Opinion 2024 and Beyond

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I think you need HARD rather than nasty. When you tackle aim to make them feel it. Legal bumps. Tough shepherds. Full on pressure. Stand up to bullsh*t nastiness but keep it legal. Take no prisoners.

One of the things I like about McLean is he will not stand for Oppo nonsense. That said I have not seen any stupid and nasty behaviours.

 

[Ehswan]

I think you need HARD rather than nasty. When you tackle aim to make them feel it. Legal bumps. Tough shepherds. Full on pressure. Stand up to bullsh*t nastiness but keep it legal. Take no prisoners.

Totally agree .Mihocek from Collingwood is a good example..definitely see that in Maclean

 

[Ehswan]

Totally agree .Mihocek from Collingwood is a good example..definitely see that in Maclean

 

[Ehswan]

McLean

 

[Jewelsbon]

I don't recall us ever having nasty defenders. Some very good and very hard defenders, but not nasty or dirty and we've done okay with that in years gone by.

 

[rustycrate]

Ever the optimist Punts!

He keeps us grounded. Doesn't let us get too far ahead of ourselves.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

McLean

Ed Balls.

 

[Jewelsbon]

He keeps us grounded. Doesn't let us get too far ahead of ourselves.

That's one way to look at it!

 

[Callipygian]

I don't watch enough of the reserves to say with total confidence, but I do think there are a few players that are maybe being pigeon holed as reserves players that could actually break out and be a source for improvement this season.

Warner, Vickery, Magor, Mitchell etc.

Small/medium defender seems like a position that is there for the taking by someone. They just need to be really tough and competitive.

I have high hopes for Vickery, but I'm not expecting him to play seniors this year or even, necessarily, next.

Warner is definitely the best of those right now but whether that's good enough to win a spot in the senior team against the competition in the short-medium term, I'm just not sure.

Magor has a lot of talent but also a lot of unknown.

I've cooled a bit on Mitchell. I just haven't seen anything particular that excites me about him yet. I'll keep watching optimistically.

I would go so far as to say that three things need to happen for us to be top four and a chance at winning the flag this year:

1. McCartin needs to stay fit.
2. McLean needs to pick up where he left off.
3. We need to at least double the amount of winners we had on the field in 2023.

Fingers crossed.

I don't really agree with this. The thing that excites me so much for this season is our depth. I really feel like we have enough depth to cover injuries to any player, including McCartin (and, hopefully, even Grundy). Of course, if we have injuries take out half a dozen of our tallest players again, we'll be up against it.

1. After our recruiting we have more KPDs who are ready to play than before. If you take our starting KPDs to be McCartin/Rampe/Hamling, then we still have Melican, Francis and Fox who are experienced and can step in (if they don't win a starting spot to start off with), plus Arnold and maybe Snell could step up in case of emergency. Blakey also gives us more aerial coverage and has learned to play KPD more if required to do so. This means I feel like we can deal with McCartin going down. I actually feel like Rampe would still be a bigger loss because he is the onfield general and (even though he's no longer quite the player he was) his discipline, guts, heart, and soul still provide an invaluable example to the defenders around him, in addition to his organisation of the defence.

2. I agree we need to see our young KPFs step up in the post-Buddy world but I don't think it comes down to any one of them. We pretty much have 6 players competing for 3 spots. If we take McDonald/McLean/Amartey as the starters then we have Reid/Ladhams/Buller ready to step in and fill a gap. The difference in the level of those players is not that much. Reid is arguably the best of all of them (although I'm backing Logan to go to another level this year). Ladhams is mercurial and I wouldn't select him unless Grundy goes down and it's to play first ruck because he's better as a ruck than as a forward. Buller looked not quite ready when thrown into seniors last season but he has the body and the craft, I think he just needs the tank and the confidence and experience playing with the others.

3. I have no idea what you mean by "winners" caesar88 ? I'm assuming you mean players? Weren't all the players "winners" when we won the games and losers when we lost? Or is this something about McRae's 'winner mentality' ethos?

Or do you mean 'matchwinners' - players capable of lifting the team on their backs and dragging us across the line to victory? 'Matchwinners' are a relatively rare commodity. Buddy could. Papley can. Heeney has. Chad has. Errol's is. Parker has in the past and hopefully still might. I'm hoping Adams is like Parker, only one year younger. Blakey has the potential. Barring Adams, they were all in the team last year so we probably can't say we have 'doubled' those players. But I guess, excepting Errol, they didn't turn in as many matchwinning performances last year as the year before (particularly Chad). Is that what you mean? I really don't know.

Anyway, I think stronger midfield performances combined with fewer injuries is what is going to get us back to the top.

 

[anotherletdown]

My use of the word "actually" means I am thinking about what I'm writing whilst I'm writing. That's the way I use it. I am mid thought before I have even composed the sentence or paragraph. I may not even have thought about the rest yet.

Actually is the word I use when a really good thought has just popped into my head that needs sharing.

.... it is normally followed closely by a sarcastic really, as my wife tells me that was obvious and she'd thought of it days ago.

 

[caesar88]

3. I have no idea what you mean by "winners" caesar88 ? I'm assuming you mean players? Weren't all the players "winners" when we won the games and losers when we lost? Or is this something about McRae's 'winner mentality' ethos?

Or do you mean 'matchwinners' - players capable of lifting the team on their backs and dragging us across the line to victory? 'Matchwinners' are a relatively rare commodity. Buddy could. Papley can. Heeney has. Chad has. Errol's is. Parker has in the past and hopefully still might. I'm hoping Adams is like Parker, only one year younger. Blakey has the potential. Barring Adams, they were all in the team last year so we probably can't say we have 'doubled' those players. But I guess, excepting Errol, they didn't turn in as many matchwinning performances last year as the year before (particularly Chad). Is that what you mean? I really don't know.

"Winners" was what my junior coach used to describe players who make things happen. Grand finals are won by a lot of players doing a lot of good things with the footy. To my eye watching us in 2023, and also based on some things I have heard through the grapevine, we just didn't have enough players being used in ways they could reliably make things happen and star for us.

I thought an emblematic aspect of our success in 2022 was that our "best player" seemed to change on an almost monthly basis. Early on it was Heeney when he was kicking bags, then Mills went to another level and became the best two-way mid in the comp. Paddy was the most dominant big man in our team for a stretch there. When Papley went into the midfield, commentators were calling him a top 10 player in the comp, but then Warner went on a tear to the point he started getting a tag. And the last several weeks were owned by Rowbottom. That was not including Parker, who had his best season in years, or our two AA nominees from this year Blakey and Gulden, who were still doing what they do best.

Is it any wonder we ended up the second-best team in the comp when we had so many players playing damaging footy and capable of starring on any given day?

Compare that to last year, and it felt like we'd pre-determined who our stars were going to be and it was everyone else's job to try and help them shine. All year we debated the continued selection of players like Hayward, Florent, Cunningham, Lloyd, Rowbottom, McInerney, Wicks etc. and people correctly justified it with, "They play an important role, they make things easier for our best players, they do the stuff you don't see, most of their work is done off the ball."

It's all true, but time after time when we needed more than just a ripping game from Gulden, Warner etc., we were found wanting. Rarely were there others ready to step up and star for us. It's how in Round 4 vs Port Adelaide, Warner can get 30 & 2 and we lose. Round 8 vs Collingwood, Gulden can get 37 and we lose. Round 9 vs Fremantle, Gulden can get 39 & 2 and we lose. Round 24 vs Melbourne, Gulden can get 42 & 2 and we lose.

We've ended up with a lot of players who are just kinda solid, nothing more. They don't impact games much. Something has gone wrong somewhere for this to be the case because a lot of those players mentioned did not start out this way. Either Beatson & co aren't drafting as well as we think they are, or Horse & co aren't coaching as well as we think they are.

Just my opinion.

 

[tombomb]

I have high hopes for Vickery, but I'm not expecting him to play seniors this year or even, necessarily, next.

Warner is definitely the best of those right now but whether that's good enough to win a spot in the senior team against the competition in the short-medium term, I'm just not sure.

Magor has a lot of talent but also a lot of unknown.

I've cooled a bit on Mitchell. I just haven't seen anything particular that excites me about him yet. I'll keep watching optimistically.



I don't really agree with this. The thing that excites me so much for this season is our depth. I really feel like we have enough depth to cover injuries to any player, including McCartin (and, hopefully, even Grundy). Of course, if we have injuries take out half a dozen of our tallest players again, we'll be up against it.

1. After our recruiting we have more KPDs who are ready to play than before. If you take our starting KPDs to be McCartin/Rampe/Hamling, then we still have Melican, Francis and Fox who are experienced and can step in (if they don't win a starting spot to start off with), plus Arnold and maybe Snell could step up in case of emergency. Blakey also gives us more aerial coverage and has learned to play KPD more if required to do so. This means I feel like we can deal with McCartin going down. I actually feel like Rampe would still be a bigger loss because he is the onfield general and (even though he's no longer quite the player he was) his discipline, guts, heart, and soul still provide an invaluable example to the defenders around him, in addition to his organisation of the defence.

2. I agree we need to see our young KPFs step up in the post-Buddy world but I don't think it comes down to any one of them. We pretty much have 6 players competing for 3 spots. If we take McDonald/McLean/Amartey as the starters then we have Reid/Ladhams/Buller ready to step in and fill a gap. The difference in the level of those players is not that much. Reid is arguably the best of all of them (although I'm backing Logan to go to another level this year). Ladhams is mercurial and I wouldn't select him unless Grundy goes down and it's to play first ruck because he's better as a ruck than as a forward. Buller looked not quite ready when thrown into seniors last season but he has the body and the craft, I think he just needs the tank and the confidence and experience playing with the others.

3. I have no idea what you mean by "winners" caesar88 ? I'm assuming you mean players? Weren't all the players "winners" when we won the games and losers when we lost? Or is this something about McRae's 'winner mentality' ethos?

Or do you mean 'matchwinners' - players capable of lifting the team on their backs and dragging us across the line to victory? 'Matchwinners' are a relatively rare commodity. Buddy could. Papley can. Heeney has. Chad has. Errol's is. Parker has in the past and hopefully still might. I'm hoping Adams is like Parker, only one year younger. Blakey has the potential. Barring Adams, they were all in the team last year so we probably can't say we have 'doubled' those players. But I guess, excepting Errol, they didn't turn in as many matchwinning performances last year as the year before (particularly Chad). Is that what you mean? I really don't know.

Anyway, I think stronger midfield performances combined with fewer injuries is what is going to get us back to the top.

I was quite taken with how fit Mitchell has looked in the preseason videos. I think he is going to be an absolute beast in a couple of years. Whether that equates to good football, we’ll see…

 

[Bandicoot]

At the end of the day, we start each season well behind the big Victorian clubs due to the fact that this competition is now all about the money that it can generate to the AFL itself. They want and need the likes of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond and Geelong to be successful as it draws people through the gate. This explains why the AFL turn a blind eye to the obvious salary cap breaches committed by Geelong, Carlton and others.
Consequently, we interstate clubs are always starting every year with a handicap before we even start talking about the huge advantage Collingwood have re the MCG and the disadvantage we have if playing a Victorian side in the Grand Final. Umpire bias is another story again.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

At the end of the day, we start each season well behind the big Victorian clubs due to the fact that this competition is now all about the money that it can generate to the AFL itself. They want and need the likes of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond and Geelong to be successful as it draws people through the gate. This explains why the AFL turn a blind eye to the obvious salary cap breaches committed by Geelong, Carlton and others.
Consequently, we interstate clubs are always starting every year with a handicap before we even start talking about the huge advantage Collingwood have re the MCG and the disadvantage we have if playing a Victorian side in the Grand Final. Umpire bias is another story again.

Not sure about the deliberate cap breaches and the AFL just looking away.

But yes those clubs all have advantages which have been done to death its just how it is and will be unless the competition breaks up.

Best cause of action is having strong interstate sides which increases the chance we will face a club on a level playing field on GF day.

 

[Bandicoot]

Not sure about the deliberate cap breaches and the AFL just looking away.

But yes those clubs all have advantages which have been done to death its just how it is and will be unless the competition breaks up.

Best cause of action is having strong interstate sides which increases the chance we will face a club on a level playing field on GF day.

I have absolutely no doubt Geelong abuse the salary cap. Similarly, when you look at the Carlton list with the free agency offers that were handed to Martin & Williams together with what they paid to Cerra to get him to the club. They had already overpaid for McGovern & Saad. Docherty, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Walsh & Weitering would all be on big money. I can't see how they fit them all into the salary cap.

 

[Del198236]

Consequently, we interstate clubs are always starting every year with a handicap before we even start talking about the huge advantage Collingwood have re the MCG and the disadvantage we have if playing a Victorian side in the Grand Final.

In Horses post match presser after 'Gather Round' last year.. He said about Gather Round, "hard to argue its not a resounding success, Would be fantastic in Sydney, We cant move the grand final ........."
A nice little (and classy) jab at the AFL

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I have absolutely no doubt Geelong abuse the salary cap. Similarly, when you look at the Carlton list with the free agency offers that were handed to Martin & Williams together with what they paid to Cerra to get him to the club. They had already overpaid for McGovern & Saad. Docherty, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Walsh & Weitering would all be on big money. I can't see how they fit them all into the salary cap.

Geelong is just weird what they are able to do i suspect they are using some clever loophole regarding property/jobs and sponsorships given to players wives or GF.

No sane player loves the club that much to play for 400-500k lmao regardless the dribble we hear about players "sacrificing" or taking "paycuts".

Carlton i think just heavily front load their contracts example Jack Martin was on a million per season for the first year or two.

 

[Bandicoot]

Geelong is just weird what they are able to do i suspect they are using some clever loophole regarding property/jobs and sponsorships given to players wives or GF.

No sane player loves the club that much to play for 400-500k lmao regardless the dribble we hear about players "sacrificing" or taking "paycuts".

Carlton i think just heavily front load their contracts example Jack Martin was on a million per season for the first year or two.

There's no doubt that Geelong players are receiving payment in other forms. Whether that be property, major home repairs/improvements and or wives earning substantial wages for minimal work. Most of this is provided by cotton- on, one of their major sponsors. This is still salary cap cheating yet the AFL refuse to investigate it.

 

[wolftone57]

I was quite taken with how fit Mitchell has looked in the preseason videos. I think he is going to be an absolute beast in a couple of years. Whether that equates to good football, we’ll see…

I think Mitchell has the physicality. But my question is on his skill level. I was a bit worried about some of his disposal. Years ago you could get away with being hadd at the footy & using it 50/50. But I think today's game calls for a far higher skill level. Would love to see the kid succeed as he has the physicality.

On CPH2471 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[wolftone57]

At the end of the day, we start each season well behind the big Victorian clubs due to the fact that this competition is now all about the money that it can generate to the AFL itself. They want and need the likes of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond and Geelong to be successful as it draws people through the gate. This explains why the AFL turn a blind eye to the obvious salary cap breaches committed by Geelong, Carlton and others.
Consequently, we interstate clubs are always starting every year with a handicap before we even start talking about the huge advantage Collingwood have re the MCG and the disadvantage we have if playing a Victorian side in the Grand Final. Umpire bias is another story again.

Agree

On CPH2471 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Callipygian]

At the end of the day, we start each season well behind the big Victorian clubs due to the fact that this competition is now all about the money that it can generate to the AFL itself. They want and need the likes of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond and Geelong to be successful as it draws people through the gate. This explains why the AFL turn a blind eye to the obvious salary cap breaches committed by Geelong, Carlton and others.
Consequently, we interstate clubs are always starting every year with a handicap before we even start talking about the huge advantage Collingwood have re the MCG and the disadvantage we have if playing a Victorian side in the Grand Final. Umpire bias is another story again.

I half agree. Yes, the competition is now a lot about the money it can generate, and that has just become an end in itself. But it's not so much about drawing people through the gates - it's all about the broadcast revenue which seems to dwarf all the other revenue streams combined. For that reason they actually need the audiences nationally not large attendances in Victoria and so it's not critical that the big Melbourne clubs are successful. However, they want that outcome too but more out of sentiment and bias.

I don't think the AFL scrutinises the member-owned clubs too closely if their revenue streams aren't jeopardised. And if there are problems they prefer to deal with them behind closed doors and with minimal external scrutiny.

 

[tombomb]

I have absolutely no doubt Geelong abuse the salary cap. Similarly, when you look at the Carlton list with the free agency offers that were handed to Martin & Williams together with what they paid to Cerra to get him to the club. They had already overpaid for McGovern & Saad. Docherty, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Walsh & Weitering would all be on big money. I can't see how they fit them all into the salary cap.

Respect the view, just think it is nonsense that Geelong would be doing anything that every other team would be trying to do.

Doesn't mean they don't have an advantage over teams like us in attracting players, also doesn't mean they are cheating.

 

[Bandicoot]

Respect the view, just think it is nonsense that Geelong would be doing anything that every other team would be trying to do.

Doesn't mean they don't have an advantage over teams like us in attracting players, also doesn't mean they are cheating.

They are in the very advantageous position that one of their major sponsors is a privately owned business. With the likes of QBE, Volkswagen and our other major sponsors being public companies, we can't do what Geelong does.

 

[tombomb]

They are in the very advantageous position that one of their major sponsors is a privately owned business. With the likes of QBE, Volkswagen and our other major sponsors being public companies, we can't do what Geelong does.

Just because we don't know what they are doing, doesn't mean they are cheating.

 

[mtooler]

We have a history of not drafting anyone into the backline.
They are all converted mids or from somewhere else.
Rampe
Lloyd
Cunningham
Florent
arguably Blakey
going back Nick Smith

So I am not worried about smalls in the backline. Even McInerney has played down back as a taller option. We have a history of converting mids to defenders.

And we have a lot of surplus mids wanting a home.

Very true, even applies to the tall defenders too, most I can think of started as tall forwards and floundered there. We used to joke on here that Longmire's success for Mccartin was "brining the ball to ground".