List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[gringo2011]

He was talking about the young kids and of course Gresham because of the FA thing. But Battle got a mention earlier - something to do with working hard in the pre-season or something. I just can’t remember because he moved on fast.

Seemed to be saying that Battle has become a good player.

 

[Sully111]

He was talking about the young kids and of course Gresham because of the FA thing. But Battle got a mention earlier - something to do with working hard in the pre-season or something. I just can’t remember because he moved on fast.

Yes I was being sarcastic. Saw the interview... thought it was very good. Hardly see it as "interesting" that Hunter didn't get a mention. As you said, he was talking about the kids in reference to us going to the draft.

 

[Sully111]

Seemed to be saying that Battle has become a good player.

Yep. Hard worker etc

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I’m not sure Ross always follows a logical sequence in his brain. What was the Josh Battle

24

Josh Battle

Age

27

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

tangent right at the start . I wouldn’t be looking for legal loopholes in what he says!

 

[Diehard Saint]

I’m not sure Ross always follows a logical sequence in his brain. What was the Josh Battle tangent right at the start . I wouldn’t be looking for legal loopholes in what he says!

I think he‘s laughing inside as he tries to bamboozle the media types with some of his non-sequiturs and rambling - but have no doubt at all he is completely articulate when talking to the players.

He appears to have a very good sense of humour. Weird, but good. He’s a character, is our Rossy.

 

[Seb77]

Right now I’m on the fence with Dougal but just ignoring the eye test for a sec and rather going with the numbers:

Rds 1-19 when he played we avged 72 pts against (mind you the game vs Richmond at the MCG we only conceded 2 goals in about a quarter and a half when he got subbed off (if I remember correctly))

Rds 20-21 which is when cordy played but as a forward 93 and 73 pts against (avg 83)

Rds 22-24: with cordy as a defender we averaged 61 pts against, one game being the second most pts for team

Although there’s some small sample sizes it’s a pretty large difference between the two, I’d also check pre-bye and post-bye with and without dougal but can’t really be stuffed doing that

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

I think the "what if one of our key defenders, it would derail our season" argument for not trading Howard is a bit weak.

We have 3 players in Cordy, Battle, and Wilkie who are all capable of playing on opposition talls to varying levels of quality. Sure, it wouldn't be ideal if Battle or Wilkie was forced to play on the gorilla forwards for a whole year, but they could do it. You simply cannot cover every position with high quality depth.

Equally, adversity breeds opportunity, and there's every chance another player on our list stands up if a Cordy or a Wilkie gets injured. We wouldn't have unearthed Caminiti were it not for King getting injured at the start of this year. Shit, we may not have unearthed Wilkie were it not for our poor KPD stocks a couple of years ago.

My argument re: trading Howard would actually be the opposite. What if none of our KPD get injured next year? Are we going to pay Dougal 600k a year to play in the ressies? Are we going to not play Cordy, who seems to suit our structures better than Dougal? Would Howard be happy with that? Would Zaine?

 

[ScrappyDo]

Right now I’m on the fence with Dougal but just ignoring the eye test for a sec and rather going with the numbers:

Rds 1-19 when he played we avged 72 pts against (mind you the game vs Richmond at the MCG we only conceded 2 goals in about a quarter and a half when he got subbed off (if I remember correctly))

Rds 20-21 which is when cordy played but as a forward 93 and 73 pts against (avg 83)

Rds 22-24: with cordy as a defender we averaged 61 pts against, one game being the second most pts for team

Although there’s some small sample sizes it’s a pretty large difference between the two, I’d also check pre-bye and post-bye with and without dougal but can’t really be stuffed doing that

That's about right. Doog's brain fades would cost 2 goals a game like clockwork.

 

[Mowman]

Right now I’m on the fence with Dougal but just ignoring the eye test for a sec and rather going with the numbers:

Rds 1-19 when he played we avged 72 pts against (mind you the game vs Richmond at the MCG we only conceded 2 goals in about a quarter and a half when he got subbed off (if I remember correctly))

Rds 20-21 which is when cordy played but as a forward 93 and 73 pts against (avg 83)

Rds 22-24: with cordy as a defender we averaged 61 pts against, one game being the second most pts for team

Although there’s some small sample sizes it’s a pretty large difference between the two, I’d also check pre-bye and post-bye with and without dougal but can’t really be stuffed doing that

That Richmond game Howard with a couple of silly turn overs that cost goals

 

[Seb77]

That Richmond game Howard with a couple of silly turn overs that cost goals

Yep and that was basically the difference in the end, hindsight says should’ve subbed him off when tigers subbed Samson Ryan off, we waited too long

But that’s a past issue, I’m fine with keeping dougal if he promises to not be a lazy shit on field

Make him earn his spot (next year) similar to when we made gresh sub, I’d imagine his numbers have increased since that day

 

[PandaG]

Yeah for as much as I whinge about JUH, @1 to a finals team and North getting exceptions, if we got McKenzie, we don't get Pou.
Also to stop our whinging I believe the AFL would have had a word about Owens and Windy warning clubs not to take them in the first 20 or bid before 30.
I have no confidence in the integrity of the draft and I believe the AFL would do something like that.
If the nga's are treated like the northern ones, good for us. S-E bayside Melbourne is the breeding ground for AFL in this state, we should get plenty of options going forward.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I agree with this
I think we had help with Owens and Windy

 

[ScrappyDo]

Yep and that was basically the difference in the end, hindsight says should’ve subbed him off when tigers subbed Samson Ryan off, we waited too long

But that’s a past issue, I’m fine with keeping dougal if he promises to not be a lazy s**t on field

Make him earn his spot (next year) similar to when we made gresh sub, I’d imagine his numbers have increased since that day

No you don't pay circa $650k for a bloke to earn his spot. That sort of coin is for your top 15 to 5 types. Port sold us another pup, our trading history with them has netted Austin, Clav and Doogs. They're cursed where we're concerned.

 

[Seb77]

No you don't pay circa $650k for a bloke to earn his spot. That sort of coin is for your top 15 to 5 types. Port sold us another pup, our trading history with them has netted Austin, Clav and Doogs. They're cursed where we're concerned.

Forgot he was on that much tbh, but yeah I’m still on the fence for it, if he can get back to his best could be alright.

But yeah realising he was on 650k would say we’d definitely have to let him go if he’s no good, I’d easily rather pay Gresham

 

[LeonardHayes87]

The reasons Dougal is being shopped around is:
1. He’s error prone which often results in goals
2. For a 200cm defender he rarely takes a contested or intercept mark
3. Zaine cost a packet of chips and has effectively filled his role comfortably whilst Adams and Van Ess do their apprenticeship

 

[ScrappyDo]

Forgot he was on that much tbh, but yeah I’m still on the fence for it, if he can get back to his best could be alright.

But yeah realising he was on 650k would say we’d definitely have to let him go if he’s no good, I’d easily rather pay Gresham

I think pulling Max's arm out was a death sentence tbh.

 

[sunny3193]

That Richmond game Howard with a couple of silly turn overs that cost goals

The Richmond game was when i finally lost patience with both Gresham and Howard.
We can not go forward carrying these two flawed footballers.
Better to rip the Band-Aid off now.

 

[Oh When the Saints]

No you don't pay circa $650k for a bloke to earn his spot. That sort of coin is for your top 15 to 5 types. Port sold us another pup, our trading history with them has netted Austin, Clav and Doogs. They're cursed where we're concerned.

Don't forget Darryl Wakelin (we gave away a premiership full back for nothing) and Barry Brooks (gave up first and second round picks). Port have reamed us forever.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Actually imo is says a lot more about injuries and depth. We have some very promising youngsters who may go on to be regular senior players would you swap that for senior list cloggers.

Agree in part but Sandringham could still surround the young players with a lot more player quality than they do. The Sandringham group apart from one or two are not even B grade VFL standard.

 

[Sniffy Jenkins]

The reasons Dougal is being shopped around is:
1. He’s error prone which often results in goals
2. For a 200cm defender he rarely takes a contested or intercept mark
3. Zaine cost a packet of chips and has effectively filled his role comfortably whilst Adams and Van Ess do their apprenticeship

If we had some injuries to Battle, Wilkie and Cordy next year and there is no Howard I think Adams in his 3rd season would be capable of stepping up. He still needs a few more kilos of muscle. Was 85 kgs when we got him and is at 91 kgs now. Few more kegs to go. See what he comes back at over summer.

Van Es physically looks ready 196cm and 101 kgs for a 19 year old is scary....don't be fooled either he is a supreme athlete, I think he broke the running vertical jump record at combine. Just needs to mature as a footballer and grow in confidence. Cant see a debut next season for him but keen to see him break in the side.

 

[MrFoster]

Dougal is not a good footballer. He can run and spoil a ball because he is an athlete.
He doesn’t intercept and set up play, he doesn’t generate offence, he has horrible decision making of when to mark and when to spoil. He’s a tall athlete who doesn’t know his own limitations.
We’ve looked better without him because Cordy plays his role, and executes it.
Move Howard off our list.

Extactly. Howard is a liability. I don’t remember a game where he doesn’t make a stupid mistake. Cordy has played 3 games as a key back, but already looked assured, no brain fades, can intercepts, and generate offence. Definitely is an upgrade on Howard.

 

[stfan]

The lack of available tall backs makes it a sellers market. If McKay goes to Sydney there might not be many options for a side like Essendon. We paid quite a lot for him. Pick 12 and 18 and a future third round pick for pick 10, Howard and Ryder. I assume Ryder was the future third rounder.

12 and 18 FOR 10 and Howard.

Well quite a bit is a pick in the twenties then, as the difference between 10 and 12 is worth more than two picks added on to 18.

 

[Veer Right]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fafl-trade-news-harley-reid-draft-latest-jade-gresham-sam-flanders-tarryn-thomas-and-more%2Fnews-story%2F12af704a133f03f738db98cfe467d494&memtype=registered&mode=premium&v21=HIGH-Segment-1-SCORE

Someone have access?

 

[Sully111]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fafl-trade-news-harley-reid-draft-latest-jade-gresham-sam-flanders-tarryn-thomas-and-more%2Fnews-story%2F12af704a133f03f738db98cfe467d494&memtype=registered&mode=premium&v21=HIGH-Segment-1-SCORE

View attachment 1791466

Someone have access?

Apparently they watched footage of him trying to pass the ball and have had second thoughts

 

[Joffaboy]

No you don't pay circa $650k for a bloke to earn his spot. That sort of coin is for your top 15 to 5 types. Port sold us another pup, our trading history with them has netted Austin, Clav and Doogs. They're cursed where we're concerned.

Rubbish. We have the best defence in the league and Howard has been an integral part of it.
He has limitations like all players but to say we have been sold a pup is patently ridiculous.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BrutThough]

If we had some injuries to Battle, Wilkie and Cordy next year and there is no Howard I think Adams in his 3rd season would be capable of stepping up. He still needs a few more kilos of muscle. Was 85 kgs when we got him and is at 91 kgs now. Few more kegs to go. See what he comes back at over summer.

Van Es physically looks ready 196cm and 101 kgs for a 19 year old is scary....don't be fooled either he is a supreme athlete, I think he broke the running vertical jump record at combine. Just needs to mature as a footballer and grow in confidence. Cant see a debut next season for him but keen to see him break in the side.

Adams is still struggling at VFL level. He'd need to have a preseason from the clouds to be anywhere near ready to step on an AFL field next year.

If he is our next up key defender next year, we are going in on the back foot.