List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[King Huskii]

Captain Hindsight says it was always going to be a terrible move, but the Kings always had a weird go-home vibe to them (even if Ben has shrugged it) and there would have been nothing more dockery than training up a talented KPF only to lose him to Carlton.

Or wasting draft picks and a heap of money for a guy who was injured and off chops the entire time

At the very least we could have got something for King

 

[Mags98]

Or wasting draft picks and a heap of money for a guy who was injured and off chops tue entire time

At the very least we could have got something for King

imagine the public reaction if we didnt bring in a want away star West Australian key forward after all these year? i think the club had a lot of pressure on it to make that move happen tbh

 

[tonygeeks]

Freo supporters obsession with Naughton

We passed on him just like most other clubs.

He's not going to play for Freo. We have Amiss. Both are talented.

I’ve been obsessed with him because I was living around the corner from Rushton park the year he came through and was watching a lot of peel games

He calibrated my perception of athleticism for a tall

Utter pig headed stupidity the way we handled that situation that caused him to get offside with Freo and that is legit from the horses mouth from someone in the team in those days

 

[SupermanCapes]

imagine the public reaction if we didnt bring in a want away star West Australian key forward after all these year? i think the club had a lot of pressure on it to make that move happen tbh

Yeh, plus Jesse had runs on the board as a 50 goals a season forward which is exactly what we wanted (and still want haha). We went through a period of backing in our culture to bring talented footballers with behavioural concerns around, which I didn't hate at the time but was ultimately a total failure. Our new approach of recruiting players who are already in a good space has obviously paid dividends but these threads would have completely melted if we hadn't traded in Hogan, McCarthy etc.

 

[King Huskii]

I’ve been obsessed with him because I was living around the corner from Rushton park the year he came through and was watching a lot of peel games

He calibrated my perception of athleticism for a tall

Utter pig headed stupidity the way we handled that situation that caused him to get offside with Freo and that is legit from the horses mouth from someone in the team in those days

And how did we handle that situation?

I also watched most Peel hone games plus a few away games that season and wanted him. I was unsure of Jim being a key forward but certain he'd be a gun key back. His efforts against Swans during a storm was exceptional in a losing side at Basendeen Oval.

 

[FreoRicci]

Let's talk about drafting Ben King instead of trading for Jesse Hogan...

Lose-lose.
King would almost certainly have gone home. Has that vibe. Hogan stayed 4 years? King probably would’ve gone in that same time too.

 

[Taylor]

Jesse Hogan

23

Jesse Hogan

Age

30

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.0

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

0.0

1star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

had a trigger to extend his deal from the $700,000 he was paid into a million a year. That's why the club gave him away for nothing.

The club went and attempted to resolve the lack of forward line issue in one off season bringing in two mature, established tall options. Lobb worked out. We spent over 10% of our salary cap trying to fix that forward issue.

 

[Waterhouzin]

imagine the public reaction if we didnt bring in a want away star West Australian key forward after all these year? i think the club had a lot of pressure on it to make that move happen tbh

Yeah I’ve thought the same since day one. Sure, turns out he was a bust but the “imagine what coulda been!” cries would have been overpowering if we hadn’t had a crack.
No regrets from my point of view, the club did what they could, appears it was the individual who didn’t fulfil his end of the bargain.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[King Huskii]

Jesse Hogan had a trigger to extend his deal from the $700,000 he was paid into a million a year. That's why the club gave him away for nothing.

The club went and attempted to resolve the lack of forward line issue in one off season bringing in two mature, established tall options. Lobb worked out. We spent over 10% of our salary cap trying to fix that forward issue.

And it ultimately failed

 

[pK75]

Yeah I’ve thought the same since day one. Sure, turns out he was a bust but the “imagine what coulda been!” cries would have been overpowering if we hadn’t had a crack.
No regrets from my point of view, the club did what they could, appears it was the individual who didn’t fulfil his end of the bargain.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I’m still convinced that Bell wasn’t bluffing when he walked away from the trade table after they’d done the “due diligence” but was over ruled by Risich (who was acting list manager as well as CEO that trade period) as he along with Ross knew their jobs were on the line if the club didn’t perform the following year.
I think it’s also why Bell was willing to let Hogan go for peanuts as an “I told you so, now I have to clean up your mess” moment in 2020.

 

[Sturty2Hurty]

Lose-lose.
King would almost certainly have gone home. Has that vibe. Hogan stayed 4 years? King probably would’ve gone in that same time too.

Disagree, it’s not really a zero-sum game. Imagine if we had Ben King right now and he requested a trade. We’d be asking two first rounders. Look at the result of the Weller and Cerra deals - similar situations of young players wanting out.

 

[Sturty2Hurty]

Never understood why we didn’t just wait a year for Hogan to be out of contract and over the meniscus issue.

 

[One_Wing]

Never understood why we didn’t just wait a year for Hogan to be out of contract and over the meniscus issue.

Lyon and Rosich needed to sell hope

 

[tonygeeks]

And how did we handle that situation?

I also watched most Peel hone games plus a few away games that season and wanted him. I was unsure of Jim being a key forward but certain he'd be a gun key back. His efforts against Swans during a storm was exceptional in a losing side at Basendeen Oval.

Leaving him out of the finals after playing most of the year was one thing but the reason we gave him was we didn’t trust his kicking but then replaced him with one of the worst kicks to even play AFL in Dawson who was finished as an AFL player and it was all just good old boy stuff from Lyon

Shepard apparently wanted Naughton in instead of Dawson but was overruled by Freo

That was what I got told anyways in the only bit of ITK news I’ve ever had

 

[King Huskii]

Leaving him out of the finals after playing most of the year was one thing but the reason we gave him was we didn’t trust his kicking but then replaced him with one of the worst kicks to even play AFL in Dawson who was finished as an AFL player and it was all just good old boy stuff from Lyon

Shepard apparently wanted Naughton in instead of Dawson but was overruled by Freo

That was what I got told anyways in the only bit of ITK news I’ve ever had

Yeah sounds likely

I'm sure a person could see past that and into the future. His kicking isn't his strength. His marking is all class including judging the flight of the ball.

 

[ubiquitous226]

I’m still convinced that Bell wasn’t bluffing when he walked away from the trade table after they’d done the “due diligence” but was over ruled by Risich (who was acting list manager as well as CEO that trade period) as he along with Ross knew their jobs were on the line if the club didn’t perform the following year.
I think it’s also why Bell was willing to let Hogan go for peanuts as an “I told you so, now I have to clean up your mess” moment in 2020.

Out of curiosity what do you base that on?

Most of the stuff from the time has a bit of flavour of Bell can do no wrong and Rosich is the devil with not a lot of actual evidence.

I mean if it's the vibe you get great, but I don't see a lot.

 

[Walkingwounded]

Lyon and Rosich needed to sell hope

No Hope?

 

[Schauermann]

Captain Hindsight says it was always going to be a terrible move, but the Kings always had a weird go-home vibe to them (even if Ben has shrugged it) and there would have been nothing more dockery than training up a talented KPF only to lose him to Carlton.

Lose-lose.
King would almost certainly have gone home. Has that vibe. Hogan stayed 4 years? King probably would’ve gone in that same time too.

Probably. But he played more games and kicked more goals since. And would have been worse more on the trade table...

And like I wrote somewhere else here: We would have pretty much the best young list atm when he had stayed.

But hindisght obviously. Probably every team has blunders like this. Especially with draft picks being kind of a lottery...

 

[Superkoops]

Out of curiosity what do you base that on?

Most of the stuff from the time has a bit of flavour of Bell can do no wrong and Rosich is the devil with not a lot of actual evidence.

I mean if it's the vibe you get great, but I don't see a lot.

Bell had been present 5mins so honestly he can’t cop too much of the blame but I firmly believe it was a collective decision incl. Board, Rosco and Fyfe was in some of the presentations.

I think there was an element of bluff but I also believe Melbourne were being unreasonable with their trade requests - two top ten picks etc. we folded a little after being convinced by Hogan in the second week of trade period that Freo was the place for him.

See Melbourne only needed pick 6 to get their trade done with GCS. Yet we gave up pick 6 and a 2nd rounder.

The mistakes were clearly

• not pulling out after saying we were
• folding on the trade deal and giving up a second round pick along with 6

The fact that we traded out Hogan for a third rounder was due more to the fact that GWS took on his big remaining salary in full. Can’t have both ways. Look at what Gold Coast did to get a salary dump. Essentially give away top 10 pick (Bowes) and top 20 pick (Brodie).

 

[arsesmart]

Probably. But he played more games and kicked more goals since. And would have been worse more on the trade table...

And like I wrote somewhere else here: We would have pretty much the best young list atm when he had stayed.

But hindisght obviously. Probably every team has blunders like this. Especially with draft picks being kind of a lottery...

Not a lottery, but a risk-futures market.

There was risk in both, as it turns out, but Hogan had more than reasonable history achieving at the level, while Ben King's history was predominantly as a back (of course sprinkled with goals at school level and some at the u18s).

 

[Taylor]

Hogan was an executive call to keep the members on side after years of poor results and a coach lamenting a lack of tall forwards. Hogan went straight from coming to Perth onto the marketing material for that reason. He was the great hope, the saviour. I warned about the issues with his foot, didn't matter. The club had $700,000 a year to spend on him and got better value out of selling the hope.

Having him off the squad before his trigger bumping him up to a million a year was worth giving away the pick.

 

[arsesmart]

Bell had been present 5mins so honestly he can’t cop too much of the blame but I firmly believe it was a collective decision incl. Board, Rosco and Fyfe was in some of the presentations.

I think there was an element of bluff but I also believe Melbourne were being unreasonable with their trade requests - two top ten picks etc. we folded a little after being convinced by Hogan in the second week of trade period that Freo was the place for him.

See Melbourne only needed pick 6 to get their trade done with GCS. Yet we gave up pick 6 and a 2nd rounder.

The mistakes were clearly

• not pulling out after saying we were
• folding on the trade deal and giving up a second round pick along with 6

The fact that we traded out Hogan for a third rounder was due more to the fact that GWS took on his big remaining salary in full. Can’t have both ways. Look at what Gold Coast did to get a salary dump. Essentially give away top 10 pick (Bowes) and top 20 pick (Brodie).

I reckon it was mostly the usual trade shenanigans. I think the risk of the trade ever folding was only ever on the more remote side of things. Evidenced by them saying it was off on the Friday (in a very particularly worded statement), but then spending the weekend reassuring Hogan.

 

[Arcassius]

Hogan was an executive call to keep the members on side after years of poor results and a coach lamenting a lack of tall forwards. Hogan went straight from coming to Perth onto the marketing material for that reason. He was the great hope, the saviour. I warned about the issues with his foot, didn't matter. The club had $700,000 a year to spend on him and got better value out of selling the hope.

Having him off the squad before his trigger bumping him up to a million a year was worth giving away the pick.

Obviously you'd didn't tell the right people

 

[pK75]

Out of curiosity what do you base that on?

Most of the stuff from the time has a bit of flavour of Bell can do no wrong and Rosich is the devil with not a lot of actual evidence.

I mean if it's the vibe you get great, but I don't see a lot.

It’s mainly a vibe thing, but at the time Bell walked away from the table, here in Melbourne all the whispers were that we’d discovered just how bad Hogan’s partying was, there were also rumours that Melb were desperate to get rid of him and were seriously trying to work out how to land May without our pick 6 coming in as they thought they’d have to accept a lot less now that we knew as well.
But I don’t have any ITK people at freo so if we had spent all weekend reassuring him, perhaps it was all bluff and bluster.

 

[Purple Jesus]

I'd forgotten that was how they got May.

So we basically gifted them a flag while simultaneously costing ourselves one.

Noiiiiiiiice.

Get ****ed Rosich.