List Mgmt. 2024 List Mgmt

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ScrappyDo

ScrappyDo

Norm Smith Medallist
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Mar 29, 2018
8,697
26,163
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AFL Club
St Kilda
Too soon?

As our resident bird_man has flown the coop and there's not much else on, may as well get going on where this is at.

Seems like we're hitting crunch point with delistees this year with only Allison being directly in the gun and the next tier down is Pato, Hayes and TC.
After that we're losing some proper good football players as none of the 2021-22 kids seem likely to be let go.
After this year we might not need to retire anyone till 2026/27 and we'll be on the up. Good times ahead.
 
Big year for Max Heath.

RoMa will be 29 at the end of the year and we can't keep relying on him to ruck 90% of games, 25+ weeks of the year.

If Heath is still off the mark then I could see us making a play for someone to come in and split time.
 
L_W_P said:
RoMa will be 29 at the end of the year and we can't keep relying on him to ruck 90% of games, 25+ weeks of the year.
Click to expand...
Is this a thing?

Honestly don’t keep tabs on most ruckmen, due to the fact 80% of the gimps get games just for being tall, but don’t quite a few continue to play as main banana after 30?

Witts, Goldstein, Gawn, Lycett, Grundy (if he didn’t request that silly trade) all come to mind.
 

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ScrappyDo said:
Too soon?

As our resident bird_man has flown the coop and there's not much else on, may as well get going on where this is at.

Seems like we're hitting crunch point with delistees this year with only Allison being directly in the gun and the next tier down is Pato, Hayes and TC.
After that we're losing some proper good football players as none of the 2021-22 kids seem likely to be let go.
After this year we might not need to retire anyone till 2026/27 and we'll be on the up. Good times ahead.
Click to expand...

Hopefully Ross, Webster and Jones are also under the pump this year with some others coming through the ranks.
 
Dard Ball Get said:
Is this a thing?

Honestly don’t keep tabs on most ruckmen, due to the fact 80% of the gimps get games just for being tall, but don’t quite a few continue to play as main banana after 30?

Witts, Goldstein, Gawn, Lycett, Grundy (if he didn’t request that silly trade) all come to mind.
Click to expand...

Witts yep
Goldstein yep
Gawn - Split time with Jackson and Grundy until the back end of last year.
Lycett - Dixon, Finlayson, missed games...
Grundy - Cameron/Cox, Gawn

Not very often teams roll with a single ruck playing such a high % of game time across the season.

If King/Hammer/Sharman/Cordy etc aren't able to take centre bounces, and we aren't going to rotate Campbell into the team to give RoMa a rest, then we need Heath to step up as that forward ruck in a big way.
 
Murraj1966 said:
Hopefully we have one last meaningful crack at Bing just to see if we can get him on the Ross train.

If GC falter again and we play finals he's OOC so it's probably the best time now to try and go for a big push.
Click to expand...
Tough one to judge now with Hammer on our list.
Could move on Batts and Doogs for a couple or mid range picks but that's all a bit extreme and we're probably better to wait and let that situation take care of itself.
Bing has to ask for a trade to StKilda anyway. Without that there's no point having a crack at him since others will pay him more.
 
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I believe a club is only required to move on 3 players a season? I'm hoping we make the minimum number of changes (unless there's a bunch of guns that are nominating to come to us and we need to clear spots for them).

Most likely gone

Allison
Paton
Campbell
McLennan

Good chance to be moved on

Ross (respectfully, i hope he's forced out by the improvement of Windy, Dow, Owens, Byrnes, Wilson, Pou, Hotton etc)
Jones (unless he can prove his injuries are under control)
Hayes (same as Jones)
Webster (Simply an age factor and possible growth of Stocker, Paton, Hastie, Bonner, McLennan etc)
Howard (don't want to lose him, especially for nothing but just have a feeling he might move on)
Membrey (same as Howard, only more devastating personally)

Moderate to low chance

Battle (just because of trade rumours)
Stocker (was surprised he had to wait so long for a contract extension. Hope we extend him for a couple this year)
Heath (doesn't make sense to drop him so early on. I suspect he'll get a modest extension)
Bonner (DFA's tend to only get a year more often than not. Hope he has a good season and hangs around)
Hotton (will need to show a fair bit of improvement but I have some faith he'll get a modest extension)
Byrnes (same as Hotton but with more credits in the bank)

No chance to be moved on

Sharman (can't wait for him this season. Seems like Membrey's spot is his for the taking)
Butler (You'd think he'd be one of the earliest announcements this year)
Keeler (Surely wasn't drafted to just watch for 2 years. Needs time and should get an extension)
Van Es (same as Keeler)
Wood (gun)
Phillipou (Sign up immediately please. 4 year deal)

FYI, below is the list of OOC players for 2024.

Angus McLennan NFA
Ben Paton NFA
Cooper Sharman NFA
Daniel Butler NFA
Dougal Howard NFA
Isaac Keeler NFA
Jack Hayes NFA
James Van Es NFA
Jimmy Webster UFA
Josh Battle RFA
Liam Stocker UFA
Mason Wood NFA
Mattaes Phillipou NFA
Matthew Allison NFA
Max Heath NFA
Olli Hotton NFA
Riley Bonner UFA
Ryan Byrnes NFA
Sebastian Ross UFA
Tim Membrey UFA
Tom Campbell UFA
Zak Jones NFA
 
ScrappyDo said:
Too soon?

As our resident bird_man has flown the coop and there's not much else on, may as well get going on where this is at.

Seems like we're hitting crunch point with delistees this year with only Allison being directly in the gun and the next tier down is Pato, Hayes and TC.
After that we're losing some proper good football players as none of the 2021-22 kids seem likely to be let go.
After this year we might not need to retire anyone till 2026/27 and we'll be on the up. Good times ahead.
Click to expand...
Jones, Paton, Cambell, Hayes, Allison in a bit of trouble and Webster potential retirement!
Heath will need to build a decent tank..third year in the system now.
 
saintmike65 said:
Jones, Paton, Cambell, Hayes, Allison in a bit of trouble and Webster potential retirement!
Heath will need to build a decent tank..third year in the system now.
Click to expand...
Yes there's a bit to play out this year for a few blokes.
You'd think the old boys will try to hang around if they can though. Timmy, Jimmy and Ross all leaving at once seems unlikely.
 
hangdog said:
I believe a club is only required to move on 3 players a season? I'm hoping we make the minimum number of changes (unless there's a bunch of guns that are nominating to come to us and we need to clear spots for them).

Most likely gone

Allison
Paton
Campbell
McLennan

Good chance to be moved on

Ross (respectfully, i hope he's forced out by the improvement of Windy, Dow, Owens, Byrnes, Wilson, Pou, Hotton etc)
Jones (unless he can prove his injuries are under control)
Hayes (same as Jones)
Webster (Simply an age factor and possible growth of Stocker, Paton, Hastie, Bonner, McLennan etc)
Howard (don't want to lose him, especially for nothing but just have a feeling he might move on)
Membrey (same as Howard, only more devastating personally)

Moderate to low chance

Battle (just because of trade rumours)
Stocker (was surprised he had to wait so long for a contract extension. Hope we extend him for a couple this year)
Heath (doesn't make sense to drop him so early on. I suspect he'll get a modest extension)
Bonner (DFA's tend to only get a year more often than not. Hope he has a good season and hangs around)
Hotton (will need to show a fair bit of improvement but I have some faith he'll get a modest extension)
Byrnes (same as Hotton but with more credits in the bank)

No chance to be moved on

Sharman (can't wait for him this season. Seems like Membrey's spot is his for the taking)
Butler (You'd think he'd be one of the earliest announcements this year)
Keeler (Surely wasn't drafted to just watch for 2 years. Needs time and should get an extension)
Van Es (same as Keeler)
Wood (gun)
Phillipou (Sign up immediately please. 4 year deal)

FYI, below is the list of OOC players for 2024.

Angus McLennan NFA
Ben Paton NFA
Cooper Sharman NFA
Daniel Butler NFA
Dougal Howard NFA
Isaac Keeler NFA
Jack Hayes NFA
James Van Es NFA
Jimmy Webster UFA
Josh Battle RFA
Liam Stocker UFA
Mason Wood NFA
Mattaes Phillipou NFA
Matthew Allison NFA
Max Heath NFA
Olli Hotton NFA
Riley Bonner UFA
Ryan Byrnes NFA
Sebastian Ross UFA
Tim Membrey UFA
Tom Campbell UFA
Zak Jones NFA
Click to expand...
Clubs usually move on 10 a year so I can see us doing that again. Harder to choose players now but by years end it'll be obvious.

Guys like Paton, Hayes, Van Es, Stocker, Allison, Heath, Hotton, Bonner, Byrnes, Ross, Membrey, Campbell, Jones could all go with poor years or not kicking on how we'd expect.
 

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Dard Ball Get said:
Is this a thing?

Honestly don’t keep tabs on most ruckmen, due to the fact 80% of the gimps get games just for being tall, but don’t quite a few continue to play as main banana after 30?

Witts, Goldstein, Gawn, Lycett, Grundy (if he didn’t request that silly trade) all come to mind.
Click to expand...
Yep. If Heath doesn’t come on, then we trade one in. With Rucks, it can be better to target known quantities rather than waste picks in the draft.
 
for what its worth i read something by king(north dual flag player,first name escapes me right now)talking up heath and keeler after watching training,take out of that what you will,probably needed something to write about so got off his axx to go take a look at saints training,he had no negatives so always dubious when only positives

david king
 
Ive always believed that well run club administrations and boards are the first building block to winning flags and unlike past years the club now has both the off field and on field personnel to finally break our drought.

We still have a couple of list weakeness like a dominant key defender and a genuine backup ruckman, but hopefully that can be addressed in the next couple of seasons. Im hoping that players like Van Es, Keeler, Heath or Shoenmaker will jump from the clouds, but it may mean that we look to trade in to fill those holes, hopefully not.

For some reason AGAIN we have an excessive amount of HBF's on the list (Sinclair 28yo, Wanganeen-Milera 20yo, Windhager 20yo, Webster 30yo, Stocker 23yo, Paton 25yo, Bonner 27yo, Hastie 18yo, McLennan 20yo and O'Connell 20yo). Thats 25% of the list fighting for 2 positions as Sinclair & Nas are locks. Over time it may even out with eg Windhager moving to the midfield, Webster retiring, Wang-Mil moving to a wing when Wood retires, Stocker could play an inside mid role, Paton delisted but for now its really unbalanced.

I understand that Nas was recruited as a wingman and Windhager as a mid, but we seem to have a happy knack of accumulating a ridiculous number of HBF's on our list. Obviously the development of players like Hastie, McLennan and OConnell will take time which will stagger the intake, but even then its still unbalanced when you look at other list holes.
 
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SteeleSaints said:
Ive always believed that well run club administrations and boards are the first building block to winning flags and unlike past years the club now has both the off field and on field personnel to finally break our drought.

We still have a couple of list weakeness like a dominant key defender and a genuine backup ruckman, but hopefully that can be addressed in the next couple of seasons. Im hoping that players like Van Es, Keeler, Heath or Shoenmaker will jump from the clouds, but it may mean that we look to trade in to fill those holes, hopefully not.

For some reason AGAIN we have an excessive amount of HBF's on the list (Sinclair 28yo, Wanganeen-Milera 20yo, Windhager 20yo, Webster 30yo, Stocker 23yo, Paton 25yo, Bonner 27yo, Hastie 18yo, McLennan 20yo and O'Connell 20yo). Thats 25% of the list fighting for 2 positions as Sinclair & Nas are locks. Over time it may even out with eg Windhager moving to the midfield, Webster retiring, Wang-Mil moving to a wing when Wood retires, Stocker could play an inside mid role, Paton delisted but for now its really unbalanced.

I understand that Nas was recruited as a wingman and Windhager as a mid, but we seem to have a happy knack of accumulating a ridiculous number of HBF's on our list. Obviously the development of players like Hastie, McLennan and OConnell will take time which will stagger the intake, but even then its still unbalanced when you look at other list holes.
Click to expand...
That’s exactly why I questioned drafting Hastie ahead of Cooper Simpson
 
SteeleSaints said:
Ive always believed that well run club administrations and boards are the first building block to winning flags and unlike past years the club now has both the off field and on field personnel to finally break our drought.

We still have a couple of list weakeness like a dominant key defender and a genuine backup ruckman, but hopefully that can be addressed in the next couple of seasons. Im hoping that players like Van Es, Keeler, Heath or Shoenmaker will jump from the clouds, but it may mean that we look to trade in to fill those holes, hopefully not.

For some reason AGAIN we have an excessive amount of HBF's on the list (Sinclair 28yo, Wanganeen-Milera 20yo, Windhager 20yo, Webster 30yo, Stocker 23yo, Paton 25yo, Bonner 27yo, Hastie 18yo, McLennan 20yo and O'Connell 20yo). Thats 25% of the list fighting for 2 positions as Sinclair & Nas are locks. Over time it may even out with eg Windhager moving to the midfield, Webster retiring, Wang-Mil moving to a wing when Wood retires, Stocker could play an inside mid role, Paton delisted but for now its really unbalanced.

I understand that Nas was recruited as a wingman and Windhager as a mid, but we seem to have a happy knack of accumulating a ridiculous number of HBF's on our list. Obviously the development of players like Hastie, McLennan and OConnell will take time which will stagger the intake, but even then its still unbalanced when you look at other list holes.
Click to expand...
I think you've dispelled your own concerns here.

.Pato will be gone
.Jweb probably max 2 years left, great depth if so
.Windy will move to the midfield
.Nas may move to the wing or HFF
.Sincs will roll through the midfield ongoing
.Bonner good depth for now
.Stocker developing
.Hastie is a couple of years off
.Gus and Irish are longshots and cat B so effectively outside the list

Assuming a 2 year timeframe, which l think is the plan anyway, it looks ok to me.
Bonner 30yo
Stocker 25yo
Hastie 21yo
Gus, Irish, TBD
 
ScrappyDo said:
I think you've dispelled your own concerns here.

.Pato will be gone
.Jweb probably max 2 years left, great depth if so
.Windy will move to the midfield
.Nas may move to the wing or HFF
.Sincs will roll through the midfield ongoing
.Bonner good depth for now
.Stocker developing
.Hastie is a couple of years off
.Gus and Irish are longshots and cat B so effectively outside the list

Assuming a 2 year timeframe, which l think is the plan anyway, it looks ok to me.
Bonner 30yo
Stocker 25yo
Hastie 21yo
Gus, Irish, TBD
Click to expand...

Agree in part, but I dont think the club will be in a hurry to move Sinclair & Nas to permanent midfield roles (thats a maybe). Windhager is the only player who should progress to a permanent mid, but I think RTB likes him across the HB line. Webster could play on for another couple of years so we still will have another 5 players who play only in one position. Even Hunter Clark if he gets pushed out of the midfield is used as a HBF, for list balance we have far too many who play that role, compared to other positional needs.

The above is taking into account what we have coming through in other positions like I listed above - key defenders & ruckman. Keeler and Heath are the two possible ruckman but both have reported aerobic weaknesses, which is an obvious requirement for ruckman at AFL level. Then we have Van Es as a developing key defender who also has below average running and kicking skills. Keeler may also be trialled as a key defender, but we are well short of having a player capable of replacing Howard or Marshall if required. Cordy is like Campbell they will only get games when others are injured.

Hopefully we have plans to fill the rucking and key defender needs when we can, as we have had a lot of list changes in past years and its difficult to turn things around quickly. There is no doubt we rated Hastie and Bonner as best available, but time will tell whether it was the right decision over looking a ruckman or key defenders when we already had so many HBF's on the list.
 
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SteeleSaints said:
Agree in part, but I dont think the club will be in a hurry to move Sinclair & Nas to permanent midfield roles (thats a maybe). Windhager is the only player who should progress to a permanent mid, but I think RTB likes him across the HB line. Webster could play on for another couple of years so we still will have another 5 players who play only in one position. Even Hunter Clark if he gets pushed out of the midfield is used as a HBF, for list balance we have far too many who play that role, compared to other positional needs.

The above is taking into account what we have coming through in other positions like I listed above - key defenders & ruckman. Keeler and Heath are the two possible ruckman but both have reported aerobic weaknesses, which is an obvious requirement for ruckman at AFL level. Then we have Van Es as a developing key defender who also has below average running and kicking skills. Keeler may also be trialled as a key defender, but we are well short of having a player capable of replacing Howard or Marshall if required. Cordy is like Campbell they will only get games when others are injured.

Hopefully we have plans to fill the rucking and key defender needs when we can, as we have had a lot of list changes in past years and its difficult to turn things around quickly. There is no doubt we rated Hastie and Bonner as best available, but time will tell whether it was the right decision over looking a ruckman or key defenders when we already had so many HBF's on the list.
Click to expand...
I feel pretty sure Windy was put back just to get games into him and he'll be in the guts as soon as they think he's ready.
Our KPDs are serviceable also.
2 years is a long time in footy.
 
SteeleSaints said:
Ive always believed that well run club administrations and boards are the first building block to winning flags and unlike past years the club now has both the off field and on field personnel to finally break our drought.

We still have a couple of list weakeness like a dominant key defender and a genuine backup ruckman, but hopefully that can be addressed in the next couple of seasons. Im hoping that players like Van Es, Keeler, Heath or Shoenmaker will jump from the clouds, but it may mean that we look to trade in to fill those holes, hopefully not.

For some reason AGAIN we have an excessive amount of HBF's on the list (Sinclair 28yo, Wanganeen-Milera 20yo, Windhager 20yo, Webster 30yo, Stocker 23yo, Paton 25yo, Bonner 27yo, Hastie 18yo, McLennan 20yo and O'Connell 20yo). Thats 25% of the list fighting for 2 positions as Sinclair & Nas are locks. Over time it may even out with eg Windhager moving to the midfield, Webster retiring, Wang-Mil moving to a wing when Wood retires, Stocker could play an inside mid role, Paton delisted but for now its really unbalanced.

I understand that Nas was recruited as a wingman and Windhager as a mid, but we seem to have a happy knack of accumulating a ridiculous number of HBF's on our list. Obviously the development of players like Hastie, McLennan and OConnell will take time which will stagger the intake, but even then its still unbalanced when you look at other list holes.
Click to expand...


They can be redeployed.
 
ScrappyDo said:
I feel pretty sure Windy was put back just to get games into him and he'll be in the guts as soon as they think he's ready.
Our KPDs are serviceable also.
2 years is a long time in footy.
Click to expand...


Yeah, plenty build confidence down back before moving out.
 
ScrappyDo said:
I feel pretty sure Windy was put back just to get games into him and he'll be in the guts as soon as they think he's ready.
Our KPDs are serviceable also.
2 years is a long time in footy.
Click to expand...
I think they put him there to get him in the team but the concerning thing is Ross keeps referring to half back as his “sweet spot”. Someone needs to show him his tagging games again Kelly, Neale etc, his attributes are everything we need in the middle.
 
hayes said:
I think they put him there to get him in the team but the concerning thing is Ross keeps referring to half back as his “sweet spot”. Someone needs to show him his tagging games again Kelly, Neale etc, his attributes are everything we need in the middle.
Click to expand...
It doesn't really matter. They'll put him where he does best.
 
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