Autopsy 2023 Round 9 – Collingwood vs GWS Giants, Sunday, May 14, 4.40PM AEST, MCG

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Giant Gutsache said:
The 23 Giants managed just 29 tackles today. Taranto alone had 12 for the Tigers on Friday night.
Really was a disappointing effort from the Giants for the one showing at the MCG this year.
There seemed to be a real lack of spirit.
Click to expand...
Limited opportunities to perform on one of the biggest states and this is what they dished up. Coaching and leadership is to be held accountable. Need to make them understand the gravity of the moment
 
I agree, there's some underperforming players, and AK has now had a chance to evaluate them thoroughly. Due to the close losses, I can understand being a bit patient, but today blew that statistic out of the water and he needs to make a point (and examples). Also, the well-performing VFL players need to see reward for their efforts.

So, for mine:
  • As others have said, Lachie Whitfield is just all at sea with his kicking and his confidence. I'd be happy to send him back to VFL to try and regain his skills and his confidence. Josh Fahey deserves a chance and would slot straight into Whitfield's role. (I'll leave the "trade him" comments aside for the more appropriate thread, needless to say, it's not that simple.)
  • Callum Brown's game was turgid. Which AK recognised by subbing him out. I see him as the classic "really good for VFL, but not good enough for AFL". While some may argue that he needs time, we're playing him on talls and it's not working in AFL. Presuming Isaac Cumming is fit (given no reason for his "injury" absence) he'll come back in.
  • I've been supportive of giving Cadman a solid run in first grade, but he's had a block to learn a few things, and now needs to consolidate back in the 2s. Happy with giving either Derksen or Gruzewski a shot.
  • James Peatling just isn't offering enough; as was mentioned, he's a cheap depth player to plug injury gaps. Hopefully Toby is back next week, so there's a natural swap. He's behind Lloyd IMHO, although Lloyd's probably not offering a huge much more at the moment.
  • I'm unsure why we put Cal Ward back to sub this week - was it to give him a bit of a rest (was that a plan for the year?) - but he's been a pretty solid role player for us, and kicked more goals than Lloyd has, so for mine he comes back in.
  • I don't know that Cam Fleeton solved any issues for us this game. We normally don't like to drop a debutant, and I don't know that the only available KPDs (Davis & Keeffe) are better choices (for various reasons), but we've really struggled with our makeshift backline the last 2 weeks.
That's 5 or 6 possible changes; I suspect the final result will be only 3 or 4, but something needs to change before the next match.

The mids weren't great either, but we have * all in reserves to turn to.
 

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Peatling had as ‘unclean’ a game as I’ve ever seen. He tries hard but is just a walking (running) mistake bag.
 
Giant Strides said:
I agree, there's some underperforming players, and AK has now had a chance to evaluate them thoroughly. Due to the close losses, I can understand being a bit patient, but today blew that statistic out of the water and he needs to make a point (and examples). Also, the well-performing VFL players need to see reward for their efforts.

So, for mine:
  • As others have said, Lachie Whitfield is just all at sea with his kicking and his confidence. I'd be happy to send him back to VFL to try and regain his skills and his confidence. Josh Fahey deserves a chance and would slot straight into Whitfield's role. (I'll leave the "trade him" comments aside for the more appropriate thread, needless to say, it's not that simple.)
  • Callum Brown's game was turgid. Which AK recognised by subbing him out. I see him as the classic "really good for VFL, but not good enough for AFL". While some may argue that he needs time, we're playing him on talls and it's not working in AFL. Presuming Isaac Cumming is fit (given no reason for his "injury" absence) he'll come back in.
  • I've been supportive of giving Cadman a solid run in first grade, but he's had a block to learn a few things, and now needs to consolidate back in the 2s. Happy with giving either Derksen or Gruzewski a shot.
  • James Peatling just isn't offering enough; as was mentioned, he's a cheap depth player to plug injury gaps. Hopefully Toby is back next week, so there's a natural swap. He's behind Lloyd IMHO, although Lloyd's probably not offering a huge much more at the moment.
  • I'm unsure why we put Cal Ward back to sub this week - was it to give him a bit of a rest (was that a plan for the year?) - but he's been a pretty solid role player for us, and kicked more goals than Lloyd has, so for mine he comes back in.
  • I don't know that Cam Fleeton solved any issues for us this game. We normally don't like to drop a debutant, and I don't know that the only available KPDs (Davis & Keeffe) are better choices (for various reasons), but we've really struggled with our makeshift backline the last 2 weeks.
That's 5 or 6 possible changes; I suspect the final result will be only 3 or 4, but something needs to change before the next match.

The mids weren't great either, but we have * all in reserves to turn to.
Click to expand...
We know KPFs can take a long time to develop but I think its fair to say Cadman hasn’t done enough to keep his spot.
 
Giant Gutsache said:
The 23 Giants managed just 29 tackles today. Taranto alone had 12 for the Tigers on Friday night.
Really was a disappointing effort from the Giants for the one showing at the MCG this year.
There seemed to be a real lack of spirit.
Click to expand...
Not mentally right going into the match.

Kingsley should be concerned.
 
Kingsley disappointed with the game (duh!) but not the season so far. He’s looking at this game as a learning opportunity against the best team in the competition

www.gwsgiants.com.au

AFL R9 Post-Match: Adam Kingsley

Adam Kingsley speaks on the loss to the Magpies at the MCG.
www.gwsgiants.com.au www.gwsgiants.com.au
 
Giant Strides said:
I agree, there's some underperforming players, and AK has now had a chance to evaluate them thoroughly. Due to the close losses, I can understand being a bit patient, but today blew that statistic out of the water and he needs to make a point (and examples). Also, the well-performing VFL players need to see reward for their efforts.

So, for mine:
  • As others have said, Lachie Whitfield is just all at sea with his kicking and his confidence. I'd be happy to send him back to VFL to try and regain his skills and his confidence. Josh Fahey deserves a chance and would slot straight into Whitfield's role. (I'll leave the "trade him" comments aside for the more appropriate thread, needless to say, it's not that simple.)
  • Callum Brown's game was turgid. Which AK recognised by subbing him out. I see him as the classic "really good for VFL, but not good enough for AFL". While some may argue that he needs time, we're playing him on talls and it's not working in AFL. Presuming Isaac Cumming is fit (given no reason for his "injury" absence) he'll come back in.
  • I've been supportive of giving Cadman a solid run in first grade, but he's had a block to learn a few things, and now needs to consolidate back in the 2s. Happy with giving either Derksen or Gruzewski a shot.
  • James Peatling just isn't offering enough; as was mentioned, he's a cheap depth player to plug injury gaps. Hopefully Toby is back next week, so there's a natural swap. He's behind Lloyd IMHO, although Lloyd's probably not offering a huge much more at the moment.
  • I'm unsure why we put Cal Ward back to sub this week - was it to give him a bit of a rest (was that a plan for the year?) - but he's been a pretty solid role player for us, and kicked more goals than Lloyd has, so for mine he comes back in.
  • I don't know that Cam Fleeton solved any issues for us this game. We normally don't like to drop a debutant, and I don't know that the only available KPDs (Davis & Keeffe) are better choices (for various reasons), but we've really struggled with our makeshift backline the last 2 weeks.
That's 5 or 6 possible changes; I suspect the final result will be only 3 or 4, but something needs to change before the next match.

The mids weren't great either, but we have * all in reserves to turn to.
Click to expand...
I agree with your assessment but just don’t think Kingsley’s the sort to make 5-6 changes. The most changes we have had this year was 3 but given the thrashing we just got, I can see 4 happening. Just don’t think we should drop Fleeton after his debut- especially after waiting since 2021 for this debut.
 
MelbourneGWS said:
Kingsley disappointed with the game (duh!) but not the season so far. He’s looking at this game as a learning opportunity against the best team in the competition

www.gwsgiants.com.au

AFL R9 Post-Match: Adam Kingsley

Adam Kingsley speaks on the loss to the Magpies at the MCG.
www.gwsgiants.com.au www.gwsgiants.com.au
Click to expand...
He looked a bit shocked, calm but a bit surprised.
Is it just me or was this an embarrassing performance. Not as bad as Sydney/ Geelong, but like our game vs Swans at SCG last year.
 
sydney_gws said:
He looked a bit shocked, calm but a bit surprised.
Is it just me or was this an embarrassing performance. Not as bad as Sydney/ Geelong, but like our game vs Swans at SCG last year.
Click to expand...
After the great win against Sydney a couple of weeks ago I thought these sorts of shockers might be behind us, but I guess there’s still a lot of work to do.
 
We didn’t give up like we did v Sydney last year… they were comprehensively better in every role, and we had no answer.

Outplayed in every match up. Their pressure was immense and unrelenting, and we just made mistake after mistake… the kids, sure, they are learning (Idun was usually okay), but that’s what makes it sting to watch Whitfield do it whether he’s playing on quickly or holding up play to then kick absolutely horribly.

Callaghan had his worst game for a while too. His kicks were not going where he wanted them too.

A curious game to diagnose what the changes should be. I confess, it did make me wonder if HH will go for the chance to experience something different, a little bit of last year rearing it’s head.


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Adam Giant said:
Peatling had as ‘unclean’ a game as I’ve ever seen. He tries hard but is just a walking (running) mistake bag.
Click to expand...
he works his but off which is admirable, but just a bit off with skills.
You notice it more too because he gets into lots of situations 9because he works his but off) where a more skilled player would be able to really do something.
Lloyd a bit the same, and it so often that when someone has half a chance, it is one of these 2, and it doesnt work.
 
domologue said:
We didn’t give up like we did v Sydney last year… they were comprehensively better in every role, and we had no answer.

Outplayed in every match up. Their pressure was immense and unrelenting, and we just made mistake after mistake… the kids, sure, they are learning (Idun was usually okay), but that’s what makes it sting to watch Whitfield do it whether he’s playing on quickly or holding up play to then kick absolutely horribly.

Callaghan had his worst game for a while too. His kicks were not going where he wanted them too.

A curious game to diagnose what the changes should be. I confess, it did make me wonder if HH will go for the chance to experience something different, a little bit of last year rearing it’s head.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
I personally thought Callaghan was an improvement on previous weeks, much improved effort around the ground and got lots of it.

Aside from a very bad clanger trying to get it out of the 50 which led to a goal and a risky shot at goal when he had safer options, he didn't do that much wrong I thought.
 
Amazing symmetry in the coaches' votes for this game - did they collude?

Needless to say, no Giants in the voting!

Collingwood v Greater Western Sydney​

10 Mason Cox (COLL)
8 Jordan De Goey (COLL)
6 Nick Daicos (COLL)
4 Tom Mitchell (COLL)
2 Darcy Moore (COLL)
 
Plenty of comments on the performance but my 2 cents
Flynn massively exposed again and he will continually be exposed as he cannot match up for a full game and unless he has more support (2 rucks) he is making Cox look All Australian just like Phillips and Draper exposed him v the Bombers and Marshall and Lyon will be eagerly waiting for the teams to be dropped and to see Flynn as solo ruck they will have a plan in place
Ward as the sub was a tactical mistake and the coaches should take ownership of that as the club has a vacum of leadership with Kelly and Coniglio too worried about the bank accounts to care about showing some leadership on the field and they both need rockets from the coaches along with Whitfield or he is over playing in defence so move him up the field too see if that gets some improvement in his game. Serious lack of leadership with the team and no quick fix for that but hopefully the club identifies that issues and works out a way forward to improve
You can worry about Lloyd and Peatling but Lloyd is likely in his last year and Peatling will be the whipping boy to yoyo between the 2 teams depending in injuries and he does show some good traits he just needs 50 games to work out somethings in his game and another pre season will help although he will always be on the cusp of playing. Brown just had a shocker and I think the big stage of the MCG effected the team and that is on all sides of the club to make it a non issue through the routine of preperation, blocking the crowd noise and using that noise as a positive and then scheduling more matches at the ground, not like any of the vic clubs will protest as the team will be easybeats for a few years
 
I’m over Flynn at the moment. Bring Briggs in.
29 tackles is such an indictment… on players and coaches.
We thought we were getting a gamestyle that reflected the best of the Tigers and more recently, the Pies.
We are definitely more like the Bombers under Rutten.
 
Giant Strides said:
Amazing symmetry in the coaches' votes for this game - did they collude?

Needless to say, no Giants in the voting!

Collingwood v Greater Western Sydney​

10 Mason Cox (COLL)
8 Jordan De Goey (COLL)
6 Nick Daicos (COLL)
4 Tom Mitchell (COLL)
2 Darcy Moore (COLL)
Click to expand...
Tom Mitchell surprises me.
 
www.afl.com.au

MATCH REVIEW: Murphy cited for 'dacking' Cadman

Nathan Murphy has copped a fine for an incident with Aaron Cadman on Sunday night
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

COLLINGWOOD defender Nathan Murphy has been fined for pulling down the shorts of GWS forward Aaron Cadman at the MCG on Sunday night. Murphy tackled Cadman over the boundary line during the second quarter, with the Magpie falling to the ground as he completed the tackle, leaving the young Giant standing above him with his back turned. Murphy then reached up and pulled Cadman's shorts down, which led the Giant to push Murphy in the neck to the ground, which resulted in a free kick to the Pies.

This incident highlights the disrespect in which VFL umpires treat GWS players (for the umpteenth time, I might add). Young guy in his 5th game gets deliberately exposed in front of 37,000 people, and yet he gets penalised himself for remonstrating with the campaigner who did the low act. VFL umps repeatedly overlook incidents/actions that should be penalties in our favour. Repeatedly. Continually.
 
Wouldn’t discard the fact that we’ve have five of the last six on the road (Canberra games are essentially away trips)
 
Sen’s analysis of the round is pretty much consistent with the general consensus of the board - we need Toby, Jesse is starting to kick well, without Sam Taylor our defensive depth is exposed and it was a horrendous loss to Collingwood


GWS GIANTS club banner


The Key Takeaway: Toby or bust for GWS

The Giants have performed above expectations to start the 2023 season but the injury to Toby Greene has exposed a deep hole in their scoring. Greene has slotted 20 majors from seven games whilst Jesse Hogan has scored 19 goals from nine matches. The next best is Brent Daniels with 11 goals. Without Toby, the Giants struggled to kick a score against Collingwood and were blown away by 65 points despite only having two less entries.

The positive: Jesse Hogan

Hogan has put together a solid few weeks as the Giants’ leading forward target. In the absence of Toby Greene, one of the Giants forwards had to step up and Hogan did so with three goals. He arguably got the better of Darcy Moore who many are tipping as the early All-Australian fullback favourite.

The negative: Worst defeat of the season

The Giants have been solid in 2023 without much success but Sunday’s defeat to Collingwood was uninspiring and deflating. The Giants led a majority of the key stats including contested possessions (130-124) and clearances (33-30) but were smashed in tackles (63-29) and conceded 30 scoring shots from just 51 inside 50’s.

What they need to tweak on: Re-work their backline

GWS’ backline of debutant Cam Fleeton, Connor Idun, Jack Buckley and Lachie Ash was always going to struggle against a Collingwood forward line who were firing on all cylinders. Sam Taylor remains a long-term out due to a hamstring injury. The Giants backline have punched above their weight in recent weeks but cracks are beginning to emerge and changes must be made.


Overreactions, positives, negatives & undroppables for all 18 AFL teams in Round 9

Every club's performance from the weekend analysed.
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au
 
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