Autopsy 2025 Late flourish doesn't mask embarrassment

[skadoosh]

Seems evident to me that Ollie Hollands doesn't listen to the team strategy.

He's the only player who week in week out tries to proactively run to link up and run into space to receive the ball.

 

[Soapy V]

Just watched first 2 quarters again

We are the worst drilled football side in the AFL. We go slow, don’t go inside, don’t run and support, and players up the ground don’t move or know where to run or create space. These are basics

This is game style, structure and lack of planning

This is COACHING

This doesn’t absolve the players but can’t rate them when we play like this. Our whole coaching group is an embarrassment. How they have a job defies logic

Worst drilled side I have ever seen

All the opposition needs to do is match pressure and then close up space. Then, we have no answers, NONE

Absolute disgrace and a waste of 3 years. Heads need to roll

 

[GenYBlue]

Last game under Bolton:
View attachment 2348692

First game under Teague:
View attachment 2348691

Last game under Teague:
View attachment 2348693

First game under Voss:
View attachment 2348695

Yep confirms the eye test...

Kade Simpson would never

 

[GoBlues!]

I’m not qualified to say.

Neither am I agro. But listening to Voss post match interview saying:

1. We didn’t put enough speed on the ball when we should have.
2. We didn’t defend well as a team in that 2nd and 3rd quarter.
3. In the last quarter we did take chances and try and move the ball quicker.
4. The difference between our best and worst is unacceptable.

These are issues that all posters have expressed in one form or another, and there’s an understanding of what’s not working. Whether he or any other coaching group can do much about fixing these issues is the concern.

 

[Wickzki]

Wasn’t it 2023. Mostly same group. Need to look at reasons why

I've banged on about continuous improvement for ages, and our list management is a massive part of it.

Over the last two years, we've moved on Ed Curnow, Zac Fisher, Matt Kennedy, Jack Martin, Matt Owies, and LOB—guys who were all in our top 30 in 2023. Martin, Kennedy and Owies were all arguably best 22 or close to it (say what you will about Owies non-selection in 2023). In their place? Elijah Hollands (sidelined the majority of this year), Nick Haynes, Orazio Fantasia, and a handful of young blokes who weren’t elite draftees and shouldn’t be expected to carry best 22-30 roles in a finals side. Having some of them make the grade over time itself is or will be a big win for them.

We’ve ripped out our depth and replaced it with one solid vet, a past-his-prime Fantasia, and Hollands, who’s got the talent to be a game-changer but needs serious off-field guidance. That’s it. Depth gutted, and we’re banking on kids to step up too soon.

Internally, Curnow's been a shadow of himself this year. Walsh hasn't been the same for 18-months (a few monster games aside), McKay has had his battles, Cripps isn't close to his best this year, the list goes on and on. Nobody has stepped up in their place because we practically wasted a half-decade full of drafts.

You can't strive for continuous improvement when there's no genuine improvement.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Just watched first 2 quarters again

We are the worst drilled football side in the AFL. We go slow, don’t go inside, don’t run and support, and players up the ground don’t move or know where to run or create space. These are basics

This is game style, structure and lack of planning

This is COACHING

This doesn’t absolve the players but can’t rate them when we play like this. Our whole coaching group is an embarrassment. How they have a job defies logic

Worst drilled side I have ever seen

All the opposition needs to do is match pressure and then close up space. Then, we have no answers, NONE

Absolute disgrace and a waste of 3 years. Heads need to roll

Oh, yes we can. Lack of perspective is our biggest problem. Players don't have to be consistent to be able gauge their strengths and limitations. It's not what we have that's the issue, it's what we don't have.

 

[KoutaGnome]

Alright, I’ve had a night to sleep on it, and yep. We still suck.
My son refused to wear his hoodie and scarf to the airport as it was too embarrassing.
Not only are the older supporters fed up, the next generation of supporters are starting to become embarrassed to show their support.

Great work Blues.

100% this. Club and players are disrespecting and taking for granted not only our support and members, but that of our young kids.

My eldest was at a 9 day camp over King's Birthday on Mornington Peninsula. Over 170 kids from Gr 5/6 public schools in Macedon Ranges + Bendigo attended.

Camp had no tv, or internet. No devices allowed. My daughter approached a camp leader and asked how Blues had gone vs *. Guy was visibly shocked. Replied. 'Yeh they won. You're the first kid to ask.' My daughter replied, 'Oh I thought there's a lot of footy fans here?'.

His response 'Yes there are. Except most are either Pies or Cats fans who ask. In all the camps I've been a leader, almost NOBODY has asked about Carlton.'

Utter indictment. This camp gets kids from all over VIC. Stench of disinterest and mediocrity from too many at CFC, including highly paid players, isn't exactly appealing to many kids.

Also, weren't Bendigo part of Carlton's zone at 1 point?

 

[My Hat]

Finishing last is so we can build a strong core group... you can't do that with rookie and 4th round picks mate...

Besides, the vast majority of the core group we have now won't be there in 2030 anyway...

You think you're clever, what's your strategy?

Let me guess, TDK compo pick for Bergman?

Pick up a few fringe players from other clubs?

Persist with the current crop of pretenders?

You've avoided the point of my post by trying to distract with other arguments. I suspect most others reading can see that, and perhaps you know it too, but just in case I'll spell it out.

In the post I quoted, you said 'it all started with bs selections last year'. In other words, the root cause of this problem, in your estimation, is not the list at all. It's a mentality problem that came about from those selections.

You're so convinced of this that you said 'I'll die on this hill'.

Seems to me that if that's the root of the problem, the best solution would be to improve the mentality of the squad. The evidence of 2023 supports the theory that when we get everything around it right, the list is capable of doing well.

Instead, you want to try to improve the list (which by your own statement is not the root of the problem) by tanking (which will make what you identified as the root of the problem even worse).

I think there's plenty of room to debate the best way forward, but the one thing we absolutely cannot afford to do is dig the hole even deeper. And that's exactly what tanking would do, by your own diagnosis of what the problem is.

 

[Pablito]

Neither am I agro. But listening to Voss post match interview saying:

1. We didn’t put enough speed on the ball when we should have.
2. We didn’t defend well as a team in that 2nd and 3rd quarter.
3. In the last quarter we did take chances and try and move the ball quicker.
4. The difference between our best and worst is unacceptable.

These are issues that all posters have expressed in one form or another, and there’s an understanding of what’s not working. Whether he or any other coaching group can do much about fixing these issues is the concern.

Exactly right, he knows the problem he's not a fool, but he can't fix it. Somebody else might be able to.

Also maybe these results will kick the club up the bum and start realising our experienced players aren't that good.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

100% this. Club and players are disrespecting and taking for granted not only our support and members, but that of our young kids.

My eldest was at a 9 day camp over King's Birthday on Mornington Peninsula. Over 170 kids from Gr 5/6 public schools in Macedon Ranges + Bendigo attended.

Camp had no tv, or internet. No devices allowed. My daughter approached a camp leader and asked how Blues had gone vs *. Guy was visibly shocked. Replied. 'Yeh they won. You're the first kid to ask.' My daughter replied, 'Oh I thought there's a lot of footy fans here?'.

His response 'Yes there are. Except most are either Pies or Cats fans who ask. In all the camps I've been a leader, almost NOBODY has asked about Carlton.'

Utter indictment. This camp gets kids from all over VIC. Stench of disinterest and mediocrity from too many at CFC, including highly paid players, isn't exactly appealing to many kids.

Also, weren't Bendigo part of Carlton's zone at 1 point?

No devices, tv or internet? I think I need this place for the rest of the season.

 

[bigblueboy]

Went to the bar at half time and that’s where I stayed.
Have a headache this morning. Goddamn Carlton.

 

[Broadside]

North also ironed out Hewitt (fair bump) but no protest from nearby players. Fly the flag.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You've avoided the point of my post by trying to distract with other arguments. I suspect most others reading can see that, and perhaps you know it too, but just in case I'll spell it out.

In the post I quoted, you said 'it all started with bs selections last year'. In other words, the root cause of this problem, in your estimation, is not the list at all. It's a mentality problem that came about from those selections.

You're so convinced of this that you said 'I'll die on this hill'.

Seems to me that if that's the root of the problem, the best solution would be to improve the mentality of the squad. The evidence of 2023 supports the theory that when we get everything around it right, the list is capable of doing well.

Instead, you want to try to improve the list (which by your own statement is not the root of the problem) by tanking (which will make what you identified as the root of the problem even worse).

I think there's plenty of room to debate the best way forward, but the one thing we absolutely cannot afford to do is dig the hole even deeper. And that's exactly what tanking would do, by your own diagnosis of what the problem is.

So you haven't got a strategy to counter mine...

I will die on the hill that the problems started with selection.

Just because I don't identify the list as being the root of the problem, doesn't mean I don't think it is a big problem now...

The one dimensional mid field has been exposed and teams have worked us out to the point where we are now losing to two of the worst teams in the comp...

So many of our core group have declined...

So I will also die on the hill that this list needs to be overhauled big time because these issues coupled with the attitude they displayed for 12 months tells me they haven't got what it takes to win a flag.

Tanking one season isn't going to dig us in a deeper hole... can you even make sense of what you're saying?

We lose TDK and Harry, we're probably not finishing higher than 14th next year. Access to only one of the best kids in the draft (Cody)... a few places lower and we get access to 3 of the best kids.

Not sure why you're so hot and bothered by that... accept reality, we aren't a good team... the competition is leapfrogging us...

So, we need to be smart about things now especially with Tassie coming in...

We don't have even a semblance of a winning culture...

So again I'll ask, what's your grand plan? At least have the guts to suggest something instead of just taking pot shots at the idea of finishing last... anybody can do that...

 

[My Hat]

So you haven't got a strategy to counter mine...

I will die on the hill that the problems started with selection.

Just because I don't identify the list as being the root of the problem, doesn't mean I don't think it is a big problem now...

The one dimensional mid field has been exposed and teams have worked us out to the point where we are now losing to two of the worst teams in the comp...

So many of our core group have declined...

So I will also die on the hill that this list needs to be overhauled big time because these issues coupled with the attitude they displayed for 12 months tells me they haven't got what it takes to win a flag.

Tanking one season isn't going to dig us in a deeper hole... can you even make sense of what you're saying?

We lose TDK and Harry, we're probably not finishing higher than 14th next year. Access to only one of the best kids in the draft (Cody)... a few places lower and we get access to 3 of the best kids.

Not sure why you're so hot and bothered by that... accept reality, we aren't a good team... the competition is leapfrogging us...

So, we need to be smart about things now especially with Tassie coming in...

We don't have even a semblance of a winning culture...

So again I'll ask, what's your grand plan? At least have the guts to suggest something instead of just taking pot shots at the idea of finishing last... anybody can do that...

My strategy? Before I do anything, I would prioritise the issues so as to address them in the order of importance.

If, as you argue, squad mentality is where the problem started, then that's what we need to fix first, isn't it? Otherwise it doesn't matter what we do with the list, the same problem would just happen again.

So maybe it's time to stop worrying about picks and tanking, and focus on the real problem?

If you're so keen to talk about solutions, why not talk less about tanking and more about how you'd fix what you see as the cause of all of this, i.e. the squad mentality?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

My strategy? Before I do anything, I would prioritise the issues so as to address them in the order of importance.

If, as you argue, squad mentality is where the problem started, then that's what we need to fix first, isn't it? Otherwise it doesn't matter what we do with the list, the same problem would just happen again.

How? New players and coach will have the same result? Yeah makes a lot of sense there...

Squad mentality is LOST with this group... sack another coach, bring someone new in it'll be more of the same we've already seen with them... a sugar hit until they crack the sads again...

So maybe it's time to stop worrying about picks and tanking, and focus on the real problem?

If you're so keen to talk about solutions, why not talk less about tanking and more about how you'd fix what you see as the cause of all of this, i.e. the squad mentality?

I've already said over and over...

Overhaul the list, get rid of Voss end of next year and with a fresh start, instill the proper standards because clearly that wasn't done with the current core group.

Get it right, and by about 2030, we will be contending again.

So far, heard nothing but

• lose TDK, but we can bring in Bergman and Florent
• chase some fringe players at other clubs
• nail late draft/rookie picks

Yeah what a great plan that is, might finish 12th-14th for a few years before the core group retires...

Now, got anything better than "tanking is stoopid we need wiNNing Cultcha"?

We have fa trade capital, where are we going to magically find the players we need to improve the side?

 

[Soapy V]

Brad Lloyd on 3AW.

Disappointing but he had a good last quarter and need to focus on bouncing back against Port this week

Performing below expectations but we are defending well

Voss is a wonderful person and working hard

Tony Shaw asked him about for 3 years we have had slow ball movement and poor ball use inside 50 and who was responsible. Lloyd said it’s everyone and is working on it

We have been working hard on trying to unlock our ball movement

Kept saying how well we are doing defensively and we can attack as we proved against GC in 2023




Seriously embarrassing interview. If Lloyd is in charge, we are rudderless

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

North also ironed out Hewitt (fair bump) but no protest from nearby players. Fly the flag.

The lack of response to that said it all. Spiritless.

 

[Accidental genius]

Brad Lloyd on 3AW.

Disappointing but he had a good last quarter and need to focus on bouncing back against Port this week

Performing below expectations but we are defending well

Voss is a wonderful person and working hard

Tony Shaw asked him about for 3 years we have had slow ball movement and poor ball use inside 50 and who was responsible. Lloyd said it’s everyone and we ar working on it





Seriously embarrassing interview. If Lloyd is in charge, we are rudderless

He’s a joke but the real joke is on the club for keeping him employed

 

[Soapy V]

He’s a joke but the real joke is on the club for keeping him employed

It was a seriously embarrassing interview. He has no answers

 

[SurreyBlue]

100% this. Club and players are disrespecting and taking for granted not only our support and members, but that of our young kids.

My eldest was at a 9 day camp over King's Birthday on Mornington Peninsula. Over 170 kids from Gr 5/6 public schools in Macedon Ranges + Bendigo attended.

Camp had no tv, or internet. No devices allowed. My daughter approached a camp leader and asked how Blues had gone vs *. Guy was visibly shocked. Replied. 'Yeh they won. You're the first kid to ask.' My daughter replied, 'Oh I thought there's a lot of footy fans here?'.

His response 'Yes there are. Except most are either Pies or Cats fans who ask. In all the camps I've been a leader, almost NOBODY has asked about Carlton.'

Utter indictment. This camp gets kids from all over VIC. Stench of disinterest and mediocrity from too many at CFC, including highly paid players, isn't exactly appealing to many kids.

Also, weren't Bendigo part of Carlton's zone at 1 point?

Generations lost. Sad

 

[Jimmyonesix]

No use banging on about 2023 it was an outlier..,How many of those victories were close fall over the line victories or opposition kicked themselves out of it..
We have been 1-2 quarter wonders for a very long time now even dating back to Teague days

 

[Red Bull]

He’s a joke but the real joke is on the club for keeping him employed

Carlton’s version of Dodoro
It’s quite bizarre really …

 

[Diamond Jim 007]

Exactly right, he knows the problem he's not a fool, but he can't fix it. Somebody else might be able to.

Also maybe these results will kick the club up the bum and start realising our experienced players aren't that good.

Was the worst effort by a Carlton team in years. North were ordinary.
I left after Fogarty goal.Never leave early.Went to Western Oval once and didn't see a goal until time on in last quarter.
Too many player on big salary's and playing very ordinary with poor game plan.
30 years of mostly rubbish.Please I have had enough.
I have gone to most games the last 61 years.Thinking of just watching Frankston in VFL.
At least they have a fai dinkum crack.

 

[Shambolic]

Was the worst effort by a Carlton team in years. North were ordinary.
I left after Fogarty goal.Never leave early.Went to Western Oval once and didn't see a goal until time on in last quarter.
Too many player on big salary's and playing very ordinary with poor game plan.
30 years of mostly rubbish.Please I have had enough.
I have gone to most games the last 61 years.Thinking of just watching Frankston in VFL.
At least they have a fai dinkum crack.

I love economics and footy trading / $ games.

No doubt when half of your salary cap by $ digresses or backtracks (say 8 players on near a million and none of them improving), a Coach can only go backwards.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Just watched first 2 quarters again

We are the worst drilled football side in the AFL. We go slow, don’t go inside, don’t run and support, and players up the ground don’t move or know where to run or create space. These are basics

This is game style, structure and lack of planning

This is COACHING

This doesn’t absolve the players but can’t rate them when we play like this. Our whole coaching group is an embarrassment. How they have a job defies logic

Worst drilled side I have ever seen

All the opposition needs to do is match pressure and then close up space. Then, we have no answers, NONE

Absolute disgrace and a waste of 3 years. Heads need to roll

THIS
DOES
MY
***
HEAD
IN
EVERY
****
WEEK