List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[beside the seaside]

What are you talking about, coffield signed a contract did everything expected of him and copped a fairly common although major injury. Now it’s all prove it take one year, seriously you either rate him and back him in which means two years on reasonable money or you’re happy strangely to say you don’t think he’s going to make it and let him walk. All this blaming players who put their bodies on the line and wind up injured is just nonsense. Maybe its issue if they don’t rehab properly or it’s constant soft tissue but that’s not the case with coffield or billings for that matter. Looks like we’ve failed to show him the love and he’s looking elsewhere well blame the club not the player imo.

The issue is if we give him another three year contract and he doesn't play then it's just a waste.

I can definitely see him being really good, but the other side of that coin is he hasn't played good AFL footy in three years. He's spent two years injured from an ACL and the year before that he struggled.

I just don't think it's the obvious keep that everyone is making it out to be. Also he might just feel he needs a fresh start elsewhere having struggled the last few years so he might just want to leave.

It will suck to lose him but it happens.

 

[phantom13]

The issue is if we give him another three year contract and he doesn't play then it's just a waste.

I can definitely see him being really good, but the other side of that coin is he hasn't played good AFL footy in three years. He's spent two years injured from an ACL and the year before that he struggled.

I just don't think it's the obvious keep that everyone is making it out to be. Also he might just feel he needs a fresh start elsewhere having struggled the last few years so he might just want to leave.

It will suck to lose him but it happens.

If he wants to go then absolutely, let him go with our blessings.

If the situation has some more nuance and us matching a 2 (or even 3 year offer elsewhere) would keep him I’d be pretty dirty if we didn’t look very very long and very very hard.

 

[Yawkey way]

Wtf are you talking about?

Injuries are part of the game. That doesn’t mean loyalty over what’s right for the direction of the club.

It has nothing to do with Coffields character and I never mentioned anything of the sort.

At the end of the day. This is a business and it’s a business decision that needs to be made.

If Coffield is as good as everyone believes he is and will be. Then it’s a non issue.

There is a reason list managers and coaches aren’t an emotional mess like you’re being with that post and there is a reason only 2 of the other 17 clubs have an interest.

Mate you’ll wind up with a serious condition with a picket in an uncomfortable place. You’ve just said 1 year prove it is reasonable because coffield has been injured, fair enough that’s your opinion. I don’t agree with it but at least own it, blah blah business decision that needs to be made, does it really?. I rate him, he’s done nothing wrong, I’m backing him in and showing some faith with two years and triggers.

 

[Premium]

Yeah it was 30 years ago but the similarities are glaring.

Top pick, shows he’s got talent, does knee, uncontracted, gets short changed on new deal, opposition comes in, offers security.

The final bit about Joel Smith becoming a *ing AA for *ing Hawthorn is what I would like to avoid happening again.

Its not going to mess up our cap if we offer a guaranteed 2 years FFS.


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We had a injury prone aging Hannerbery on the list for 4 yrs and played 18 games , pretty sure Coffield is worthy of 2yrs

 

[Yawkey way]

The issue is if we give him another three year contract and he doesn't play then it's just a waste.

I can definitely see him being really good, but the other side of that coin is he hasn't played good AFL footy in three years. He's spent two years injured from an ACL and the year before that he struggled.

I just don't think it's the obvious keep that everyone is making it out to be. Also he might just feel he needs a fresh start elsewhere having struggled the last few years so he might just want to leave.

It will suck to lose him but it happens.

This is just crazy make a decision you rate him or you don’t and that’s reflected in the offer you put to him. If he walks that’s on the club and frankly I don’t blame him if he does.

 

[BrutThough]

The issue is if we give him another three year contract and he doesn't play then it's just a waste.

I can definitely see him being really good, but the other side of that coin is he hasn't played good AFL footy in three years. He's spent two years injured from an ACL and the year before that he struggled.

I just don't think it's the obvious keep that everyone is making it out to be. Also he might just feel he needs a fresh start elsewhere having struggled the last few years so he might just want to leave.

It will suck to lose him but it happens.

If he wants to go, then that sucks but we will be fine.

But given we lack high quality talent, it would hurt to lose one of our high end talents for the sake of giving him 2 years instead of 1. Even after coming back from his long lay off, he stood out at Sandy and his higher level of talent/skills was evident compared to his teammates.

It's going to be harder to improve if we are losing someone like him for a late pick in a shallow draft.

 

[sunny3193]

Well I'm a simple man (some may say stupid) but I like to live a very complicated life.

Pour me somethin' tall and strong
Make it a Hurricane before I go insane
It's only half past twelve, but I don't care
It's five o'clock somewhere

That's what Alan Jackson and Jimmy Buffett once said and it has always stuck with me.

I would never in my wildest dreams expect to read an Alan Jackson quote on this forum.
Colour me shocked.

 

[kernelT]

Look at Gresham, nearly missed all of 2020 and 2021 with injury.

If we had palmed him off then it would have been for a junk pick, he plays most of the last 2 seasons and is playing good enough football to most likely net us a FDP.

The Joel Smith reference should be a great reminder, for all the dud picks that come in and out of the list, you can't let the really talented ones go for peanuts.

We have strong form for buying high and selling low, so "trust the process" is a false input for st kilda supporters.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Speaking of past trades and delistings - a real chance that Darragh Joyce

41

Darragh Joyce

Age

28

Ht

195cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

3star

MG

207.6

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

4star

MG

207.6

4star

might be two games away from a Premiership Medal.

 

[beside the seaside]

This is just crazy make a decision you rate him or you don’t and that’s reflected in the offer you put to him. If he walks that’s on the club and frankly I don’t blame him if he does.

If he leaves I assume he'll get a three year deal. If the coach doesn't rate him then I think we'd be nuts to offer him that. We are going to get Dow for a pack of chips he was a highly rated draft pick and has actually played decent AFL footy lately. Part of the appeal of Coff is that he hasn't played for so long so we're worried he will be a gun which is totally understandable but there's a flip side to that.

 

[phantom13]

Speaking of past trades and delistings - a real chance that Darragh Joyce might be two games away from a Premiership Medal.

Extremely unlikely. McStay/Mihocek or Riccardi/Hogan don’t really demand an extra key back even if Payne is gone (which is not assured)

 

[kernelT]

I would never in my wildest dreams expect to read an Alan Jackson quote on this forum.
Colour me shocked.

I could have gone with Mental as Anything, but I'm a cosmopolitan chap.

Can you believe I used to think 'Nips are getting bigger' was some melodic commentary on Japanese dietary change or work-out habits…? Quite an insular childhood munching down on superdogs at Moorabbin on reflection.

 

[Premium]

Mate you’ll wind up with a serious condition with a picket in an uncomfortable place. You’ve just said 1 year prove it is reasonable because coffield has been injured, fair enough that’s your opinion. I don’t agree with it but at least own it, blah blah business decision that needs to be made, does it really?. I rate him, he’s done nothing wrong, I’m backing him in and showing some faith with two years and triggers.

People a quick to write people off , Curnow was missing in action close to 2 1/2 yrs - I bet they are glad they never traded him out.
Id rather have Coffield who has shown he can play AFL than some 2nd round pick that could go the way of Adams.

If he wants out so be it , a lot of these guys have been mollycoddled for years from Richardson and Ratten and are most probably finding out what responsibility is.
Amazing Billings , Gresham , Clark , Coffield were all first round pampered
draft picks and they look to be some of the softest players in the squad.

They will soon find the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence and if they go for big money and they don't perform , they will fold like a house of cards.

Thank god we now have some players who have heart and the more we draft players like Owens , Windhager the better we will be.

Billings is one that showed some early promise but petered out and if he is let go for a bag of beans so be it , it will give us more salary cap and at 29 next year I don't think he will turn his career around.
Sad he was not kept as a half forward instead of trying to turn him into something he wasn't.

 

[Minga]

Is there actually any smoke to Coffield going or are we just jumping at shadows here because he hasn’t resigned yet?

Can’t see us letting him go over the sake of a 2 year deal. Question will be if he wants to go, and can’t see why he would but if he does want to then it’s out of our hands anyway.

Much more interested in potential pick trading / upgrading strategies the club may come up with.

 

[Mowman]

If he leaves I assume he'll get a three year deal. If the coach doesn't rate him then I think we'd be nuts to offer him that. We are going to get Dow for a pack of chips he was a highly rated draft pick and has actually played decent AFL footy lately. Part of the appeal of Coff is that he hasn't played for so long so we're worried he will be a gun which is totally understandable but there's a flip side to that.

There is reason we we will get Dow for a pack of chips,his form hasn’t been that good or he would be playing finals

Coff was a highly rated draft pick too his best at AFL has been much better than Dows.

 

[gringo2011]

And yet we made a grand final with those 2 and never with him.

There is no science to this.

The point I was making was that past decisions aren’t an accurate predictor of future ones.

Correlation versus causation. Don't think we were better off with him, we just happened to peak as he left. GWS aren't better without Jeremy Cameron either, they just happen to have come good again and it has nothing to do with him being there or not. You could easily argue that they might be closer to a flag if they still had him.

 

[gringo2011]

There is reason we we will get Dow for a pack of chips,his form hasn’t been that good or he would be playing finals

Coff was a highly rated draft pick too his best at AFL has been much better than Dows.

It's also that Coffield has more untapped potential. He's only really played two seasons of footy. Dow has had heaps of chances and never really looked close. Dow is a more known quantity.

 

[beside the seaside]

There is reason we we will get Dow for a pack of chips,his form hasn’t been that good or he would be playing finals

Coff was a highly rated draft pick too his best at AFL has been much better than Dows.

To be fair I haven't seen a lot of Dow but I thought he was good against us this year.

You're right that Coffs best has been better, it's a fair while ago though.

Hopefully he stays and has a big year next year.

 

[bird_man]

Speaking of past trades and delistings - a real chance that Darragh Joyce might be two games away from a Premiership Medal.

How is that a real chance?

 

[Yawkey way]

If he leaves I assume he'll get a three year deal. If the coach doesn't rate him then I think we'd be nuts to offer him that. We are going to get Dow for a pack of chips he was a highly rated draft pick and has actually played decent AFL footy lately. Part of the appeal of Coff is that he hasn't played for so long so we're worried he will be a gun which is totally understandable but there's a flip side to that.

That’s fine but you’ve clearly defined why not this blaming injured players rubbish. I rate him so I’d sign him the flip side is you don‘t and you’re happy to let him walk. This is the sort of decision that defines the football managers roll, let’s hope he gets it right.

 

[Sully111]

The emotion was the post telling me “what am I talking about”

Everyone can have their opinion. I’m perfectly content if the club decides to look after its own interest. Which is exactly what’s happening with Gresham and widely accepted on here


If people want to offer a multi year deal on a bloke who has missed 2 seasons of afl level football and his most recent season was a disaster compared to his best season in 2020. That’s fine too.

Disaster?

You're a bit over the top.

He didn't have a great season, then did an ACL.

By all accounts he'd worked his butt off and was in ripping nick.

Some of us just see that he's a very good footy player when at his best, with a lot more untapped potential, so we don't want to lose him. That's hardly extreme.

If he goes because the club doesn't offer him a 2 year deal and some security that's insanely poor list management from the club imo. Like... straight up nuts.

Coff will go on to be a very good player.

 

[St Neil]

The Coffield situation definitely reminds me a lot of the Joel Smith trade back in the 90s.

If he leaves he will go on to have a very good career somewhere, we will get bugger all for him and watch in sadness

Then we should take the punt, back him in, and offer him the security of 2 years but on lesser terms.

It’s a risk for both parties but we should just get it done. We can all see him going elsewhere and kicking-on. So let’s act on it rather than eternally suffering from seller’s remorse.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

The emotion was the post telling me “what am I talking about”

Everyone can have their opinion. I’m perfectly content if the club decides to look after its own interest. Which is exactly what’s happening with Gresham and widely accepted on here


If people want to offer a multi year deal on a bloke who has missed 2 seasons of afl level football and his most recent season was a disaster compared to his best season in 2020. That’s fine too.

You two need to have a hug

 

[kernelT]

Nearly forgot about the PR spin when we took Gresham at 18 after the Carlisle Snapchat debacle.

“We would have taken him at pick 5 anyway, that’s how highly we rated him.”

Time for the draft recycle bin champ.

 

[Diehard Saint]

What are you talking about, coffield signed a contract did everything expected of him and copped a fairly common although major injury. Now it’s all prove it take one year, seriously you either rate him and back him in which means two years on reasonable money or you’re happy strangely to say you don’t think he’s going to make it and let him walk. All this blaming players who put their bodies on the line and wind up injured is just nonsense. Maybe it‘s an issue if they don’t rehab properly or it’s constant soft tissue but that’s not the case with coffield or billings for that matter. Looks like we’ve failed to show him the love and he’s looking elsewhere well blame the club not the player imo.

All the while with constantly injured Jones and Dmac hanging around…