Autopsy 2023 Rd 11 It's Groundhog Day ... again

[Blue1980]

We have won one game when tailing at 3/4 time since Voss came in and that was his first game.

I don’t see us looking as muscular or fit as other teams and I wonder if the fitness is because we play such a boring slow game plan.

Training during the season wouldn’t be about gaining fitness, so if you aren’t gut running like the Pies do every week I think you fall behind as the season goes on.

I have a theory and I’m convinced it’s going to come out at some point re our fitness.

I remember it was said late last year a review we going into our fitness department, and I think because of that we have gone too softly softly with training and fitness. We don’t look anywhere near as match hardened and dynamic than we did from the first game last year. It’s been this general lethargic malaise.

Gov is the perfect example of this, guy just sort of going. Sure he’s playing, but he is in self preservation mode:

 

[Blue1980]

Yep, our leaders and their destructive impact on and off the field are the silent coach killers and the deafening hurdles for building culture

I am not a Voss fan (from what I have seen so far) BUT I'm coming more and more around to saying, "enough is enough is enough is enough" to the tail wagging the dog.

I know we will go through more pain and more talkback anger and more pages filled on BF and TC BUT one thing I'm confident about...that rightly or wrongly, Michael Voss wants Carlton's 17th premiership MORE THAN so many players on that list

For that reason, I want the club to hold firm on Voss and for the Senators* to realise they have no clout and that they need to pull their heads in and bust their backsides unconditonally each and every week if they want success at the CFC, otherwise they can FRO

* The Italian National Team for too long was controlled by senior players who would get their way. The Italian media called them, 'Senators' because the final vote was up to them

I’m coming around to this line of thinking as well. Can’t keep removing the coaches when the same players remain and don’t deliver success. Time to trade a few out and reinvent the list.

 

[windows1]

I’m

I have a theory and I’m convinced it’s going to come out at some point re our fitness.

I remember it was said late last year a review we going into our fitness department, and I think because of that we have gone too softly softly with training and fitness. We don’t look anywhere near as match hardened and dynamic than we did from the first game last year. It’s been this general lethargic malaise.

Gov is the perfect example of this, guy just sort of going. Sure he’s playing, but he is in self preservation mode:

Mcgivern was seriously managed all the way through preseason. I reckon he did 60 percent of it. His body is made of paper. So guys like him? Yeah no way is he ‘super fit’. No way.

 

[Blue1980]

I’m

Mcgivern was seriously managed all the way through preseason. I reckon he did 60 percent of it. His body is made of paper. So guys like him? Yeah no way is he ‘super fit’. No way.

I think overall our playing group has been managed in a similar way. Way more managed, which has just made them I’ll equipped for the season.

Russell needs to F off.

 

[aristeas]

I’m coming around to this line of thinking as well. Can’t keep removing the coaches when the same players remain and don’t deliver success. Time to trade a few out and reinvent the list.

Yeah, cos this has worked so well for us before...

Anyone of our big names would go to another club and thrive. We've seen that again and again. Zach Tuohy is a classic example of firesale mentality. It's alright to get rid of some of the 'supporting cast' but turning round the better players is what we need.

It's the culture and the coaching. Put Cripps and TDK forward. Cerra, Walsh and Kennedy in the middle. And have every f++in player practice goal kicking and hitting up a leading forward all week. The same crappy tactics week after week aren't bloody working. The more we rely on Charrlie to mark and goal against three defenders the sooner we burn him out and fail again.

 

[Blue1980]

Yeah, cos this has worked so well for us before...

Anyone of our big names would go to another club and thrive. We've seen that again and again. Zach Tuohy is a classic example of firesale mentality. It's alright to get rid of some of the 'supporting cast' but turning round the better players is what we need.

It's the culture and the coaching. Put Cripps and TDK forward. Cerra, Walsh and Kennedy in the middle. And have every f++in player practice goal kicking and hitting up a leading forward all week. The same crappy tactics week after week aren't bloody working. The more we rely on Charrlie to mark and goal against three defenders the sooner we burn him out and fail again.

I’m not advocating a total rebuild, just renovation.

Total rebuild giving players an out for poor performances won’t work.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

He’s due for a walk off isn’t he? Must be time? Maybe this week against Melbourne? Crippa? What do ya reckon? Half way through the last just clear off down the race and take your tape off?

Should never ever ever have been reappointed Captain after that moment.

I knew I wasn't wrong. I just didn't recall the specifics. His last few games before the end of the Bolton and Teague years were white-flagging on the field and (I'm guessing with some confidence), white-anting off the field

I would trade him in a heart beat...he plays for himself, does not sacrifice his game for the team and ultimately is causing more problems off the field than what he provides on field

Senator Numero Uno

 

[SurreyBlue]

windows1 agree - but this is were a strong coach and admin make the hard calls, particularly at the selection table. Been screaming for our leaders to be dropped for a month. If Voss doesn’t have the support behind him to make these calls, then he goes down swinging and he shows to us all, where the issues lie.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Yeah, cos this has worked so well for us before...

Anyone of our big names would go to another club and thrive. We've seen that again and again. Zach Tuohy is a classic example of firesale mentality. It's alright to get rid of some of the 'supporting cast' but turning round the better players is what we need.

It's the culture and the coaching. Put Cripps and TDK forward. Cerra, Walsh and Kennedy in the middle. And have every f++in player practice goal kicking and hitting up a leading forward all week. The same crappy tactics week after week aren't bloody working. The more we rely on Charrlie to mark and goal against three defenders the sooner we burn him out and fail again.

Yeah you're right...if you want CULTURE, then every player follows the coaches instructions to the best of their ability and leaves nothing on the ground

IT IS NOT UP TO THE PLAYER TO SOOK IT UP OR NOT TRY 100% IF THE COACH IS NO GOOD OR POSITIONAL MOVES SEEM STRANGE.

LEAVE THAT TO THE BOARD

TAIL ******* WAGGING DOG IF WE HAVE TO RESORT TO MAKING PLAYERS PLAY HOW AND WHERE THEY LIKE

Your first line is a complete contradiction of where this thread was headed...We have allowed players to control the narrative and have coaches sacked...yeah, cos this has worked so well for us before...

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I have a theory and I’m convinced it’s going to come out at some point re our fitness.

I remember it was said late last year a review we going into our fitness department, and I think because of that we have gone too softly softly with training and fitness. We don’t look anywhere near as match hardened and dynamic than we did from the first game last year. It’s been this general lethargic malaise.

Gov is the perfect example of this, guy just sort of going. Sure he’s playing, but he is in self preservation mode:

Yeah. We’ve look looked sluggish from R1.


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[TheReal99prelim]

Does it matter? Cripps learnt how to blame everyone else from the guys before him. Murphy. Gibbs.

Do you think Cripps backs coaches in? Was all in on The Teague Train. Was the first one off. Jungle drums have a similar feel now.

The culture of this club has become ‘blame everyone else’. That’s what we induct newcomers with. They learn it. Adopt it. Repeat it.

Why don’t you ever hear Cripps say “look I’m totally out of form. I need a big lift.” Always this ‘we’ s*t. ‘We’ doesn’t kick the ****** football.

Learn YOUR role. DO your role. Accept whether you’re doing your role. Stay in your ******* Lane.

“My role as Captain is to make sure each player around me has properly absorbed THEIR role. That they ACCEPT that role. That they give feedback to the line coach if they don’t think they can fulfill that role. They show personal responsibility. That if I hear they’re getting wasted on a Saturday night way too often that I step in and tell them to knock it the * off. But above all else, my role as Captain is to lead by example. And that example is playing MY role. Doing the job the coach asks of me on field. I haven’t been doing THAT but I am all out going to fix that.”

Stop hiding behind WE. If it’s meant to be then it’s up to ME.

I cannot thank you enough for bringing this out into the open w1. You didn't do it for me but you have confirmed what I was 99% certain of!!!!

Have you ever seen him take his tag to the forward line and say to the other fwds, "boys, take over, I'm getting beat here and am f%^&* wasted in the centre...I'll play deep fwd for a while...Charlie, why don't you go and play the midfield architect and Matty, you do the grunt work"

Now, of course, I don't know whether he does or doesn't say it but what I do know is that he's always there at stoppages...he must be the "saviour", else he aint happy

Never forget his puerile, "we're back, blues are back" walking down the race after we beat GC during covid...CRINGEMONIUM

 

[thylacine60]

I would love to have a tough and confident President right now. To breathe some strength and resolve into the place. Not cower to the media. Take a swing at a few. Go in David Kings show and take a swing at him. “Don’t lecture the Carron fans mate. I guarantee you they don’t give a s*t what you think. They all know what you think of Carlton through your North Melb glasses. Thinly veiled swipes. Talk about our side all you want but STFu about lecturing our fans mate. Who the * do you think you are? Act like a coaching Expert yet you spent what one minute as an assistant before you realised you can’t do it? The view is good from the cheap seats and take your swings as you will. But do not ****** lecture the fans.”

And hang up.

yeah - that would really get the scoreboard ticking over - embarrassing tosh.........

 

[Aphrodite]

Yeah you're right...if you want CULTURE, then every player follows the coaches instructions to the best of their ability and leaves nothing on the ground

IT IS NOT UP TO THE PLAYER TO SOOK IT UP OR NOT TRY 100% IF THE COACH IS NO GOOD OR POSITIONAL MOVES SEEM STRANGE.

LEAVE THAT TO THE BOARD

TAIL ******* WAGGING DOG IF WE HAVE TO RESORT TO MAKING PLAYERS PLAY HOW AND WHERE THEY LIKE

Your first line is a complete contradiction of where this thread was headed...We have allowed players to control the narrative and have coaches sacked...yeah, cos this has worked so well for us before...

Why are you YELLING.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Why are you YELLING.

HOW CAN I ANSWER IT IF YOU DID NOT PUT A ? AT THE END OF THAT QUESTION?

 

[Kruezing]

For some reason I actually like this idea, reckon Charlie would tear it up

Charlie would play well in any position he’s just a great footballer … always tries to make something happen … just needs some mates with a similar mindset and belief … he’s probably the only player we have currently who has genuine belief in himself and in his ability to perform …

 

[windows1]

yeah - that would really get the scoreboard ticking over - embarrassing tosh.........

Naww I’ve missed you. Welcome back.

 

[GoBlues!]

Won’t happen for Cripps until you throw a big unexpected change in the middle!
Charlie!
But won’t see it!
Coaches aren’t brave enough!

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I wouldn’t do it with Charlie, but I’d like to try Saad in the midfield with Doc and Boyd on the HBFs.

Saad knows how to win the ball in close, has a great burst of speed/run and a good disposal.

 

[__Bobcat__]

I wouldn’t do it with Charlie, but I’d like to try Saad in the midfield with Doc and Boyd on the HBFs.

Saad knows how to win the ball in close, has a great burst of speed/run and a good disposal.

Too Short! Would work with both in the middle though! Imagine the spread/dash with Charlie handing off to Saad in the middle!
SPECIAL!!


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[BlueTongue]

To be fair, it's a problem we have had for years (our mids don't kick enough goals)

I really am hoping Jack Carroll can eventually become our Chad Warner type but alas he is injured atm

I don't accept the "it's been a problem for years" argument (though I agree it has) because we've effectively turned over our list.
We just haven't recruited enough 'hungry' players, who actually want to kick goals.

I don't believe a goal kicking Mid like Vossy would restrict the gameplan soley to hitting up Charlie/Harry, I think it's more pass the buck because they are too chicken-s**t to have a shot at goal with the heat on. Different story against a weak team like West Coast where everyone lines up to be a hero.
Now it's just pass the buck.

No wonder both Charlie & Harry are feeling the pinch, because our mids don't honor any other lead or spot up someone else in the F50, just look for the big blokes who have a pack on them to contest against.

I assume it's very poor Forward coaching that our mids don't look to honor loose playes and our small are not leading into the right space.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Charlie would play well in any position he’s just a great footballer … always tries to make something happen … just needs some mates with a similar mindset and belief … he’s probably the only player we have currently who has genuine belief in himself and in his ability to perform …

Make him captain !!


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[Blue1980]

Make him captain !!


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I’ve actually been thinking that.

 

[DangerousD]

Under pressure, you sink to the level of your training.

I think that has some truth to it. I wonder if we are training skills under pressure or when extremely fatigued.

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Im not sure if they are easy to find but I recall the pre season training reports posted to this forum were very critical of our intensity and skills.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Yep, our leaders and their destructive impact on and off the field are the silent coach killers and the deafening hurdles for building culture

I am not a Voss fan (from what I have seen so far) BUT I'm coming more and more around to saying, "enough is enough is enough is enough" to the tail wagging the dog.

I know we will go through more pain and more talkback anger and more pages filled on BF and TC BUT one thing I'm confident about...that rightly or wrongly, Michael Voss wants Carlton's 17th premiership MORE THAN so many players on that list

For that reason, I want the club to hold firm on Voss and for the Senators* to realise they have no clout and that they need to pull their heads in and bust their backsides unconditonally each and every week if they want success at the CFC, otherwise they can FRO

* The Italian National Team for too long was controlled by senior players who would get their way. The Italian media called them, 'Senators' because the final vote was up to them

Wanting something doesn’t mean u get it.
I’d rather see him adapt a plan to start to achieve it, then just wanting something really badly

 

[The Dog]

They all look shattered. Serious question: do we use a sports psychologist? I’ve never heard it mentioned whether we do or not. But this is a seriously fragile playing group. There has to be something which can be done.

My main interest in the coming fortnight is going to be watching to see how long Sayers can cling on in the wake of the PwC scandal. And then to get an understanding of whether a shift at the top changes any perspectives on what should be done.

In the past few years they have used Hugh van Cuylenberg who runs the Resilience Project. Not sure what the current set up is but looking at them they all need personal appointments ASAP!!


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[myblueroan]

In the past few years they have used Hugh van Cuylenberg who runs the Resilience Project. Not sure what the current set up is but looking at them they all need personal appointments ASAP!!


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