List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[knaf]

The Delistings and retirements I see at the end of the season are Lyons, Lane, Michael, Madden, Prior and Zorks. Offer Tunstill as a trade to West Coast. Thats 6 or 7, enough to draft and trade or even keep a cpl of the mid season draftees if they show potential.

Yes pretty similar to my thinking. Is Madden a cat B rookie? If so, and if delisted, could Joyce take the extra cat B spot. Allow us to keep someone in an extra rookie spot.

Just a comment on Kalin Lane, clearly behind Smith for the next ruck call up. I understand he can’t be rerookied as he has been on the list three years, but he is only young and could still develop. Pity we can’t lend him out to one of the non-affiliated vfl clubs for a couple of years as first ruck and see how he goes.

 

[Berrygood]

Yes pretty similar to my thinking. Is Madden a cat B rookie? If so, and if delisted, could Joyce take the extra cat B spot. Allow us to keep someone in an extra rookie spot.

Just a comment on Kalin Lane, clearly behind Smith for the next ruck call up. I understand he can’t be rerookied as he has been on the list three years, but he is only young and could still develop. Pity we can’t lend him out to one of the non-affiliated vfl clubs for a couple of years as first ruck and see how he goes.

Sign Lane as a Vfl player, keep him in our system. Probably the best way to keep an eye on his development. The Vfl players we seem to hold on to are academy graduates or relatives. Maybe we could use the Vfl only contracts a bit better in future. Hold on to a draftee that's needing more time. Someone like Lane, a young ruck or tall fwd or one of those positions that take time to develop instead of just delisting them. If they come on as players there's plenty of opportunity these days to draft them back onto the list.

 

[mpal6]

I think Beecken could be retained based on that one game and plus being older and Kidsy only coming back.

Craven looked a very odd selection to me, small, undersized and based off highlights and that one game (yes a very small sample size), I just don’t see how or why we would retain him.

Craven would be the type you'll bury in rookie or VFL for 2 years and hope he comes good eventually. We don't need him next year but he'd be perfect in 2-3 years time when we have a churn and Linc/Charlie are out. Slow burn type pick which makes sense.

 

[briztoon]

Sign Lane as a Vfl player, keep him in our system. Probably the best way to keep an eye on his development. The Vfl players we seem to hold on to are academy graduates or relatives. Maybe we could use the Vfl only contracts a bit better in future. Hold on to a draftee that's needing more time. Someone like Lane, a young ruck or tall fwd or one of those positions that take time to develop instead of just delisting them. If they come on as players there's plenty of opportunity these days to draft them back onto the list.

It's just not the same money at VFL level. And it's hard to see non QLD'ers sticking around. Next year AFL rookie listed players will receive $100k, then $105k in 2026, and $110k in 2027.

VFL salary cap for AFL clubs is $110k ($220k for no afl aligned clubs), compared to $245k in the WAFl or $147k for WC and Freo, and SANFL is a tier up again at $360k next year.

We've played anywhere from between 6 to 13 VFL listed players each week this year. Have to imagine there are quite a few beneficial "jobs" for quite a few of our VFL top ups from club sponsors or beneficiaries.

 

[knaf]

It's just not the same money at VFL level. And it's hard to see non QLD'ers sticking around. Next year AFL rookie listed players will receive $100k, then $105k in 2026, and $110k in 2027.

VFL salary cap for AFL clubs is $110k ($220k for no afl aligned clubs), compared to $245k in the WAFl or $147k for WC and Freo, and SANFL is a tier up again at $360k next year.

We've played anywhere from between 6 to 13 VFL listed players each week this year. Have to imagine there are quite a few beneficial "jobs" for quite a few of our VFL top ups from club sponsors or beneficiaries.

I agree with all this, but the real issue for Lane is that if he stayed as a vfl top up he wouldn’t get the first ruck role. Fort and Smith will get used first. The whole time he has been here he has been third fourth and even fifth choice. His best game, was a few weeks ago when Smith was injured and Fort must have been travelling emergency. Not saying he was great, but he showed a bit.

Needs time with first ruck responsibilities in a vfl level environment. I doubt it will happen here.

 

[mpal6]

I agree with all this, but the real issue for Lane is that if he stayed as a vfl top up he wouldn’t get the first ruck role. Fort and Smith will get used first. The whole time he has been here he has been third fourth and even fifth choice. His best game, was a few weeks ago when Smith was injured and Fort must have been travelling emergency. Not saying he was great, but he showed a bit.

Needs time with first ruck responsibilities in a vfl level environment. I doubt it will happen here.

More than likely Lane will go end of this year and we'll get a new speculative ruck off the draft list. If Tom Gillett steps up to be that ruck, then he gets the spot or else we'll get some other promising 18 year old.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Brandon Ryan should get time in the ruck as well

 

[mpal6]

Brandon Ryan should get time in the ruck as well

I've seen him a couple of times so far. This looks like our hail mary after Gunston decided to leave and we needed some 3rd tall cover. Ryan is 26/27 and has a 3 year contract so ruck may be worth a try.

 

[pod17]

I didn’t see the VFL game this week, but its seems from the commentary on here that Beecken was a cut above. Exciting if we could unlock a Durham.
Don’t agree that Zorko will or should retire. He’s likely leading our best and fairest and so long as he continues to perform, he stays. Coleman and Doedee might take time to return to their best (if ever for Doedee, who with 3 ACLs may struggle to play regular senior football now - I can’t think of many who have had sustained output after that many knees). Therefore, Zorko’s ability to rebound out of half back and play further up the field when needed make him a must to retain despite his age.

 

[buttermuffs]

Craven would be the type you'll bury in rookie or VFL for 2 years and hope he comes good eventually. We don't need him next year but he'd be perfect in 2-3 years time when we have a churn and Linc/Charlie are out. Slow burn type pick which makes sense.

With Brain as a halfback now it’s good that we have a bit more small forward depth with McLachlan and Craven.

Gives us Cameron, McCarthy, Lohmann, Ah Chee, Craven, McLachlan there with some versatility among them.

They mentioned on the draft night that Beecken could play on the wing as well. Any chance he could break into that wing rotation for Reville or Fletcher?

 

[CarterS]

Unless theres a big drop off I'd be surprised if Zorko doesn't go around again for 25.

 

[Dalions]

Unless theres a big drop off I'd be surprised if Zorko doesn't go around again for 25.

I do like the idea for Zorko to be used predominantly as sub in 2025.
A little like the way Mitchell is using Luke Breust.
Especially once Kiddy is ready to go next year.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Unless theres a big drop off I'd be surprised if Zorko doesn't go around again for 25.

Should finish on a high as far as personal performance and give responsibility to the kids.

Kiddy will take his spot in the backline and we have other options down there

Similarly with Kai locking in a spot in the forwardline there isn't really room for him there either

 

[CarterS]

Should finish on a high as far as personal performance and give responsibility to the kids.

Kiddy will take his spot in the backline and we have other options down there

Similarly with Kai locking in a spot in the forwardline there isn't really room for him there either

He's been great this year. I'd love to see a metres gained stat for the whole comp because I reckon Zorko would be right up there. Been our best in that category nearly every game this season.

 

[Nathan Barley]

He's been great this year. I'd love to see a metres gained stat for the whole comp because I reckon Zorko would be right up there. Been our best in that category nearly every game this season.

21st in the AFL. Best for us but taking most of the kick ins help. For comparison Rich averaged 540 last year

 

[Nathan Barley]

We've also been far worse at scoring from defensive rebounds this year

As good as Zorko has been its been a step backwards

 

[Tom14]

We've also been far worse at scoring from defensive rebounds this year

As good as Zorko has been its been a step backwards

I'd retain him for next year if he wants to go on, if only for depth/cover. But the drop off from kiddy to zork is pretty big.

 

[Section 5]

Brandon Ryan should get time in the ruck as well

They may give him a go in the ruck at some stage but i just don't see that working.
He was the slowest player pre-season struggling to keep up with Lane.
Oscar was so far ahead of them both it was not funny.
This was my biggest knock on Ryan.
His VFL games have shown this is still the case. His one AFL game is forgettable.
Strange that he is fairly quick when leading though and is a good mark. Being 200cm helps with that.

 

[Nathan Barley]

They may give him a go in the ruck at some stage but i just don't see that working.
He was the slowest player pre-season struggling to keep up with Lane.
Oscar was so far ahead of them both it was not funny.
This was my biggest knock on Ryan.
His VFL games have shown this is still the case. His one AFL game is forgettable.
Strange that he is fairly quick when leading though and is a good mark. Being 200cm helps with that.

More thinking as a kpf/ruck relief

 

[Section 5]

He's been great this year. I'd love to see a metres gained stat for the whole comp because I reckon Zorko would be right up there. Been our best in that category nearly every game this season.

Snuck in the top 20. Best for the Lions.
I used averages as some have played more games than others

 

[martinson]

I absolutely love Zorks as people know but unless he really starts tearing it up I'd prefer him to finish up at the end of the year . We have lots of options in the positions he could play and the end may come quickly . Mind you I was thinking that way last year.

But obviously he's earnt the right to another year if he wants it and if his body holds up conceivably he could be a lethal sub if we needed a spark in big games.

We'll likely leave it up to him if he's fit and well into 2025.

 

[martinson]

Martin, do you think he could work as a sub next year with the occasional full game or in your experience with guys at Zorkos age, when the cliff hits, it comes pretty quick, hence why you think it could be curtains this year?

He's still able to be a good player and impact games well when his body's right but if he's carrying something or has to pick up someone younger ,stronger and nearly as quick he becomes a liability.

I have to admit some surprise at how well he's gone this year but I still think the end is nigh. The test would be across 4 quarters in a finals like match.

I don't much see the point of having someone on your list to be a sub , but if we were in finals contention this year would be the year to do it.

I hate saying all this and only too happy to be wrong so let's see what unfolds for the rest of the year.

 

[M Malice]

IF we happen to win the whole shebang this year I'd be almost certain Zork's will call it a day... if we don't and he gets through the rest of the season with his body still in good shape I expect he'd want 1 more crack at the ultimate in footy.

Been a remarkable career and even better considering he didn't debut until he was 23 years of age.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

IF we happen to win the whole shebang this year I'd be almost certain Zork's will call it a day... if we don't and he gets through the rest of the season with his body still in good shape I expect he'd want 1 more crack at the ultimate in footy.

Been a remarkable career and even better considering he didn't debut until he was 23 years of age.

Dunno, I think the competitive juices flow too strongly for him to give it up just yet, flag or no flag. An injury-free year and he's playing near his best footy.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don't much see the point of having someone on your list to be a sub , but if we were in finals contention this year would be the year to do it.

How come? We have to have a sub, and putting the same versatile player there every week makes for a consistent game plan and adaptation. I think Zorks still has a lot to offer, I just wouldn't trust him to play the full four quarters every week next season.