Training 2023 Mens Preseason Thread

[andleanback]

Forward half pressure is much better when you've got players available who can run fast enough to apply it

Also helps when you aren’t replying on 1 individual to do a lot of the leg work. Working in a team of 3 to pressure is much more effective.

 

[owen87]

Also helps when you aren’t replying on 1 individual to do a lot of the leg work. Working in a team of 3 to pressure is much more effective.

Matt Guelfi likes this

 

[MiguelM]

Forward half pressure is much better when you've got players available who can run fast enough to apply it

Missing Tippa killed us & Rutten

 

[Lore]

Missing Tippa killed us & Rutten

& snelling & smith

 

[Ati Tude]

& snelling & smith

er, um, Smith?

 

[yodellinhank]

And Kommer

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Missing Tippa killed us & Rutten

Missing best 22 players obviously won't help any coach. But Rutten didn't exactly do himself any favours - starting with our mismanaged preseason.

 

[owen87]

er, um, Smith?

Smith was actually a fantastic pressure player before his knee broke down

 

[andleanback]

Smith was actually a fantastic pressure player before his knee broke down

Was broken down well before rutten took over is kinda the point

 

[Ati Tude]

Smith was actually a fantastic pressure player before his knee broke down

Which was a long time ago. He came to us with knee issues, had a great first year when he was a tackling machine and declined thereafter. And he was so selfish and couldn't kick 40 metres (i take it his knee contributed to this).

 

[Lore]

“Defence is our biggest focus, watched a bit of Freo footage yesterday. Players thought we were outworked and the coaches thought so too last year, but looking at the vision we weren’t set up right defensively, ran a lot more because we couldn’t defend. Going inside 50 helps you defend, they…”

Listening to the full podcast now for context, so far first half hour and the Langford interview only just finished…

First five minutes is just about the hosts and being at media day etc. what’s happening where they are in the hangar watching players, photographers, and content and media people around them. They’re gonna try and get Dodoro as a guest one day.

Kyle Langford (according to himself) would ideally be 60% midfield and 40% forward — because he usually gets a favourable match up with the third defender when he’s up there with Wright Jones and Stringer taking the bigger defenders. He and the coaches see versatility as his greatest strength.

Doesn’t know his stats (Scooter said he’s 78% accurate in front of goal) but he was lucky enough to join in with some mentoring when Lloydy was doing with Joey a few years back. Langford has a really simple routine and practice makes perfect. Doesn’t matter if you’re five minutes into the first quarter or five minutes into the last, same routine, blocks out the noise, etc.

Scott is a bit different from previous coaches. Langford has technically had 5 coaches in 9 years…

It’s going to be a bit of freedom when you’re playing offence, players playing in positions that utilise their strengths, a bit like U18s. Offence from defence. They want to play front half footy. Blahdiblah systems etc.

Langford is still adjusting from surgery, that side of his body has had some niggles while it tries to get up to speed. He’s not 100% yet, will be in a couple of weeks.

Tsatas getting talked up for round 1 until his knee injury. Hayes impressive but has a lot of development in his body still, throws his body at the ball really impressive. Pace and X factor up forward from Alwyn, defenders don’t really know where he is. Alwyn great for chase and pressure, Scott emphasising it and Alwyn leading the way (impressive for a first year).

Walla mentoring the young Indigenous talent, there’s no allocated mentoring program but they generally work really closely with the kids coming into their line groups and that happens organically coz helping them makes all of them play better and that’s where the growth comes from.

Langford leadership aspirations: yeah definitely. Always been a leader of some sorts but it’s not necessarily about the title. Heppell, Merrett, McGrath. Wright, Rids, Redders, Shiel all starting to grow. Regardless of who is captain for the next 4-5 years he feels that there will be really good support being him, whether that’s Langford or those other boys he mentioned.

Natural evolution of a player once you get some games under your belt (50-100 games) you start to feel like it’s time to help those around you and “come a bit more out of yourself”. Players haven’t really had a chat about who their leaders are but Scott is still sussing everyone out and then over the next month they’ll probably look at it more explicitly.

“Okay we’ve been here for a while now we want to win a premiership, let’s do it together because we can’t do it alone”

Scott more coaching the line coaches, Gia and Cara (and line coaches generally) are coaching the players. He is watching, taking note of what players are doing, watching vision, having conversations with individual players and what their strengths are, what they bring to the team.

Gia is his line coach, fantastic, won an internal award last year for leadership, has some external awards as well. Has aspirations to be a senior coach one day, conveys Brad’s message really clearly to the players and players can express their feelings to him and no judgements.

Biggest influence on Langers’ career: His dad especially as a junior. His dad played a bit of footy, always helping coach his teams and throwing him around into different positions. Good players can’t just play midfield and wrack it up. Also had a bit of private mentoring with Hird in the year Hird was off. At the club coaches have 20-25 players they’re worrying about so good to have someone who can give you some honest feedback.

Langers’ bucket list: SuperBowl & Golf Masters

Phone is dead so I’ll come back for he Guelfi interview ha

Guelfi interview

Had been asking Truck to play forward a year before he actually started playing there. When Walla went down with a few injuries the opportunity came up. In the WAFL he was a forward/mid and never really felt comfortable down back.

Applying pressure is definitely something the forward group is working on. Brad's thing for the whole team is "if you can't chase you can't play" applies to Drapes and 2MP as well. As forwards they have pace in Alwyn and Tony (Walla). As forwards they can all play footy and they can all kick goals, that's the easy bit, so they focus a lot on defence and for him in particular he finds a lot of his goals come off defence anyway.

A lot of the improvement that Brad sees is based around defence. Defence is our biggest focus, watched a bit of Freo footage yesterday. Players thought we were outworked and the coaches thought so too last year, but looking at the vision we weren’t set up right defensively, ran a lot more because we couldn’t defend. Being predictable as well going inside 50 helps you defend as well. So it marries up, getting the ball inside 50, being predictable, setting up behind defence.

Calf is coming along nicely, bit annoying this time of year but just going to make sure they're cautious and that it's right for round 1.

Daveys Munkara Walla they're quick. Not over 100m but they're burst off the mark and their steps. Alwyn has caught Guelfi a few times at training with the little step. Going to be exciting playing with them. If they're kicking goals that takes the pressure off him and he can just do his thing, tackle pressure, defence.

The middle-age group, Darce, Andy, Redders, Guelfi, Drapes, the leadership has come a long way and Guelfi's really enjoying it this year. Being one of the leaders for the forward group this year along with 2MP and Stringer really enjoyed trying to help and give advice to Alwyn and Munny that's come in (Munkara nickname). He's more of an action leader, some boys use their words. All have different strengths in leadership and all come together and hopefully can bring it out on game day more this year.

He's really enjoyed Alwyn especially working closely with him and it helps him as well, when he's teaching Alwyn it helps remind him of things he needs to do in his game and also learning things off Alwyn as well. His talent is unbelievable.

Will play mainly up forward, used to be more thrown around wherever but not doing that so much anymore. If something happens in a game he can still go up the ground and play a role but his focus is leading the pressure up forward this year.

Gia runs a lot of training and Brad steps in where he needs. Like an overseer, does a lot behind the scenes and when we need something comes in and clear messages, everyone understands what he's saying and on the same page.

Which store would you like to max out your credit card in? Nike (starts listing sponsors hahaah "can I have a free aircon?")

Favourite drink? Vodka soda, it's good for the skin folds. Also getting into white wine, used to be a beer guy. St Tropez was good.

BOG for the off-season? Himself... other blokes have partners so he had to carry the fun

Favourite movie: Leo DiCaprio

Favourite carb: Pizza, Peri-Peri

 

[owen87]

middle-age group

 

[mike14]

Guelfi interview

Favourite movie: Leo DiCaprio

It's entirely possible Guelfi doesn't quite understand what a movie is...

 

[Lore]

Which was a long time ago. He came to us with knee issues, had a great first year when he was a tackling machine and declined thereafter. And he was so selfish and couldn't kick 40 metres (i take it his knee contributed to this).

In 2018 he was 1st for season tackles and won the Crichton.
In 2019 he was 1st for tackles in 4 games and top 5 in 2 others. He only played 7 games total due to injury.
In 2020 he was 3rd for season tackles after Snelling and McGrath.
In 2021 he was 4th for season tackles after Merrett, Snelling and Parish.
In 2022 he was 1st for tackles in 2 of the 5 games he played, despite playing injured. He was probably the sub or subbed off in some of them, but I can't tell from the info I'm looking at.

He was certainly not up to his 2018 standard setting the world on fire after doing his knee, but I don't think you can say he didn't contribute significantly to our forward pressure even while injured.

In all the stats listed above, Walla never once finished above him on the tackle count unless Smith missed more than half the season with injury. So if Walla counts, I don't see why Smith shouldn't.

 

[Lore]

It's entirely possible Guelfi doesn't quite understand what a movie is...

Or I just didn't type it out properly because I was rushing I think the actual answer was "anything with Leonardo DiCaprio" Scooter "oh year great choice" waffles for 20 seconds about nothing in particular

 

[Ati Tude]

In 2018 he was 1st for season tackles and won the Crichton.
In 2019 he was 1st for tackles in 4 games and top 5 in 2 others. He only played 7 games total due to injury.
In 2020 he was 3rd for season tackles after Snelling and McGrath.
In 2021 he was 4th for season tackles after Merrett, Snelling and Parish.
In 2022 he was 1st for tackles in 2 of the 5 games he played, despite playing injured. He was probably the sub or subbed off in some of them, but I can't tell from the info I'm looking at.

He was certainly not up to his 2018 standard setting the world on fire after doing his knee, but I don't think you can say he didn't contribute significantly to our forward pressure even while injured.

In all the stats listed above, Walla never once finished above him on the tackle count unless Smith missed more than half the season with injury. So if Walla counts, I don't see why Smith shouldn't.

Are you sure those stats arent him being tackled...

 

[boncer34]

In 2018 he was 1st for season tackles and won the Crichton.
In 2019 he was 1st for tackles in 4 games and top 5 in 2 others. He only played 7 games total due to injury.
In 2020 he was 3rd for season tackles after Snelling and McGrath.
In 2021 he was 4th for season tackles after Merrett, Snelling and Parish.
In 2022 he was 1st for tackles in 2 of the 5 games he played, despite playing injured. He was probably the sub or subbed off in some of them, but I can't tell from the info I'm looking at.

He was certainly not up to his 2018 standard setting the world on fire after doing his knee, but I don't think you can say he didn't contribute significantly to our forward pressure even while injured.

In all the stats listed above, Walla never once finished above him on the tackle count unless Smith missed more than half the season with injury. So if Walla counts, I don't see why Smith shouldn't.

You've just made an excellent case on why stats don't tell the whole story.

 

[andleanback]

In 2018 he was 1st for season tackles and won the Crichton.
In 2019 he was 1st for tackles in 4 games and top 5 in 2 others. He only played 7 games total due to injury.
In 2020 he was 3rd for season tackles after Snelling and McGrath.
In 2021 he was 4th for season tackles after Merrett, Snelling and Parish.
In 2022 he was 1st for tackles in 2 of the 5 games he played, despite playing injured. He was probably the sub or subbed off in some of them, but I can't tell from the info I'm looking at.

He was certainly not up to his 2018 standard setting the world on fire after doing his knee, but I don't think you can say he didn't contribute significantly to our forward pressure even while injured.

In all the stats listed above, Walla never once finished above him on the tackle count unless Smith missed more than half the season with injury. So if Walla counts, I don't see why Smith shouldn't.

Walla might not have had the tackle count, but he had the power of perceived pressure. Smith was moving around at a snails pace and getting a lot of his tackles at the contest and not through forward run and pressure.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

 

[Keystone agony]

Id be interested which midfield won

2MP impressive

 

[Ati Tude]

Here is a write up from Blitz:


Brief Report

Backman

Usual 6 played together against the weaker forward line. All worked well together Rids controlled the air, Lav match up on Jones, pretty good contest, maybe Jones slightly won. McGrath kicking was much better today.

Mass vs Hind battle for the 7th defender spot is very close. Both played on the Red team. Both used their individual attribute well. Will come down to practice match form.

Midfield

Merrett, Shiel and Parish just dominated for the black team. Probably all had 30 plus and no backwards handballs. Centre clearances were their speciality.

Setterfield and Perkins were good still for the red team but the other 3 were on another level.

Caldwell played wing with non contact hat on, not his go.

Durham, Martin, Heps and Langford rotated through the wings. Durham, Martin were the better of the 2. Heps and Langford just solid.

Ruck

Draper went up against Bryan and Phillips. Thought Bryan was sooo much better today, won his fair share of hit outs and was good around the ground. A much better performance. Draper took some big clunks but his kicking in the wind wasn’t great

Forwards

Wright was dominate, matched up on Baldwin I think out of necessity as there wasn’t many other key back options (injured).

Stringer, Weideman, Snelling. Tex and Davey quiet.

Menzie kicked a few and was just clever around the goals, certainly putting his hand up for Rd1

Walla, best I’ve seen him move since mid 2021. Involved in chase down tackles and kicked 3 I think. Can he run out 4 qtrs is the only question mark

Jones best for the Red team, I would say he kicked 3 or 4 and took once great marks on the lead.

Voss was solid without staring. Hopefully his knee is okay but looked in a bit of pain after the game

Didn’t play

Tsatas, Hobbs, Cox, Stewart, Reid, Guelfi, J.Davey, Montomerie, McBride and Munkara

 

[Keystone agony]

I love seeing HJ on the '2nd side' bit of a rocket and maybe more out of him missing so much of preseason training again

But then to hear he performed really well in what wouldve been a much tougher ask being a forward with less midfield and up against best defenders is a great sign.

Depth cant be underestimated. Alot see it as important with injuries during the year but the extra competition for spots not only through the year bit also preseason is vital. This could be a case of where a Weideman recruit is important. HJ has ability and never really had a good run so if all the stars align he might just feel the need to step it up to secure a spot.

Still not sold we will go 3 genuine small fwds of Tippa, Davey, Menzie, Guelf. Not against it but Hobbs was injured and he clearly put in a 2nd quality midfield against the top midfield. Not against it at all, every side does it and probably for good reason outside of maybe the dogs which we seem most similar to. Just some big decisions for a new coach to pick guys like Davey/Menzie over an extra mid or 2 like Perkins/Setters/Hobbs

 

[Keystone agony]

More than just 1 impressed with Bryan in the intraclub it seems

Considering a bit of lack luster preseason to be able to perform this early against a Draper who seems to not have missed a beat is impressive

Always seen it and yeh wont surprise me if he goes past Draper, it will be hard to leave out the character of Draper

Would be nice if one can develop enough forward ability then sub out one in the 3rd for a runner

 

[andleanback]

I love seeing HJ on the '2nd side' bit of a rocket and maybe more out of him missing so much of preseason training again

But then to hear he performed really well in what wouldve been a much tougher ask being a forward with less midfield and up against best defenders is a great sign.

Depth cant be underestimated. Alot see it as important with injuries during the year but the extra competition for spots not only through the year bit also preseason is vital. This could be a case of where a Weideman recruit is important. HJ has ability and never really had a good run so if all the stars align he might just feel the need to step it up to secure a spot.

Still not sold we will go 3 genuine small fwds of Tippa, Davey, Menzie, Guelf. Not against it but Hobbs was injured and he clearly put in a 2nd quality midfield against the top midfield. Not against it at all, every side does it and probably for good reason outside of maybe the dogs which we seem most similar to. Just some big decisions for a new coach to pick guys like Davey/Menzie over an extra mid or 2 like Perkins/Setters/Hobbs

Wouldn’t say it’s a rocket. Gave him a good opportunity to be the key forward of that side and get the best leading pattern opportunities. Perkins etc played for the 2nd side aswell.

 

[Saint]

You've just made an excellent case on why stats don't tell the whole story.

Yep, sometimes lots of tackles just means you're second to the ball too much!