick-up we can make in the foreseeable future.