List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[stavro#4]

I also come in peace.

Do we just skip all this nonsense about Shiel, and you guys just take the band 2 compo and be done with it?
End of first round pick - 19 for you guys and away we go.

FWIW I also laugh at the thought of you guys giving us 13 in any deal for Shiel, I think it’s shocking for you. But Gresham also isn’t worth anywhere near band 1.
Handy player but even band 2 is pushing it.

I know you’ll argue “we’ll just keep him and you get nothing” but there’s too much noise, and reported too many places about you guys wanting him out and happy to let him go.
Just because Ross went on 360 and said “they told us not to make an offer, we want to keep him” doesn’t make it so, what else was he gonna say?
“Oh nah we’re pushing him out the door” no worries here’s your band 3 from us at best then [emoji23] it would be bad practice from you guys to state that publicly and not get yourselves a good deal. Band 2 is a good deal, you take 19 and go to the draft or use it in a trade however you see fit.
No one else is paying him band 1 without getting something good back in return so your not gonna go to another club and try get it there, he’s just not worth it.
But a handy player, I’ll happily have him for a fair price.
Anyway, enjoy the day.

If you got Gresham and a later pick for less then the salary of Shiel. How is that a bad deal for you?

 

[gringo2011]

No, it's not the bickering that brings the forum down, it's being forced to acknowledge the same past mistakes over and over and over and over......

WE all know the club has pulled some absolute whoppers. We don't need daily reminders that we're crap, combined with a repetitive spiel that everything we do is wrong. It's like the forum version of a nutter standing on a soapbox in the town square with a sign hanging around his neck that says "the end is nigh!".......

We don't operate in a vacuum, every club has made blunders, some big, some small. The science of drafting has improved dramatically over the years, and far less "massive" blunders are made, but predicting the future trajectory of a recruits development is still very inexact and always will be, due to the human element.

In between time, the reports that we get about the trade period are guesses from media flogs, or worse, hypotheticals from bored footy forum nuffies with even less clues. How about we save the doom and gloom, and the melts, until we have ACTUALLY ****ed something up, instead of rolling them out daily, weeks ahead of the trade period.

At the moment its repetitive hearing about how crap we are going, when we actually haven't done anything!! They're still playing footy for Christs sake.......

Yet you are happy to keep talking about it? Perhaps at trade time you need to put a few blocks on if it triggers you. Most people are getting nervous because we are talking about taking on a broken down Shiel and flogging off Gresham for nothing for the honour.

If you aren't nervous that we could be about to make another misstep you are able to hold your nerve better than I am. I find our trade and draft periods stressful because we have made so many mistakes. If you get an electric shock every time you touch a door handle you quickly develop a fear of door handles. If you don't you're NQR or have lost all nerve endings in your hand.

 

[saintmike65]

Have a peruse through the archives if you think any of this is hindsight, except for joff, you can't look at his cause he hides his posting history

Isaac Smith would have been a good stop-gap, we could have offered him 1.5 million / year and hit also the draft.

Isaac wanted to go to a club on the verge of premiership success

 

[footyfanatic111]

If you got Gresham and a later pick for less then the salary of Shiel. How is that a bad deal for you?

The pick is almost irrelevant cause unless we are getting something of value, in a draft that is slated to go almost 50 picks max giving us something around there or even later is pointless. Yeah we get his salary off the books but he only has 1 year left anyway and then it’s off.
And you guys get 13?
Way favoured to you.
Gresham is a free agent and I personally think you almost pushing him out/happy to let him go as much as you guys don’t “publicly state that”
Here’s your band 2 compo 19 and it’s done as easy as that. (His fair value by the way)
We don’t overpay another free agent again and maybe try work a deal with someone else.
Personally think Shiel would be perfect on the dees, if he can get himself fit he would be a point of difference in their midfield and could provide some line breaking speed. If people know he’s available they may start asking the question now.
Us fans will obviously struggle to agree on the fair trade, I’m not deluded though. 13 for Shiel is a bad deal for you, but then you wouldn’t have 13 without us paying band 1 so becomes a moot point if we pay band 2 and just accept the compo.

 

[saintmike65]

OMG, stop living in the past you sad campaigner, it's all about the new breed… gubby allen, SOS and Dylan shogun Shiel.

Was Gubby the one who was hiding Whitfield away from the WADA testers when he was on a cousins sized bender?

Yep, and he paid a hellava price too!

 

[Klaatu]

Isaac wanted to go to a club on the verge of premiership success

No doubt he did, it goes to show the character of Hodge he went to Brisbane to help start building that club up probably knowing no premiership, but it didn't matter he already had 4 to he's name & still does mentoring at the club.

Begs the question as to why when you have 3 flags to your name you would chase another at a club that contends every year, it's the same as FA very rare they go to a club that finished below the one he left, the FA didn't work out as the AFL planned.

 

[DougalHoward]

Why are the Essendon board coming here trying to negotiate

 

[stavro#4]

The pick is almost irrelevant cause unless we are getting something of value, in a draft that is slated to go almost 50 picks max giving us something around there or even later is pointless. Yeah we get his salary off the books but he only has 1 year left anyway and then it’s off.
And you guys get 13?
Way favoured to you.
Gresham is a free agent and I personally think you almost pushing him out/happy to let him go as much as you guys don’t “publicly state that”
Here’s your band 2 compo 19 and it’s done as easy as that. (His fair value by the way)
We don’t overpay another free agent again and maybe try work a deal with someone else.
Personally think Shiel would be perfect on the dees, if he can get himself fit he would be a point of difference in their midfield and could provide some line breaking speed. If people know he’s available they may start asking the question now.
Us fans will obviously struggle to agree on the fair trade, I’m not deluded though. 13 for Shiel is a bad deal for you, but then you wouldn’t have 13 without us paying band 1 so becomes a moot point if we pay band 2 and just accept the compo.

You and your board are stuck on the compo.

It’s irrelevant. You are getting the player and the pick was never yours. In doing so we take the busted up Shiel that you have been trying to move since this time last year.

Of course you can absorb his salary. But you could position yourselves as someone who can take on other big deals for players who can contribute.

And lastly, you’re downplaying Gresham. A lot of supporters want to keep him. Club does too. Just not at 750k

 

[pebblesofsand]

I also come in peace.

Do we just skip all this nonsense about Shiel, and you guys just take the band 2 compo and be done with it?
End of first round pick - 19 for you guys and away we go.

FWIW I also laugh at the thought of you guys giving us 13 in any deal for Shiel, I think it’s shocking for you. But Gresham also isn’t worth anywhere near band 1.
Handy player but even band 2 is pushing it.

I know you’ll argue “we’ll just keep him and you get nothing” but there’s too much noise, and reported too many places about you guys wanting him out and happy to let him go.
Just because Ross went on 360 and said “they told us not to make an offer, we want to keep him” doesn’t make it so, what else was he gonna say?
“Oh nah we’re pushing him out the door” no worries here’s your band 3 from us at best then [emoji23] it would be bad practice from you guys to state that publicly and not get yourselves a good deal. Band 2 is a good deal, you take 19 and go to the draft or use it in a trade however you see fit.
No one else is paying him band 1 without getting something good back in return so your not gonna go to another club and try get it there, he’s just not worth it.
But a handy player, I’ll happily have him for a fair price.
Anyway, enjoy the day.

All makes perfect sense - until SOS see's that the Dons are prepared to cough up so much for McKay that North end up getting Band 1 compo and he decides he wants a piece of the action.

He might think you are a bit desperate to fill some gaps so he's flying some kites to see what he can winkle out.

End of the day, it might be that its simply you getting Gresham and we get Pick 19 compo, but also they might then discover that doing a seperate deal for Shiel works for both parties.

 

[Saint Watto]

OMG, stop living in the past you sad campaigner, it's all about the new breed… gubby allen, SOS and Dylan shogun Shiel.

Was Gubby the one who was hiding Whitfield away from the WADA testers when he was on a cousins sized bender?

He certainly was kernelT...........he was sprung........sprung very very badly.

And I think suspended by the AFL for a year if ymemory serves me correctly.

Whitfield was one very fortunate lad.

 

[saintmike65]

Now this makes a lot of sense on why essendon are so desperate to clear him off the books

Well if that’s the case, surely he’d fail his medical with us?

 

[nobhead]

The pick is almost irrelevant cause unless we are getting something of value, in a draft that is slated to go almost 50 picks max giving us something around there or even later is pointless. Yeah we get his salary off the books but he only has 1 year left anyway and then it’s off.
And you guys get 13?
Way favoured to you.
Gresham is a free agent and I personally think you almost pushing him out/happy to let him go as much as you guys don’t “publicly state that”
Here’s your band 2 compo 19 and it’s done as easy as that. (His fair value by the way)
We don’t overpay another free agent again and maybe try work a deal with someone else.
Personally think Shiel would be perfect on the dees, if he can get himself fit he would be a point of difference in their midfield and could provide some line breaking speed. If people know he’s available they may start asking the question now.
Us fans will obviously struggle to agree on the fair trade, I’m not deluded though. 13 for Shiel is a bad deal for you, but then you wouldn’t have 13 without us paying band 1 so becomes a moot point if we pay band 2 and just accept the compo.

How about a pick swap ,gresham and pick 12 for u guys and you give us pick 8 .we take on shiels contract.we end up with the 2 frdp's we want .you blokes get shiel off your books and keep a first rounder and get gresham .win win get it done .

 

[saintmike65]

Yeah that's not right. It was public knowledge that he had injury concerns leading up to us trading for him. The soft tissue injuries became more frequent in 2018 for Hanners

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=DTWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailytelegraph.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fteams%2Fsydney%2Fsydney-hit-with-double-injury-blow-with-jarrad-mcveigh-to-miss-six-weeks-and-dan-hannebery-three%2Fnews-story%2F2a30fa42911e0664d28db5413b695b01&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=dynamic-groupa-test-noscore&V21spcbehaviour=append&nk=e29bdccc28a6c377fe825f832df0cc85-1695648560

Shame we weren’t smart enough to get a good draft pick as well as Hannebery as a sweetener!!

 

[Saintos The ITK]

The two boards are negotiating.
and Dodildo haven’t even spoken yet

 

[Joffaboy]

No, it's not the bickering that brings the forum down, it's being forced to acknowledge the same past mistakes over and over and over and over......

WE all know the club has pulled some absolute whoppers. We don't need daily reminders that we're crap, combined with a repetitive spiel that everything we do is wrong. It's like the forum version of a nutter standing on a soapbox in the town square with a sign hanging around his neck that says "the end is nigh!".......

We don't operate in a vacuum, every club has made blunders, some big, some small. The science of drafting has improved dramatically over the years, and far less "massive" blunders are made, but predicting the future trajectory of a recruits development is still very inexact and always will be, due to the human element.

In between time, the reports that we get about the trade period are guesses from media flogs, or worse, hypotheticals from bored footy forum nuffies with even less clues. How about we save the doom and gloom, and the melts, until we have ACTUALLY ****ed something up, instead of rolling them out daily, weeks ahead of the trade period.

At the moment its repetitive hearing about how crap we are going, when we actually haven't done anything!! They're still playing footy for Christs sake.......

[emoji817]

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[_Maximus_12]

How about a pick swap ,gresham and pick 12 for u guys and you give us pick 8 .we take on shiels contract.we end up with the 2 frdp's we want .you blokes get shiel off your books and keep a first rounder and get gresham .win win get it done .

Think this is probably closer to what’s being worked out than what Ralph is reporting.

Essendon offer Gresham band 1 money.
We get pick 13.

2 weeks later

We trade pick 12 for Shiel and pick 8 which in essence means Essendon dump shiels contract for a 4 pick downgrade and get Gresham in.

 

[L_W_P]

I also come in peace.

Do we just skip all this nonsense about Shiel, and you guys just take the band 2 compo and be done with it?
End of first round pick - 19 for you guys and away we go.

This guy gets it.

 

[nobhead]

Think this is probably closer to what’s being worked out than what Ralph is reporting.

Essendon offer Gresham band 1 money.
We get pick 13.

2 weeks later

We trade pick 12 for Shiel and pick 8 which in essence means Essendon dump shiels contract for a 4 pick downgrade and get Gresham in.

100% makes sense . Then we

Think this is probably closer to what’s being worked out than what Ralph is reporting.

Essendon offer Gresham band 1 money.
We get pick 13.

2 weeks later

We trade pick 12 for Shiel and pick 8 which in essence means Essendon dump shiels contract for a 4 pick downgrade and get Gresham in.

100% then we offer GC 8 and 12 for pick 4.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

100% makes sense . Then we

100% then we offer GC 8 and 12 for pick 4.

Or 8 & Dougal for #4


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[Yawkey way]

Yet you are happy to keep talking about it? Perhaps at trade time you need to put a few blocks on if it triggers you. Most people are getting nervous because we are talking about taking on a broken down Shiel and flogging off Gresham for nothing for the honour.

If you aren't nervous that we could be about to make another misstep you are able to hold your nerve better than I am. I find our trade and draft periods stressful because we have made so many mistakes. If you get an electric shock every time you touch a door handle you quickly develop a fear of door handles. If you don't you're NQR or have lost all nerve endings in your hand.

I might just add it‘s a trade thread and posters are responding to a preposterous trade mooted by a respected writer. Now I’ll get the John Ralph is a flog, the herald sun in garbage comments but he has a coveted job and it sells. What exactly are we meant to talk about on here given the trade period hasn’t even began, everything is a hypothetical. Winning one flag in the clubs history isn’t just bad luck it also involves a lot of bad decision making and a couple of years of good decisions won’t wash away all the lousy ones. Posters have every right to be dubious and to discuss the possibility that the mooted trade or a less than fantastic version from our point of view may in fact turn out to be true.

This garbage is becoming a yearly thing and listening to the equivalent of Taylor Swift fans raging because someone dared to question her greatness is tiresome to say the least.

 

[nobhead]

Or 8 & Dougal for #4


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is going to be plenty of options there for us to really improve the list .would GC go for something like pick 4 and hollands for 8 & 12 ?.and would we be happy with that outcome.

 

[stavro#4]

“However, given Shiel's inability to play more than 19 games in each of the past four seasons, Essendon may need to send a sweetener if they wish to move Shiel off their books”

And round and round we go

 

[Sully111]

I rang the club yesterday and apparently I have absolutely no say in any of the trade deals

 

[stavro#4]

**** me. Now he is arguing a third view point

 

[BigMonty]

Is there any possibility that Billings gets somehow involved in this.
Shiel salary dump to Saints Saints salary dump to Ess.

Ess get younger player 250k cheaper than Shiel, both who have upside if they can get their bodies right. Also provides breathing space for both players and clubs.

Some of the 250k is added to Gresh free agency getting us pick 13.

Ess get a player they have interest in, we move on a player that is not part of our future sadly.

Is that not better than going to the draft as they have plenty of young developing players.

Just a thought

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