Rumour 2024 Rumours and Speculation Part 3

[Mr MysteryGuest]

He's ex-Academy so it isn't that surprising

It explains why he wants to play for us, not why we’re interested.

Maybe we think we can get him cheap

 

[Mostyn]

We shouldn't have allowed it to get to this point...end of story.

Spin it anyway you want it's poor list management by the club.The only one of those you've named I'd be confident about as a future long term lead ruck would be Dante Visentini, the rest are more back up than lead rucks.

Conway would be an option but it would be fraught with danger given his ongoing history of foot issues

Our needs are immediate.

You think Barnett, Verrall, Goad or Dodson will be ready to lead an AFL ruck in 2026?

I highly doubt it especially given Barnett is being groomed as a KPD this season, that would indicate the WCE don't see him as an AFL lead ruck?

Who would you have drafted, and who would have not chosen?

We had our eye on a few, but they weren't there or we chose otehrs instead.

Who would you have taken?

 

[Mostyn]

We have found plenty of bargain ruckmen over the years.

The issue is we didn't even try last trade/draft period, despite anyone with half a clue knowing it is a need.

Now we head into this season with our biggest risk of losing ROB for a significant period of time & having no decent backup.

It's even worse with Himmelberg leaving & Thilthorpe returning from injury. Toby Murray isn't ready.

It's very concerning we could have our season derailed on 1 player not being available.

I don't understand why you exert so much energy defending the club's suspect decision making.

I've said a fair few times that I was disappointed with keeping Smith.

I've also said I don't particularly rate rucks. So many sides have succeeded with rucks who are mediocre or worse, you have to wonder about their necessity.

I haven't ever changed my option on that one.

But ...

Let's say it becomes desperate. Both ROB and Strachan are injured, for the first time ever. And ROB is replaced with Toby or Burgess. Honestly - is it THAT bad? I'd be more worried about Rankine being injured and replaced with Murphy.

Is it suspect not valuing rucks? I'm not sure. I might agree with putting the draft picks elsewhere - and I say that as no fan of ROB.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I've said a fair few times that I was disappointed with keeping Smith.

I've also said I don't particularly rate rucks. So many sides have succeeded with rucks who are mediocre or worse, you have to wonder about their necessity.

I haven't ever changed my option on that one.

But ...

Let's say it becomes desperate. Both ROB and Strachan are injured, for the first time ever. And ROB is replaced with Toby or Burgess. Honestly - is it THAT bad? I'd be more worried about Rankine being injured and replaced with Murphy.

Is it suspect not valuing rucks? I'm not sure. I might agree with putting the draft picks elsewhere - and I say that as no fan of ROB.

If we has either Toby or Burgess leading our rucks for any decent period of time, we are likely to get smashed in the clearances.

Likely to be a difference between winning & losing games.

 

[weneverland]

If we has either Toby or Burgess leading our rucks for any decent period of time, we are likely to get smashed in the clearances.

Likely to be a difference between winning & losing games.

You know teams in the past have quite successfully played to losing rucks. I believe Collingwood did that a few years ago now and were consistent finalists.

 

[Mostyn]

If we has either Toby or Burgess leading our rucks for any decent period of time, we are likely to get smashed in the clearances.

Likely to be a difference between winning & losing games.

The thing is - is that true? Clubs put terrible rucks in, and still do fine at clearances.

Honestly, I'm not sure. Logic says you're right - but does the evidence back it up?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You know teams in the past have quite successfully played to losing rucks. I believe Collingwood did that a few years ago now and were consistent finalists.

Is this your preferred position?

Do you think given we have missed the finals for 7 years whilst having a reasonable ruckman, we would make the finals without one? I doubt it!

Collingwood have nearly always had someone better than Toby or Burgess.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The thing is - is that true? Clubs put terrible rucks in, and still do fine at clearances.

Honestly, I'm not sure. Logic says you're right - but does the evidence back it up?

Seriously?

Does our midfield have a record of winning games regularly when getting smashed in the ruck?

How did we go when Strachan couldn't run out games...

 

[Mutineer]

Who would you have drafted, and who would have not chosen?

We had our eye on a few, but they weren't there or we chose otehrs instead.

Who would you have taken?

All cheap and all draftable as development ruckmen.

2024 Alex Dodson, bid on Logan Smith, who went through to pick 71, rookie list Flynn Penry or Joe Pike.

2023 Lachlan Smith, Vigo Visentini (rookie)

2022 Max Knobel, Will Verrall (rookie)

2021 Dante Visentini

2020 Henry Smith.

Even Taylor Goad we were supposed to have had big interest, could have upgraded the Edwards/Ryan picks to get up the order enought to guarantee Goad could have been had.

 

[Mutineer]

Is this your preferred position?

Do you think given we have missed the finals for 7 years whilst having a reasonable ruckman, we would make the finals without one? I doubt it!

Collingwood have nearly always had someone better than Toby or Burgess.

The only reason we got Sam Jacobs was because Carlton had a plethora of ruckmen at the time, more good luck than good judgement.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The only reason we got Sam Jacobs was because Carlton had a plethora of ruckmen at the time, more good luck than good judgement.

Was good list management as we targeted a young Jacobs who was ready but behind other rucks & also he got to come home.

There are ruckmen out there, but we have just drifted along with a backup ruckman the same age as our leading ruck who took us what 5 years to work out he isn't up to it, because we rarely dropped ROB when he was in poor form.

 

[weneverland]

Is this your preferred position?

Do you think given we have missed the finals for 7 years whilst having a reasonable ruckman, we would make the finals without one? I doubt it!

Collingwood have nearly always had someone better than Toby or Burgess.

As others have said, if having a good ruckman couldn't get us into the finals perhaps that position is over valued. Putting our resources into other areas of the ground would be more beneficial. Most hitouts are not to advantage and it is the midfielders that make of them what they can. Now if we could find a tall that could make a nuisance of themselves at CBs but then actually take some contested marks around the ground, that might be handy.

 

[1970crow]

Maybe we get Mumford out of retirement for a couple of stopgap years.

Happened a few times so far, reckon we'd be a shot.

Goldy seems addicted to playing.

 

[AFC979810]

Seriously?

Does our midfield have a record of winning games regularly when getting smashed in the ruck?

We have a terrible record under Nicks - whether we win the ruck battle or lose the ruck battle.

How did we go when Strachan couldn't run out games...

In the 2 game sample size - it didnt really matter that much TBH.

We got smashed by Sydney when Grundy had his way with Strachan. We got smashed by Sydney when ROB won the hitouts and we won the clearances.

The Richmond game was a bit unfair to put it all on Strachan. That was an absolute shocking lineup that week:

McHenry, Hamill, Murphy, Jones, Burgess, Borlase, Schoenberg, Dowling, Smith, Berry, Strachan and Butts were all in the best 23. Its looking likely that none of these players will play Rd1 2025.

 

[AFC979810]

If we has either Toby or Burgess leading our rucks for any decent period of time, we are likely to get smashed in the clearances.

Likely to be a difference between winning & losing games.

What team isn't going to struggle if they lose their two first choice ruckman?

 

[Stephen2]

We have a terrible record under Nicks - whether we win the ruck battle or lose the ruck battle.



In the 2 game sample size - it didnt really matter that much TBH.

We got smashed by Sydney when Grundy had his way with Strachan. We got smashed by Sydney when ROB won the hitouts and we won the clearances.

The Richmond game was a bit unfair to put it all on Strachan. That was an absolute shocking lineup that week:

McHenry, Hamill, Murphy, Jones, Burgess, Borlase, Schoenberg, Dowling, Smith, Berry, Strachan and Butts were all in the best 23. Its looking likely that none of these players will play Rd1 2025.

This is an excellent post from start to finish.

OMG that lineup against Richmond, I think I just threw up my breakfast...

 

[AFC979810]

The only reason we got Sam Jacobs was because Carlton had a plethora of ruckmen at the time, more good luck than good judgement.

I would say it was bloody good recruitment.

We identified an SA boy who showed massive potential and wouldn't get gametime at his current club. We already had a decent #1 ruckman in Maric who was only 24 years old and about to come into his prime.

 

[AFC979810]

Neither are lead rucks at this point in time and unlikely to be ready in 2026 if ROB and Strachan both leave or get delisted.

So the premiers have completely bungled their list management? Going into a season with soon to be 31 year old Oscar as ruckman 1 (OOC 2026) and 31 year old Darcy Fort (OOC 2025). If both of them go down then all that is left is Smith who isnt ready apparently.

Call me crazy, but looks eerily similar to us having a 29 year old Rob as our starter and a backup who is also 29 years old. Like Brisbane has Smith - we have a 22 year old Fwd / Ruck in Thilthorpe and another fwd ruck in Toby Murray.

Our short term ruck situation for 2025 is completely fine. It's the same it was in 2022, 2023, 2024.

 

[AFC979810]

We have found plenty of bargain ruckmen over the years.

The issue is we didn't even try last trade/draft period, despite anyone with half a clue knowing it is a need.

I think the club has locked up Draper to be honest and that has influenced our lack of movement on a ruck.

2025 offseason will be interesting. If we have put all our eggs in the Draper basket and he changes his mind and we lose ROB we will be in a spot of bother, but we will know this early on in the piece.

By bringing in Draper - we will have a 27 year old ruck for 2026 and keep / replace Strachan as a backup. We will then most likely Rookie a ruckman in 2025.

Now we head into this season with our biggest risk of losing ROB for a significant period of time & having no decent backup.

It's even worse with Himmelberg leaving & Thilthorpe returning from injury. Toby Murray isn't ready.

It's very concerning we could have our season derailed on 1 player not being available.

I don't understand why you exert so much energy defending the club's suspect decision making.

Your thoughts on Brisbane trying to re-peat with an almost identical ruck set up to us?

 

[George CantStandYa]

I think the club has locked up Draper to be honest and that has influenced our lack of movement on a ruck.

2025 offseason will be interesting. If we have put all our eggs in the Draper basket and he changes his mind and we lose ROB we will be in a spot of bother, but we will know this early on in the piece.

By bringing in Draper - we will have a 27 year old ruck for 2026 and keep / replace Strachan as a backup. We will then most likely Rookie a ruckman in 2025.



Your thoughts on Brisbane trying to re-peat with an almost identical ruck set up to us?

Would your preference be to recruit Draper on a decent contract or have used one draft pick on a ruck over the last few years who could be leading our ruck?

 

[Mostyn]

The only reason we got Sam Jacobs was because Carlton had a plethora of ruckmen at the time, more good luck than good judgement.

I think that is the same strategy they're hoping for now. Replace your ruckman by identifying someone who's not getting opportunities, because teams can really only play one ruckman at senior level at a time.

 

[Mostyn]

Seriously?

Does our midfield have a record of winning games regularly when getting smashed in the ruck?

How did we go when Strachan couldn't run out games...

I agree that we've had big midfield issues for years.

But ROB has been one of the best tap ruckmen through that period.

Changing him wouldn't have changed the midfield issue. We've had to change the actual midfielders themselves.

 

[AFC979810]

Would your preference be to recruit Draper on a decent contract or have used one draft pick on a ruck over the last few years who could be leading our ruck?

Could be?

My preference is definitely not getting Draper. Its gonna cost too much money and I think spending large chunks of our cap on the ruck position is stupid.

My preference is to keep ROB on a reduced contract. Keep Strachan. Draft someone. If we don't keep ROB - poach some other ruckman for a 2nd/3rd round pick thats mature. I would be fine with someone like Soldo from the Power.

 

[AFC979810]

I agree that we've had big midfield issues for years.

But ROB has been one of the best tap ruckmen through that period.

Changing him wouldn't have changed the midfield issue. We've had to change the actual midfielders themselves.

Max Gawn wouldn't fix a midfield group of Sloane, Crouch, Laird and Keys.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Could be?

My preference is definitely not getting Draper. Its gonna cost too much money and I think spending large chunks of our cap on the ruck position is stupid.

My preference is to keep ROB on a reduced contract. Keep Strachan. Draft someone. If we don't keep ROB - poach some other ruckman for a 2nd/3rd round pick thats mature. I would be fine with someone like Soldo from the Power.

Yep could be, just like any mid, forward or defender could make it.

Draft someone, we have some common ground, that’s what some of us have stating for years, use one draft pick on a list of what 42 players, if they don’t look like making it cut them and go again.

So it looks like most of us agree though that the clubs approach, if it pans out that way and we recruit Draper on big money, is the wrong move. At least had we drafted a developing ruck we might not be in this position.