The song that applies to us is "Total Control". That's what we need.
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Opinion 2024 and Beyond
- Thread starter DeathlyAccurate
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- Oct 18, 2018
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Over You
Great song. All we need to do is control the freaking ball.
- Oct 18, 2018
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Don't need Bailey Smith for that.
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caesar88
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LONG POST INCOMING
Been thinking a bit about why we've perhaps underperformed in grand finals and, to a lesser extent, big games (hate that term as it's so broad - so many games can be 'big games'.)
The general theories seem to be we select injured players too often, Horse coaches us to be too conservative, or he's just not good at communicating to his troops.
I don't know if those are right or not (personally I don't think so) but I'd like to put forward another theory... it's about hype & pressure, and our inability to deal with it.
Just a gut feel but I feel like we try hard to be modest and low-key as a club, but the prevalence of social media and just footy media in general has tipped the ledger in favour of teams that embrace the attention they get.
Thinking about the final four teams this year, they all came with a great deal of hype. Teams like Collingwood, GWS & Brisbane were overt and almost antagonistic in how good they thought they were. From the way their players conduct themselves on the field and off it, to the things their coaches said and did, to even their social media presence. My initial thought when I see these things is, "arrogant, flogs, etc." But then I look at how the finals panned out this year, and I think... well, it kinda worked?
And not just this year. Geelong absolutely thrived on their favouritism last year. Melbourne rode a drought-breaking wave all the way to the flag in 2021, Richmond did the same in 2017 and so did the Bulldogs the year before (though obviously in dubious circumstances.) And even Carlton, though they didn't go all the way this September, made a prelim and won two finals despite all the weight of expectations.
Players are acutely aware of what the perception of them within the industry is, because they're all active on social media. The whole "we don't pay attention to what they say" company line just doesn't fly anymore. They do pay attention to what's being said about them, they just need to learn how best to deal with it. Ignore it or lean into it?
Being "under the radar" has its perks no doubt (overall club stability, strength of culture, etc.) but I feel like between our coaches and our players and even sometimes our social media team, we try to stifle hype about our ability, our accomplishments etc., to avoid pressure/scrutiny or not to get ahead of ourselves. But then when big moments come, we're asking blokes who we've kept in the shadows for years to suddenly be comfortable in the spotlight, owning 'the moment.'
Going forward I'd like to see us create more buzz and excitement about our players. I don't think it's a coincidence that every time a Swans player has generated a great deal of external hype - Buddy (though he came with that), Papley, Warner last year, Gulden this year - their performances have only elevated. It's like they've fed off it. Combined with what I've seen from opposition players and teams in recent years, I don't know that trying to keep players modest is the way to go in the current game. It seems to me like players need to believe that they can be great and then see where that belief can take them.
Apologies for the rant. Just my thoughts after a September of observing, I could be way off.
Been thinking a bit about why we've perhaps underperformed in grand finals and, to a lesser extent, big games (hate that term as it's so broad - so many games can be 'big games'.)
The general theories seem to be we select injured players too often, Horse coaches us to be too conservative, or he's just not good at communicating to his troops.
I don't know if those are right or not (personally I don't think so) but I'd like to put forward another theory... it's about hype & pressure, and our inability to deal with it.
Just a gut feel but I feel like we try hard to be modest and low-key as a club, but the prevalence of social media and just footy media in general has tipped the ledger in favour of teams that embrace the attention they get.
Thinking about the final four teams this year, they all came with a great deal of hype. Teams like Collingwood, GWS & Brisbane were overt and almost antagonistic in how good they thought they were. From the way their players conduct themselves on the field and off it, to the things their coaches said and did, to even their social media presence. My initial thought when I see these things is, "arrogant, flogs, etc." But then I look at how the finals panned out this year, and I think... well, it kinda worked?
And not just this year. Geelong absolutely thrived on their favouritism last year. Melbourne rode a drought-breaking wave all the way to the flag in 2021, Richmond did the same in 2017 and so did the Bulldogs the year before (though obviously in dubious circumstances.) And even Carlton, though they didn't go all the way this September, made a prelim and won two finals despite all the weight of expectations.
Players are acutely aware of what the perception of them within the industry is, because they're all active on social media. The whole "we don't pay attention to what they say" company line just doesn't fly anymore. They do pay attention to what's being said about them, they just need to learn how best to deal with it. Ignore it or lean into it?
Being "under the radar" has its perks no doubt (overall club stability, strength of culture, etc.) but I feel like between our coaches and our players and even sometimes our social media team, we try to stifle hype about our ability, our accomplishments etc., to avoid pressure/scrutiny or not to get ahead of ourselves. But then when big moments come, we're asking blokes who we've kept in the shadows for years to suddenly be comfortable in the spotlight, owning 'the moment.'
Going forward I'd like to see us create more buzz and excitement about our players. I don't think it's a coincidence that every time a Swans player has generated a great deal of external hype - Buddy (though he came with that), Papley, Warner last year, Gulden this year - their performances have only elevated. It's like they've fed off it. Combined with what I've seen from opposition players and teams in recent years, I don't know that trying to keep players modest is the way to go in the current game. It seems to me like players need to believe that they can be great and then see where that belief can take them.
Apologies for the rant. Just my thoughts after a September of observing, I could be way off.
The King!
Chosen One
Excellent observation I said similar to some
people the other day.
Small example, maybe I am odd but teams come down here I sometimes go along and watch their training at Utas Stadium. Just a kick around and maybe meet and greet . most clubs post when they are going to be there or you ask.
I asked Sydney each time both Launceston and Hobart- only club to say ohh we don't share that.
Why? you get a fair few teams fans down to watch and cheer training , it's such an easy thing to be open.
Pump up the team online. Supposedly the most popular club , give people a reason to at least follow closely.
Relax a bit , express themselves more- maybe not with wrestling I guess
We are odd with announcements of contracts, milestones etc unless it is Buddy .
caesar88
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Yeah it feels like as a club we sequester ourselves from the spotlight a lot. I understand it in a way. We've been burnt by the AFL, by the media, even by footy fans in the past. And a marketing strategy for us at trade time does seem to be the "come to Sydney for privacy etc."
But I just don't know that it helps our players when they're on the biggest stage and suddenly there is no privacy, you can't hide or avoid scrutiny when it's a grand final and there's 4 million eyeballs on you. I imagine you'd have to be pretty comfortable in that situation not giving a **** what is being said about you. How can you have that feeling if nothing is ever said about you?
Add to that the banning of roaming Brian.
We would be the first club to break away from the AFL if a rival league or a takeover happens.
I reckon we have real disdain for the AFL and what they stand for.
The King!
Chosen One
Used and abused for TV rights.
- Jun 21, 2019
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[QUOTE="Heeney2Franklin, post:
I reckon we have real disdain for the AFL and what they stand for.[/QUOTE]
And so we should:
These are just some examples of City Hall arbitrarily bending the swans over.
Would be puzzling if we didn’t have complete and utter disdain for the AFL
I reckon we have real disdain for the AFL and what they stand for.[/QUOTE]
And so we should:
- F-Bomb tirade from Fitzpatrick to Colless
- trade ban
- “ we don’t know why they boo Goodes”
- COLA removed
- can’t rejig Franklin contact
- 2016 Qualifying final moved away from SCG
- 2016 grand final
- away games every NRL magic round
These are just some examples of City Hall arbitrarily bending the swans over.
Would be puzzling if we didn’t have complete and utter disdain for the AFL
D
Del198236
Guest
And so we should:
- F-Bomb tirade from Fitzpatrick to Colless
- trade ban
- “ we don’t know why they boo Goodes”
- COLA removed
- can’t rejig Franklin contact
- 2016 Qualifying final moved away from SCG
- 2016 grand final
- away games every NRL magic round
These are just some examples of City Hall arbitrarily bending the swans over.
Would be puzzling if we didn’t have complete and utter disdain for the AFL
[/QUOTE]
I reckon.. We should just not turn up one game.. Maybe a game against collingwood in melbourne.. see how their tv payments go then..
Love a good protest - all us supporters could pack the SCG wearing Red & White in solidarity..
The King!
Chosen One
We have an afl appointed board
or we only elect 2 at least I think.
Happy to be corrected , but if that's right we aren't going to be telling the afl where to go
or we only elect 2 at least I think.
Happy to be corrected , but if that's right we aren't going to be telling the afl where to go
- Jun 21, 2019
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We have an afl appointed board
or we only elect 2 at least I think.
Happy to be corrected , but if that's right we aren't going to be telling the afl where to go
We still consider them with distain though - even if only silently
The King!
Chosen One
The fans do perhaps , but every clubs fan base thinks they are hard done by.
Skim the boards- most other fans think we are looked after for a start
- Jun 21, 2019
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Collingwood last two years and especially this finals margins (7, 1 and 4 points victories) illustrates that our number one focus needs to be our end game
We were a three quarter time team this year
All the talk about injuries, clearances, lack of Ruck and KPD, whatever isn’t really an issue if we can sort out our end game
Could have been premiers 2023 but history says no where near it
Do better in the fourth Swans
We were a three quarter time team this year
All the talk about injuries, clearances, lack of Ruck and KPD, whatever isn’t really an issue if we can sort out our end game
Could have been premiers 2023 but history says no where near it
Do better in the fourth Swans
Last edited:
- Jun 21, 2019
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The fans do perhaps , but every clubs fan base thinks they are hard done by.
Skim the boards- most other fans think we are looked after for a start
Yeah I get that - we’re long past being anyone’s second favourite team
“You can’t have them all” still boggles my mind a decade on … the biggest non-afl city with zero go home factor and most expensive to live in by far and we’re still the only team to ever be banned from trading
Anyway I digress - now Gill has eventually gone, Dillon in and especially Andrew Ireland as a commissioner (and Matt de bore as well actually) I have hope we won’t be treated with the contempt we have been under the mcLaughlin regime
I think all four northern clubs should get a fair crack at it for a while (until one becomes too successful…let’s hope it us)
Reading the Mongrel Punt Player Ratings for the GF triggered me to ask myself what did the Pies have that we didn't. Some things were pretty obvious.
1) They had two ruckmen, neither of who were A-class but who rotated pretty well and overall got over the top of Oscar. One of them also had a terrific game around the ground, but not better than McLean did against Carlton. Grundy will sort that and having Amartey and Buller as extra backup to McLean
.
2) Jordan de Goey. Not so much that he had a huge game but he smashed a few packs and got on top of Dunkeley. We don't have anyone with those sorts of capabilities nor any on the horizon. Not sure that it's an absolute necessity but it's another option to create forward momentum.
3) Nick Daicos. Didn't do huge damage but he still had the ball in hand a lot which meant the opponent didn't. Evasive skills that we don't have.
4) Bobby Hill getting away from his marker. Linc and Charlie in moments causing havoc against decent defenders.
5) Four quarter energy. Consistent and constant. Physical and mental.
There's more, but those struck me.
From Brisbane
6) Kidean Coleman when he was allowed time and space in the first half. Wizardry. Our nearest of course is Lizard but it needs others doing their jobs to allow that to happen.
My conclusion is that we're not a mile off it cattle wise but mentally we have a fair bit of work to do.
1) They had two ruckmen, neither of who were A-class but who rotated pretty well and overall got over the top of Oscar. One of them also had a terrific game around the ground, but not better than McLean did against Carlton. Grundy will sort that and having Amartey and Buller as extra backup to McLean
.2) Jordan de Goey. Not so much that he had a huge game but he smashed a few packs and got on top of Dunkeley. We don't have anyone with those sorts of capabilities nor any on the horizon. Not sure that it's an absolute necessity but it's another option to create forward momentum.
3) Nick Daicos. Didn't do huge damage but he still had the ball in hand a lot which meant the opponent didn't. Evasive skills that we don't have.
4) Bobby Hill getting away from his marker. Linc and Charlie in moments causing havoc against decent defenders.
5) Four quarter energy. Consistent and constant. Physical and mental.
There's more, but those struck me.
From Brisbane
6) Kidean Coleman when he was allowed time and space in the first half. Wizardry. Our nearest of course is Lizard but it needs others doing their jobs to allow that to happen.
My conclusion is that we're not a mile off it cattle wise but mentally we have a fair bit of work to do.
- Jun 21, 2019
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Grundy and Haydos can be our Cox and Cameron
Heeney can be our de Goey
Errol our N. Daicos
Paps our Hill
Lizard our Coleman
Just got to put it all together - belief is the key element to conquer
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- Mar 29, 2019
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The King!
Chosen One
Pyke is a big loss.
Watching the Afl doco on amazon again yesterday they were doing Hardwicks review in 2020 and Benny Gale was saying 10 year plus in a job like senior coach you either become dictator like or over delegate to ease the burden. I think having an experienced head like a Pyke was a nice offset to Horse and I am sure helped balance out those potential issues for a long serving coach.
Plus from the outside he seemed to improve the side tactically where as Horse to me seems more a man manager from a distance.
Do we still have Leon Cameron? or maybe a similar experienced coach can take Pykes
spot rather than someone more junior
Watching the Afl doco on amazon again yesterday they were doing Hardwicks review in 2020 and Benny Gale was saying 10 year plus in a job like senior coach you either become dictator like or over delegate to ease the burden. I think having an experienced head like a Pyke was a nice offset to Horse and I am sure helped balance out those potential issues for a long serving coach.
Plus from the outside he seemed to improve the side tactically where as Horse to me seems more a man manager from a distance.
Do we still have Leon Cameron? or maybe a similar experienced coach can take Pykes
spot rather than someone more junior
Pretty much the conclusion I reached. Missing a Jack Crisp, Jeremy Howe and a Darcy Moore.
Grundy and Haydos actually better.
We have a Warner.
A few others equal or better.
As you say - belief. Energy.
The King!
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Definitely agree it's inability to cope with pressure but I don't think it's an off-field thing.
In 2014 Hawks came at us (revenge for 2012 and Buddy) and we wen to water. In 2012 GF we laid 110 tackles. I remember checking the tackle count in 3rd or 4th quarter and it was 35 (I know I could look it up...). Some wise person said we needed a Mumford. Exactly, someone who could protect Hannebery who was being targeted and instill some fear into Hawks.
In 2022 some other wise guy said we just got beaten up. I think true because we didn't have the big bodies and the big game experience. We needed a JPK and Mumford again to protect and win the hard ball. All those years of recruiting smart, precise-kicking outside players worked to our detriment.
That's my contribution to the rant-off.
I reckon there's a fear of making mistakes which leads to either conservative footy when in front in the last quarter or means were a split second behind the opposition to start matches. I also think the inability of stopping teams getting easy repeat centre clearances during the big games is a big issue. Hopefully a few of those things are rectified through recruitment (grundy) & more nuanced coaching. Hopefully another off-season builds a harder edge for our players both physically & mentally.
I'm still of the belief we either need to develop permanent midfield A grade contested bulls (mills/ I'm bullish on heeney for this role) or recruit one. They don't need to be A-grade players but A grade in winning the contested ball (e.g. libba). I think it's unfair to expect it from the likes of Sheldrick or other youngsters this early in their careers. Tbh you can't rely on one contested bulls, you need 2+ but not overdoing it like the bulldogs. 2/3 contested bulls & then support from other midfielders.
Feel like we somewhat achieved it in the 2nd half of 2022 with Mills/Parker/Rowy. I have doubts the other 2 can do it consistently for an entire season.
I'm still of the belief we either need to develop permanent midfield A grade contested bulls (mills/ I'm bullish on heeney for this role) or recruit one. They don't need to be A-grade players but A grade in winning the contested ball (e.g. libba). I think it's unfair to expect it from the likes of Sheldrick or other youngsters this early in their careers. Tbh you can't rely on one contested bulls, you need 2+ but not overdoing it like the bulldogs. 2/3 contested bulls & then support from other midfielders.
Feel like we somewhat achieved it in the 2nd half of 2022 with Mills/Parker/Rowy. I have doubts the other 2 can do it consistently for an entire season.
