Team Mgmt. 2024 Midfield

[ghostdog]

Broken clock is right twice a day, our midfield mix has been boring for a while. And that midfield you listed is something I'd like to play more often, but we all know Parish and Merrett will get the most minutes.

I'm not sure what you want. Our midfield is currently the most exciting it's been in years, but hey, if you want to put Zach on the trade table you'd probably want to get your Change.org petition going soon so you've got enough momentum at year's end. Nate Caddy won't be playing midfield anytime soon.

 

[ant555]

I'm not sure what you want. Our midfield is currently the most exciting it's been in years, but hey, if you want to put Zach on the trade table you'd probably want to get your Change.org petition going soon so you've got enough momentum at year's end. Nate Caddy won't be playing midfield anytime soon.

It is still very much reliant on the under 182cm brigade.

 

[Milanista28]

I'm not sure what you want. Our midfield is currently the most exciting it's been in years, but hey, if you want to put Zach on the trade table you'd probably want to get your Change.org petition going soon so you've got enough momentum at year's end. Nate Caddy won't be playing midfield anytime soon.

Why we talking trading Merrett and Caddy being a mid, he's likely never going to be a mid.

The midfield is vanilla without Stringer, only Tsatas has some exciting traits that differs from most of our smaller mids.

 

[ghostdog]

Hopefully we see plenty of Caldwell in the guts. I reckon he’s got Butters type upside. Not a big lad but is damaging with possession, as hard as anything and reckon his running will improve again with now 2 preseasons under his belt post hamstring issues. Finger crossed.

Agree, Caldwell has the potential to go to another level with a bit of consistency.

Why we talking trading Merrett and Caddy being a mid, he's likely never going to be a mid.

The midfield is vanilla without Stringer, only Tsatas has some exciting traits that differs from most of our smaller mids.

So what do you want that would make it less boring for you?

 

[jdstorm]

if we’re just looking at mids I think it’s best to categorise them as 5 onballers and 3 wings.

Any player that doesn’t fit into one of these 8 spots is going to have to excel either as a forward or a back to be selected.

Current Starting Group
Merrett, Parish, Stringer with Durham and Dursma as the wingers. As I have said before I think Durham may get CBAs over Merrett to add more defensive presence with Merret floating in as an attacking outlet off the wing before playing as a midfielder during play

That leaves 2 Inside spots for Hobbs, Caldwell, Setterfield, Tsatas, Sheil to compete for. Then that third wing spot brings Cox, Kelly and a bunch of others into play.

Given the desire to not be undersized I’d expect only 1 spot for Hobbs/Sheil/Caldwell and 1 spot between Setters and Tsatas.

So it’s pretty wild that without structural changes to the way they are playing preseason Sheil, Caldwell, Tsatas could be Essendons VFL midfield.

Overall I’d rate them a mid tier group on par with Sydney.

 

[Milanista28]

Agree, Caldwell has the potential to go to another level with a bit of consistency.

So what do you want that would make it less boring for you?

Not much on the list that can make it more dynamic. We have zero inside mids who kick goals and take marks around the ground, until we do we'll be vanilla.

Having said that Tsatas, Durham, Duursma and Martin give me some hope, maybe Perkins but I like him forward.

Stringer is the only bloke on our list that would worry me if I was an opposition coach if he got off the chain in the middle and he's super inconsistent.

Parish, Merrett, Caldwell and Hobbs are good players but they aren't big impact/damage guys imo.

Need more, might get more and we'll all be happy.

 

[JayJ20]

Stacked in this area for the first time since the finals drought started.

Parish, Merrett, Setterfield, Stringer, Perkins, Hobbs, Caldwell, Martin, Durham, Tsatas and Duursma (on the wing) are all players that can rotate through the middle. Pretty significant depth.

 

[bombreys]

Disappears as in he only gets 40% CBAs and then limps through the end of the season with injury?

More as in he had 15 or less touches the same amount of times as he had over 20. As with McGrath, his overrated defensive game isn’t good enough to give him extended midfield minutes. Would rather see Hobbs especially get that time, as well as Tsatas, Durham, etc.

 

[ghostdog]

Not much on the list that can make it more dynamic. We have zero inside mids who kick goals and take marks around the ground, until we do we'll be vanilla.

Having said that Tsatas, Durham, Duursma and Martin give me some hope, maybe Perkins but I like him forward.

Stringer is the only bloke on our list that would worry me if I was an opposition coach if he got off the chain in the middle and he's super inconsistent.

Parish, Merrett, Caldwell and Hobbs are good players but they aren't big impact/damage guys imo.

Need more, might get more and we'll all be happy.

If you didn't talk in extremes you'd sound more believable. "Zero" is crap. Here's an inside mid with some goal sense who is not Jake Stringer;


You go on to list a group of young mids who you say give you hope, yet somehow that's boring.

You're not happy with Parish, Merrett, Hobbs or Caldwell because they aren't big impact guys. The former two have actually demonstrated that they can have a big impact in big games. The latter two have really only started getting some consistent appearances, let alone in their preferred positions, but they're vanilla? Gimme a break.

You're looking for a superstar to hang your fanboi fantasies on. Zach Merrett will give you the trade capital you're looking for. Otherwise, if you look carefully you'll see the moves that have been made to recruit players that can make us more dynamic through the midfield. I'm optimistic that we're moving in the right direction with our rebuild. If that's too boring for you, can't do nothing for ya man.

 

[ghostdog]

It is still very much reliant on the under 182cm brigade.

No argument there, but the composition has definitely been enhanced by the inclusion of others; Setterfield, Durham, Duursma etc. Let's see what they can achieve before writing them off.

 

[DERO]

It is still very much reliant on the under 182cm brigade.

Worth revisiting Richmond's last premiership midfield I reckon. People seem to get a bit too hung up on the measurements of midfielders for mine. I reckon if you took the average height of that midfield it would probably come out somewhere near 182...

 

[Milanista28]

If you didn't talk in extremes you'd sound more believable. "Zero" is crap. Here's an inside mid with some goal sense who is not Jake Stringer;


You go on to list a group of young mids who you say give you hope, yet somehow that's boring.

You're not happy with Parish, Merrett, Hobbs or Caldwell because they aren't big impact guys. The former two have actually demonstrated that they can have a big impact in big games. The latter two have really only started getting some consistent appearances, let alone in their preferred positions, but they're vanilla? Gimme a break.

You're looking for a superstar to hang your fanboi fantasies on. Zach Merrett will give you the trade capital you're looking for. Otherwise, if you look carefully you'll see the moves that have been made to recruit players that can make us more dynamic through the midfield. I'm optimistic that we're moving in the right direction with our rebuild. If that's too boring for you, can't do nothing for ya man.

If you don't think our midfield has been vanilla and bang average for a few years I don't know what team you've been watching. 90% of the games we lose is because the midfield get beaten. They've been meek, need a wake up call and a balance shift. Durham possibly more inside is proof they know they need new blood in there.

Not sure why calling them boring has got you up and about, they are compared to the good teams, that's undisputed, we need a lot more from the lads.

Hope we get it.

 

[owen87]

If you don't think our midfield has been vanilla and bang average for a few years I don't know what team you've been watching. 90% of the games we lose is because the midfield get beaten. They've been meek, need a wake up call and a balance shift. Durham possibly more inside is proof they know they need new blood in there.

Not sure why calling them boring has got you up and about, they are compared to the good teams, that's undisputed, we need a lot more from the lads.

Hope we get it.

If Hobbs can be boring and reliable the way a Selwood or Liberatore are then I think that'll make quite a difference.

Our biggest issue is that we're unreliable when it comes to winning or breaking even on the hardball aspect IMO.

 

[Milanista28]

If Hobbs can be boring and reliable the way a Selwood or Liberatore are then I think that'll make quite a difference.

Our biggest issue is that we're unreliable when it comes to winning or breaking even on the hardball aspect IMO.

I think the guys we have developing are good solid citizens, the Cotchin, Selwood, Libba and Viney types are inspirational guys who like to do the grunt work, Parish, Hobbs, Caldwell can be these guys, they need the class and polish above them, Martin, Danger, Bont and Petracca.

Merrett is an in between guy, not purely grunt but not a goal kicking high impact mid, he's a super consistent player though.

Maybe boring is a little harsh, it's not meant to say they can't play or aren't good just that I think that next level of mid isn't on our list, aside from Stringer 30% of the time and maybe Tsatas, way too early. How we use Perkins, Duursma, Martin and Durham may make us go from vanilla to amazing or anything in between.

 

[ant555]

Worth revisiting Richmond's last premiership midfield I reckon. People seem to get a bit too hung up on the measurements of midfielders for mine. I reckon if you took the average height of that midfield it would probably come out somewhere near 182...

So who is our Dustin Martin or Trent Cotchin who are 187 and 185 respectively right now ? It is not about average height. Prestia at 175 drags their average down. It is about an even spread and a dynamic force like Martin. I am not hung up on the measurements. I am hung up on too many similar types. It is getting better but our big dogs are still a bunch of little dogs right now. Also adds to the marking issue I keep banging on about. Most of our midfielders are not competitive in the air.

 

[ant555]

No argument there, but the composition has definitely been enhanced by the inclusion of others; Setterfield, Durham, Duursma etc. Let's see what they can achieve before writing them off.

Where have I written them off ? All I said was right now we are reliant on the 182cm brigade. The rest have to prove themselves.

 

[ghostdog]

I think the guys we have developing are good solid citizens, the Cotchin, Selwood, Libba and Viney types are inspirational guys who like to do the grunt work, Parish, Hobbs, Caldwell can be these guys, they need the class and polish above them, Martin, Danger, Bont and Petracca.

Merrett is an in between guy, not purely grunt but not a goal kicking high impact mid, he's a super consistent player though.

Maybe boring is a little harsh, it's not meant to say they can't play or aren't good just that I think that next level of mid isn't on our list, aside from Stringer 30% of the time and maybe Tsatas, way too early. How we use Perkins, Duursma, Martin and Durham may make us go from vanilla to amazing or anything in between.

I've edited this as I posted accidentally earlier.

I guess I got a bit annoyed that you weren't willing to give any latitude even though we're clearly a list rebuilding and in transition. We don't have a list full of Nat Fyfes, we're rebuilding. I agree that we need a superstar in there to lift and lead - no question, and I hope that's something to look into, but it's unfair to write off the young players especially. There is pleasure in the hope of youth. That's not boring.

 

[DERO]

So who is our Dustin Martin or Trent Cotchin who are 187 and 185 respectively right now ? It is not about average height. Prestia at 175 drags their average down. It is about an even spread and a dynamic force like Martin. I am not hung up on the measurements. I am hung up on too many similar types. It is getting better but our big dogs are still a bunch of little dogs right now. Also adds to the marking issue I keep banging on about. Most of our midfielders are not competitive in the air.

They weren't a big midfiled (but were bloody good) was what i was trying to say in a round about way.

 

[ghostdog]

Where have I written them off ? All I said was right now we are reliant on the 182cm brigade. The rest have to prove themselves.

I never said you did. I said I don't think we should, mostly in response to the assertion that they're boring and not worth anything. I agree we're reliant on those shorter players, but it's finally a bit exciting that that demographic is shifting. Unfortunately that's not good enough for Milanista28.

 

[ant555]

They weren't a big midfiled (but were bloody good) was what i was trying to say in a round about way.

Never under estimate power either. Prestia may only be 175cm but he plays at 84 kg . Jack Graham 181/185 . For Brisbane Lachie Neale. 178 / 84 . Our blokes can play but they are not power athletes. I like Hobbs as I think he ends up a little bull . Tsatas has scope to be a power player . I will be interested in what Merrett is playing at this year as he looks really solid and powerful this pre season and he is 179/83 from last years stats.
Tigers where not big in height but their little guys had either plenty of grunt or plenty of speed.

 

[ant555]

I never said you did. I said I don't think we should, mostly in response to the assertion that they're boring and not worth anything. I agree we're reliant on those shorter players, but it's finally a bit exciting that that demographic is shifting. Unfortunately that's not good enough for Milanista28.

Well they have been a bit boring in reality. You can not blame supporters for actually wanting to see a change on the field and the way we play before they become all warm and fuzzy. You may want to walk out on that ledge but others have been Wylie Coyote a few too many times to commit. Yes things are looking to be moving towards a different spread of players but we will still be reliant on the usual suspects this year. Just hope they can finally get their head around team defense as across the ground we do need to improve our physical presence which is not as easy.

 

[ghostdog]

Well they have been a bit boring in reality. You can not blame supporters for actually wanting to see a change on the field and the way we play before they become all warm and fuzzy. You may want to walk out on that ledge but others have been Wylie Coyote a few too many times to commit. Yes things are looking to be moving towards a different spread of players but we will still be reliant on the usual suspects this year. Just hope they can finally get their head around team defense as across the ground we do need to improve our physical presence which is not as easy.

Yeah I'd accept that we were boring in past years. But if people can't see at least that we are changing, including the young players with broadbrush descriptions like vanilla or boring especially is a bit unfair.
Hobbs has 35 games
Caldwell 47 games
Martin 44 games
Durham 49 games
It's these guys who are driving the change, not Jake Stringer.

 

[Milanista28]

I never said you did. I said I don't think we should, mostly in response to the assertion that they're boring and not worth anything. I agree we're reliant on those shorter players, but it's finally a bit exciting that that demographic is shifting. Unfortunately that's not good enough for Milanista28.

Shouldn't be good enough for anyone who wants to be successful, even you admit it needs to change, because it's been sub standard and boring.

Might be completely different in 2024, I know we all hope it is

 

[ghostdog]

Shouldn't be good enough for anyone who wants to be successful, even you admit it needs to change, because it's been sub standard and boring.

Might be completely different in 2024, I know we all hope it is

The demographic shifting shouldn't be good enough for anyone?
Maybe people just need to be patient with the young players.

That doesn't excuse the club for its dumb moves of the past, like not hiring enough specialist coaches - roast away. That has nothing to do with Hobbs et. al.

And of course I'd advocate improving the list. Have we not been doing that recently?

 

[Nifft]

Yeah I'd accept that we were boring in past years. But if people can't see at least that we are changing, including the young players with broadbrush descriptions like vanilla or boring especially is a bit unfair.
Hobbs has 35 games
Caldwell 47 games
Martin 44 games
Durham 49 games
It's these guys who are driving the change, not Jake Stringer.

Whilst I like what Scott is doing so far, I'm still remaining cautious. Even if we start the year well (which would be very un Essendon like) the thing in the back of my mind is how we dropped off a cliff at the end of last year.

Scott has had his look at the team and this year he needs to be more harsh. The midfield has to be more accountable. I think Zach is a good captain and leads by example, but we still need someone strong in the middle that can take control. I don't think Stringer can do this other than in the occasional game because he's likely to get injured. While I like Setterfield he seems more of a blocker than a playmaker. I do like all the guys you've listed above and I really hope they can find another gear this year and make a difference.