List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[briztoon]

briztoon just want more draft & trding

Honestly, I’d rather we win a flag or three, but in lieu of…

 

[rye]

QLD was producing kids before the academy existed.

Beams, Zorko, Riewoldt, and I’m sure there’s more that I don’t know, because I’ve only been around since 2013. Someone else mentioned Voss.

Ben Keays, Jack Bowes, Jasper Fletcher, were all coached by their dads.

I’m sure they all would have made the State rep teams wether the academies existed or not.

QLD has had positive migration numbers for as long as I can remember. Numbers fluctuate.

A quick google search shows in the early 00’s, we experienced between 20,000 to 30,000+ each year.

3412.0 - Migration, Australia, 2011-12 and 2012-13

www.abs.gov.au

The fallacy I was talking about, is that our academy is growing the game in QLD, i.e attracting new kids to the sport.

My assertion is that this is not the case, because most of the kids making it to the AFL already come from a footy background.

And most of the successful kids up here come from families that migrated from WA or VIC when they were kids. That’s actually a fact. As I said, the only two I couldn’t find their birth state for, were Ballenden and Payne.

think its pretty easy to make an argument that a lack of a true professional pathway into AFL may have been the reason zorko went undrafted as an 18 year old... on talent he is easily a top 10 pick in his draft year and one of the best queensland football talents of all time yet was passed over in multiple drafts

and i think your method of analysing whether the academies are contributing to growing the game at grassroots level in queensland is poor. most kids who go on to become professional athletes have a strong push from their parents to do so. it would makes sense that many of them have parents who are invested in AFL. this does not capture how the academies may contribute to things that are difficult to measure such as retaining interest in local clubs and growing TV audiences. its about gradually increasing market share through providing a valid pathway to the elite level which should increase interest and participation in the sport at all levels. i think the popularity of aflw in queensland may in part be a testimony to this.

 

[briztoon]

been reading the norf board?

lol, no. I rarely venture there. The chip on the shoulder there is a bit much for me to handle.

 

[rye]

lol, no. I rarely venture there. The chip on the shoulder there is a bit much for me to handle.

fwiw they want all academies abolished because theyre still crying over blakey choosing sydney over them

 

[Denno]

I would like to see the evidence of a Northern Club that is flat out unbeatable due to their Academy talent.
It’s an over reaction from the big VIC clubs because of GC draft last year.
And any rise of the Suns may, just guessing, be partially because of the countless first round talent that they already have on their list via other AFL handouts and from being so s**t for so long.

Also no different the GWS scaring the s**t out of the competition many years ago due to their academy borders and the VIC Clubs and media crying about it until a change was made.

Started before that, didn't it ? Wasn't there changes (bidding system?) after Sydney got Heeney and Mills in successive drafts?

Typical pro-Vic, myopic view. Get sick of reading of players wanting to "come home", like it's a right of passage. NGA's are a joke too (which were another knee-jerk reaction to appease the Vic clubs).

I'm really hoping, in time, as someone else here may have mentioned, that Damien Hardwick makes some noise at some point about the local challenges. Might just get people to sit up and think.

 

[M Malice]

QLD was producing kids before the academy existed.

Beams, Zorko, Riewoldt, and I’m sure there’s more that I don’t know, because I’ve only been around since 2013. Someone else mentioned Voss.

Ben Keays, Jack Bowes, Jasper Fletcher, were all coached by their dads.

I’m sure they all would have made the State rep teams wether the academies existed or not.

QLD has had positive migration numbers for as long as I can remember. Numbers fluctuate.

A quick google search shows in the early 00’s, we experienced between 20,000 to 30,000+ each year.

3412.0 - Migration, Australia, 2011-12 and 2012-13

www.abs.gov.au

The fallacy I was talking about, is that our academy is growing the game in QLD, i.e attracting new kids to the sport.

My assertion is that this is not the case, because most of the kids making it to the AFL already come from a footy background.

And most of the successful kids up here come from families that migrated from WA or VIC when they were kids. That’s actually a fact. As I said, the only two I couldn’t find their birth state for, were Ballenden and Payne.

eg. Former Coorparoo legend Jason Dunstall.

 

[martinson]

A story I’d never heard before until recently was that Dunstall tried out at Fitzroy along with Scott McIvor. A Fitzroy official apparently said we’ll keep the skinny one (McIvor) and the fat one (Dunstall) can go. Geez, and this is an extraordinarily long bow perhaps, but if Dunstall had have been kept by, just maybe Fitzroy would still be in existence today. But then again, maybe without those great Hawks players of that generation contributing to Dunstalls success, he doesn’t become the legend he became.

It's true.

 

[Viceregal]

get used to multiple Grand Finals featuring the Giants and Suns....

Wasn't this supposed to happen a decade ago ... good to know that they can reuse the same predictions when they didn't come true the first time ... actually if they end up completely failing as sports journalists (cough) they have enough of a track record of failure to be economomists, apocolyptic preachers, or climate 'scientists'!

 

[AFLQLD]

Good news that Shadeau is locked in for a couple more years! Sometimes the unheralded signings end up being the important ones further down the road.

 

[scoman]

Good news that Shadeau is locked in for a couple more years! Sometimes the unheralded signings end up being the important ones further down the road.

Indeed. Just got to find a way to get him into the team.

 

[briztoon]

think its pretty easy to make an argument that a lack of a true professional pathway into AFL may have been the reason zorko went undrafted as an 18 year old... on talent he is easily a top 10 pick in his draft year and one of the best queensland football talents of all time yet was passed over in multiple drafts

and i think your method of analysing whether the academies are contributing to growing the game at grassroots level in queensland is poor. most kids who go on to become professional athletes have a strong push from their parents to do so. it would makes sense that many of them have parents who are invested in AFL. this does not capture how the academies may contribute to things that are difficult to measure such as retaining interest in local clubs and growing TV audiences. its about gradually increasing market share through providing a valid pathway to the elite level which should increase interest and participation in the sport at all levels. i think the popularity of aflw in queensland may in part be a testimony to this.

I haven’t mentioned anything about grass roots football, and that’s certainly not a role for the academy.

Grass roots football feeds in to club football and local league football.

If you were to jump on to the QLD Football forum on BigFooty, and jump in to the QAFL thread, you’d experience a pretty big backlash about our academy.

Most posters there blame our academy for an increased drop out rate of kids between colts and reserve/league football.

And most of the posters there are QAFL club presidents, ex-presidents, board members, coaches, colts coaches, etc. they’re all involved in local footy, and to a man believe the academies have a negative impact on retention rates post Colts football.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Pike’s Falcons teammate Liam Kershaw started strongly and showcased his elite ball-use on the outside, going at 83 per cent efficiency from his 18 disposals, and also tallying eight marks, five inside 50s and five tackles.

Kershaw was among the players to catch the eye of Vic Country’s coach Paul Corrigan, who is also the coach of the Falcons, having seen him excel first-hand in his over-age campaign.

“I thought Kershaw was really good on the wing, I thought he just played his wing really well – pretty similar to what he does at Coates League at the Falcons for us in holding his channel,” Corrigan said.

“He was covering exits really well, he was also getting a lot of ball in hand, holding his width as well which was impressive.”

Sandringham Zebras wingman Tarkyn O’Leary and Eastern Ranges forward-wingman Ry Cantwell also kicked two majors, with O’Leary hitting the target with 13 of his 16 disposals.

Couple of interesting prospects who performed well at the Young Guns vs Vic Country game, if we're chasing an outside player with kicking skills.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft/afl-draft-2024-top-performers-from-young-guns-clash-against-vic-country/news-story/9b61dfb8ed08e1d36a363c5e06eaca3e

 

[M Malice]

Haven't seen Shadeau in the media before, speaks well, very focused individual.

 

[Nunez]

Haven't seen Shadeau in the media before, speaks well, very focused individual.

No way he'd have been drafted without the academy.

 

[martinson]

Haven't seen Shadeau in the media before, speaks well, very focused individual.

Well spoken young lad and the thing to really like is that he's improving in leaps and bounds with a year in the system which is always a good sign that you've found a player.

Some are there for 4 or 5 years and you're always waiting for them to come good.

 

[Section 5]

Link to the site is at the bottom of the comment.
You can click on a player, and it will take you to their AFL/VFL playing record.
....................................................................................................................................

Over the years, Queensland has produced an array of talent for elite leagues such as the Australian Football League, such as Jason Dunstall, Marcus Ashcroft, Michael Voss, Gavin Crosisca, Scott McIvor, Simon Black, Jason Akermanis, Nick Riewoldt, Danny Dickfos, Mitch Hahn, Dayne Beams, Kurt Tippett, Jarrod Harbrow, David Hale, Sam Gilbert, Daniel Merrett, Che Cockatoo-Collins, Steven Lawrence, Clark Keating, Jamie Charman, Brett Voss, Brad Miller, Mal Michael, Ben Hudson, Matthew Kennedy, David Armitage and Robert Copeland.



AFL players currently on an AFL list and past players

Far too many to copy so link to the site.
Includes AFLW

Australian rules football in Queensland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dlanod]

The fallacy I was talking about, is that our academy is growing the game in QLD, i.e attracting new kids to the sport.

My assertion is that this is not the case, because most of the kids making it to the AFL already come from a footy background.

And most of the successful kids up here come from families that migrated from WA or VIC when they were kids. That’s actually a fact. As I said, the only two I couldn’t find their birth state for, were Ballenden and Payne.

The bit you quoted, bolded, and disputed said "Without us funding and running the academies many of these prospects don’t exist in the AFL system." I was just pointing out that your response detailing players' family history really doesn't counter that at all. It's interesting, but not relevant to that. They probably would have still played Aussie Rules as a sport, but it's unlikely non-elite talents like Keays or Payne or Dawson or Buzza or any of the other dozens of academy graduates who have made the AFL would actually made it to the league (even for as short a period of time as Dawson) based off the sheer weight of history of Queensland draftees in the decade prior to the academy.

 

[jjami15]

I haven’t mentioned anything about grass roots football, and that’s certainly not a role for the academy.

Grass roots football feeds in to club football and local league football.

If you were to jump on to the QLD Football forum on BigFooty, and jump in to the QAFL thread, you’d experience a pretty big backlash about our academy.

Most posters there blame our academy for an increased drop out rate of kids between colts and reserve/league football.

And most of the posters there are QAFL club presidents, ex-presidents, board members, coaches, colts coaches, etc. they’re all involved in local footy, and to a man believe the academies have a negative impact on retention rates post Colts football.

I think you’ll find that this has always been happening. You go from Colts which is a serious program to ‘proper football’ and bigger bodies, training and expectation. Plus also add in the fact that they’ve just turned 18, they can go out, socialise, chase girls (figuratively) and their eyes are open to the world. I wouldn’t say retention rates have been an issue since the academy.

 

[Donald Trump]

I need a second opinion.

Donald Trump

Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest - and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault

 

[scoman]

The bit you quoted, bolded, and disputed said "Without us funding and running the academies many of these prospects don’t exist in the AFL system." I was just pointing out that your response detailing players' family history really doesn't counter that at all. It's interesting, but not relevant to that. They probably would have still played Aussie Rules as a sport, but it's unlikely non-elite talents like Keays or Payne or Dawson or Buzza or any of the other dozens of academy graduates who have made the AFL would actually made it to the league (even for as short a period of time as Dawson) based off the sheer weight of history of Queensland draftees in the decade prior to the academy.

Isn't there less Queenslanders in the AFL now then there were 10-15 years ago? Something like 33 in 2023 and 45 in 2013 and 50 in 2008?
In 2006 for example there were 11 players drafted from Queensland.

 

[briztoon]

Indeed. Just got to find a way to get him into the team.

Sack Fagan....

 

[briztoon]

I think you’ll find that this has always been happening. You go from Colts which is a serious program to ‘proper football’ and bigger bodies, training and expectation. Plus also add in the fact that they’ve just turned 18, they can go out, socialise, chase girls (figuratively) and their eyes are open to the world. I wouldn’t say retention rates have been an issue since the academy.

I agree with that, and that's often been a counter argument in discussions on the QAFL board. But listen to the posters on there, and they all blame the academies for ruining local footy. And now the VFL as well.

 

[briztoon]

Isn't there less Queenslanders in the AFL now then there were 10-15 years ago? Something like 33 in 2023 and 45 in 2013 and 50 in 2008?
In 2006 for example there were 11 players drafted from Queensland.

That doesn't match with the academy discussion, so I'm interested if you'll get a reply.

 

[dlanod]

Isn't there less Queenslanders in the AFL now then there were 10-15 years ago? Something like 33 in 2023 and 45 in 2013 and 50 in 2008?
In 2006 for example there were 11 players drafted from Queensland.

I don't know the overall totals across the league (especially with the list reductions), but 2006 was a freak year.

2004 was three plus two rookies.
2005 was five.
2007 was 3 plus 2 rookies.
2008 was 2 plus 2 rookies.
2009 and on there were Gold Coast zone picks so actual results are a bit deceptive but a lot of those washed out quite quickly. Only four can really lay claim to a decent career.
2010 and on there were academies.

 

[scoman]

I don't know the overall totals across the league (especially with the list reductions), but 2006 was a freak year.

2004 was three plus two rookies.
2005 was five.
2007 was 3 plus 2 rookies.
2008 was 2 plus 2 rookies.
2009 and on there were Gold Coast zone picks so actual results are a bit deceptive but a lot of those washed out quite quickly. Only four can really lay claim to a decent career.
2010 and on there were academies.

Yes 2006 was a bumper year, but that's still 30 players drafted in 5 years between 2004 and 2009. There wouldn't have been that many in any 5 year period since the academies began. The idea that the Academies have boosted numbers is, unfortunately, a fallacy. The only thing it has done is give us and the GC first crack.