List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Perrip]

Isn't it picks and list spots or whatever?

There was a rule the AFL had prior to 2020 that you could only take as many picks to the draft as you had list spots, but that got scrapped in 2020 - AFL makes changes to draft points system.

It also wasn't in place for the 2023 draft because we had 6 draft picks for 5 open list spots - What is the state of your club’s list ahead of the AFL draft?

 

[Sauce Merrett]

Everyone can chill, there is no way we have done this unless there is something else lined up to result in a net increase of points.

 

[M Malice]

Dom Ambrogio >

 

[Tom14]

Has the AFL brought that rule back? Was looking for it over the weekend and couldn't find anything since they scrapped it in 2020.

It definitely has been in place. They lifted it temporarily in 2020 because of the reduction on list sizes, everyone has been operating with it back in since then.

 

[buttermuffs]

Unless there's a trade target we're eyeing off & we needed a pick in the 20s to get it done.

Good point Bont seems pretty disgruntled and 27 should get it done.


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[Perrip]

It definitely has been in place. They lifted it temporarily in 2020 because of the reduction on list sizes, everyone has been operating with it back in since then.

Fair enough, cheers for the confirmation. Was trying to find it on the weekend but couldn't find anything.

 

[SL16]

Because as it stands, it would be removed because we don't have enough list spots to utilise it - we'd be stuck with 32, 34, 42 and 43 (pending other trades). 45 would even come into play before it.

Is this actually a thing? Never heard of this rule.

 

[Fatcat08]

There was a rule the AFL had prior to 2020 that you could only take as many picks to the draft as you had list spots, but that got scrapped in 2020 - AFL makes changes to draft points system.

It also wasn't in place for the 2023 draft because we had 6 draft picks for 5 open list spots - What is the state of your club’s list ahead of the AFL draft?

That scrapping of the rule was a one season only event. Went back to normal the next year

 

[Elixuh]

Hmm because this trade loses us draft points and I don't understand it, I respectfully ask that Chris Fagan be sacked.

 

[Fatcat08]

Is this actually a thing? Never heard of this rule.

Yep been in for ages now. Was designed to stop clubs taking into the draft a tonne of low picks to get a first round academy pick

 

[braddsey]

Charlie seems to have lost a yard in one on ones . Whether there was some reason for that and he gets it back or whether he morphs into another role where he can be effective for the team such as the back half of this year we shall see.

Honestly think he down on form also did a lot of defensive stuff I think after Linc went down
Scoring shots alone not much difference although he missed a lot more in 2024
2024 74 , 2023 86, 2022 75, 2021 88 and 2019 89
I do think Joe became our #1 target although we spread it around.
Even if you look at GF 4 goals to Kia and Cal.. Where used to be Charlie or bust some games.

I tend to agree, Charlie looks to have lost a half a yard of pace in the F50.. but this could be a result of not having Linc up there doing particular defensive things. My observation on Charlie being down on form was his lack of confidence in front of goal, where previously he was rock solid. Having said that he played through it and the from the bye he played very well and found other ways to contribute. Perhaps his tribunal incidents didn't help (and his teeth issue), or he covered more ground resulting in fatigue that seems to effect many modern forwards. Or as pointed out to others, did the team thing more regularly which ultimately provided the right outcome.

He's got plenty of great football ahead!

 

[SizeMatters]

Not ideal. But I’d suspect it’s a bit of reduction in picks as per the list spot to pick ratio rules and we may also have a trade target in mind.

Think we’ll package this pick up with a player wanting out to accrue more points than we just lost.

 

[Nathan Barley]

We can move Prior and others to the rookie list to open a spot?

 

[Tom14]

Fair enough, cheers for the confirmation. Was trying to find it on the weekend but couldn't find anything.

It's hard to look back and confirm it has been in place because on draft night you can trade in as many draft picks as you want. So the final result on draft trackers is often more 'picks' than list spots, particularly for teams matching bids.

 

[dlanod]

Is this actually a thing? Never heard of this rule.

Yes. Been the case for a very long time now. As Tom14 mentions, it was temporarily suspended during COVID with the list size changes but it's back in place now. It's the reason we did a trade with NM last year for a bunch of picks on draft day - the rules change then, and you can have as many picks as you want so NM banked them for us.

 

[dlanod]

It's hard to look back and confirm it has been in place because on draft night you can trade in as many draft picks as you want. So the final result on draft trackers is often more 'picks' than list spots, particularly for teams matching bids.

Usually the AFL publishes a final order the week of the draft, but it requires a fair bit of Google-fu to get that each year. I've had to dig it up every now and again to compare academy pricings, etc.

 

[Tom14]

Usually the AFL publishes a final order the week of the draft, but it requires a fair bit of Google-fu to get that each year. I've had to dig it up every now and again to compare academy pricings, etc.

Max Laughton usually has a fairly comprehensive tracker too, that doesn't remove passed picks like the AFL website does. Still a pain to work out.

 

[dlanod]

We can move Prior and others to the rookie list to open a spot?

Because senior lists and rookie lists are so fluid (there's always a two spot flexible overlap available, and moving players back and forth is easier these days) I treat available list spots as a combination of senior and Category A - so Lane, Michael, Daniher and Lyons all count towards the openings.

 

[knaf]

Just to show what a great club we are, helping Saints out? Saints chairs whinge having an effect?

 

[Section 5]

Lyons, Daniher, Michael, Madden, Lane out.

McLachlan and Beecken in.

That's a net three spots so far, with Sharp, Prior, Dev and Craven unaccounted for.

Before this trade that meant we'd be losing 43, 45 and two picks in the 60s because of insufficient list spots - obviously that's not going to ultimately be the case, but TBD. If we keep Craven (I suspect we'd have delisted him if we weren't looking to keep him) and trade out the other three, they're also bringing in draft picks.

Because of how generous the Richmond trade was, we basically need to package up some picks otherwise they're going to be cancelled out. So while we might lose 228 points here, it probably keeps a pick in the 40s active down the track. This is clearly a trade we can only consider in the context of the whole draft period - basically, we want to deal enough picks to have enough points for Ashcroft and Marshall.

I sometimes get a little lost at this time of year.
I get you can only use picks in the draft in relation to your list spots.

Could we not pick up McLachlan and Beecken should we want them in the rookie draft.
Our salary cap should easily allow us to cover moving McKenna & Lester to the primary list
Could also delist Prior with the understanding we pick him up. But maybe we have other plans for him

 

[braddsey]

I found https://www.draftguru.com.au/ this year. Seems right on top of it all.

Draft Pick Calculator (for those struggling with their spreadsheets)
2024 Indicative Draft Order
2025 Indicative Draft Order (though their points for 2025 isn't correct - it's the 2024 points value)

..and points table 2024 & 2025 (from here AFL news):

 

[Tom14]

OK - new conspiracy theory on the saints pick swap.

Wink wink nudge nudge, don't bid on Marshall with your second first round pick? Which by all accounts is one that is currently up for trade?

 

[dlanod]

I sometimes get a little lost at this time of year.
I get you can only use picks in the draft in relation to your list spots.

Could we not pick up McLachlan and Beecken should we want them in the rookie draft.

McLachlan is already contracted as a rookie. He can't be delisted.
Beecken is also already on our list. We can delist him and take him in the rookie draft if we want, but any club has the whole of the National, PSD and Rookie drafts to take him before us.

Our salary cap should easily allow us to cover moving McKenna & Lester to the primary list
Could also delist Prior with the understanding we pick him up. But maybe we have other plans for him

Pretty sure if we delist Prior he'll walk to Essendon by the sounds of it. I think we'd like to keep him, but not send him through the draft.

The thing is we don't have a bunch of rookie spots spare either. Senior and rookie lists have an automatically flexible two spots you can move between them so unless we open up a third(and bearing in mind we're currently overflowing with rookies because of the MSD picks) there's no benefit to move players from the senior list to the rookie list.

 

[braddsey]

McLachlan is already contracted as a rookie. He can't be delisted.
Beecken is also already on our list. We can delist him and take him in the rookie draft if we want, but any club has the whole of the National, PSD and Rookie drafts to take him before us.

Pretty sure if we delist Prior he'll walk to Essendon by the sounds of it. I think we'd like to keep him, but not send him through the draft.

The thing is we don't have a bunch of rookie spots spare either. Senior and rookie lists have an automatically flexible two spots you can move between them so unless we open up a third(and bearing in mind we're currently overflowing with rookies because of the MSD picks) there's no benefit to move players from the senior list to the rookie list.

Damn us and our premiership winning team. It now makes total sense that we had to squeeze Joe out.

 

[mpal6]

Saints might swap back with us after draft starts