Autopsy 2025 Late flourish doesn't mask embarrassment

[JimmyRabbit49]

What we see in front of our eyes isn't as simple as our game plan not working - it is massive inconsistencies between it working brilliantly and not working at all.

We also see in front of our eyes the fact that we are the worst team in the league for DE (see Silvagni being caught holding the ball when a simple pass of 20m didn't make the distance - or Acres 2 misses in 2 weeks from 15m at worst).

We also see some of the leagues best players turning in performances that make them look like they are lucky to be on an AFL list.

And while people point to our contested style being too hard and making it harder to score - the Crows are currently averaging 1.6 fewer tackles, 13 fewer contested possessions and 0.8 fewer clearances than us but 3 more goals a game from 0.7 fewer inside 50's

 

[Stamos]

Sam has been a wonderful player, A.A. as well. Been through so much, the way he has gone about is so very admirable.

Truth is he needs to do some soul searching and realize that he needs to evaluate what he wants to do post footy playing

days. I don't care how many possessions he had on Sat, all I noticed was that he looked for the super safe options and that

meant usually he went 30 metres backwards. Hopefully he plays out the season mainly in the two's. Give the kids

opportunities, just play them. Find out whether they are made of the right stuff, or not.

I don't want to bag him, for all the reasons you provided. He's been a champion.
But currently he is providing the opposite of leadership. He shouldn't be in the team.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

I don't want to bag him, for all the reasons you provided. He's been a champion.
But currently he is providing the opposite of leadership. He shouldn't be in the team.

Couldn't believe it when he was the only Carlton player in the Coaches Votes

 

[bigblueboy]

The defensive approach is a huge concern and is undoubtedly aligned to Voss' rhetoric. The lack of desire and intent from the players is a bigger concern IMO as it is aligned to a lack of accountability.
Put the two together and you get 2025 Carlton.
Voss won't survive and the list needs a short and sharp rebuild.

 

[Stamos]

Couldn't believe it when he was the only Carlton player in the Coaches Votes

As I posted in another thread when I first saw it, surely that's just Clarko trolling Carlton

 

[bigblueboy]

I don't want to bag him, for all the reasons you provided. He's been a champion.
But currently he is providing the opposite of leadership. He shouldn't be in the team.

It's like shooting Bambi, despite all the evidence for a couple of years pointing to the obvious.

 

[Stamos]

It's like shooting Bambi, despite all the evidence for a couple of years pointing to the obvious.

I think he was still playing good footy in 23.

But selecting him for a final despite missing the whole year epitomises what has been wrong with our club over the last 12 months.
And now he should only be picked if covering for injuries.
And obviously can't be given another contract.

 

[bourbons]

We are the worst drilled football side in the AFL. We go slow, don’t go inside, don’t run and support, and players up the ground don’t move or know where to run or create space. These are basics

This.

Haven't been able to get to many games lately, was able to on Saturday and watching live it was so apparent. Blokes just standing in the forward line pointing to where they want the ball bombed to. No one putting blocks on, no one moving to create space, no run from behind, no imagination whatsoever.

Legit looked like country footy

 

[BeijingBlue]

This.

Haven't been able to get to many games lately, was able to on Saturday and watching live it was so apparent. Blokes just standing in the forward line pointing to where they want the ball bombed to. No one putting blocks on, no one moving to create space, no run from behind, no imagination whatsoever.

Legit looked like suburban footy

Smacks of very poor coaching, development and list management, in that order.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

This.

Haven't been able to get to many games lately, was able to on Saturday and watching live it was so apparent. Blokes just standing in the forward line pointing to where they want the ball bombed to. No one putting blocks on, no one moving to create space, no run from behind, no imagination whatsoever.

Legit looked like country footy

So we have 2 choices - 1 is to believe the coaching staff don't ask the players to do the things you observed weren't being done - the other is that the players just didn't do what was being asked.

 

[Osc1]

So we have 2 choices - 1 is to believe the coaching staff don't ask the players to do the things you observed weren't being done - the other is that the players just didn't do what was being asked.

Well, if you believe some on here the players are doing what’s being asked of. Which is frankly absurd. Asked to play like that? Don’t think so.

 

[bourbons]

So we have 2 choices - 1 is to believe the coaching staff don't ask the players to do the things you observed weren't being done - the other is that the players just didn't do what was being asked.

Yeah I get that no would want to play that way.

Its probably both? I don't think we have many high footy IQ players (to put it mildly lol), and our coaches have clearly been unable to instill in them much understanding or system regarding how the modern game is played. We'd have to be the worst team in the comp going inside 50.

 

[Diamond Jim 007]

Now you've lost me.

His defensive stats have been elite, up until this yr (I'm assuming, I haven't looked at his stats this yr, but to the eye he's not up to his normal standard). His 1v1 win rate, his intercepting, spoils and goals kicked against have all been outstanding for a long time. As a defender I have 0 complaints about Jacob - until this season, but that's a bigger conversation.

Wieters has had a bad year.Plenty of mistakes especially lately. Has plenty of mates

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Cripps and Weitering were our most dedicated hard working Soldiers leading by example.

I can only imagine how difficult it is to be able to keep that up week after week while watching all the half arsed efforts from so many team mates who appear more interested in picking up a paycheck and don't put in a 100% like those 2 do.


Weitering must be so frustrated with those around him in defence ... as well as forwards who can't convert
I don't blame those 2 Soldiers for the team going so badly

We treat Weitering like such a victim on here because he always looks frustrated & like he cares.

He’s as responsible as anyone for where we’re at.

Locking down a KPF every week & kicking it sideways isn’t enough for what we pay him or the sprays he gives his teammates.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

Weiters gets away with murder on this site, but I go and watch him, he's cost us two games this year on his own. All but cost us the Norf game as well, but there will be no repercussions at all. Cripps, about to shoot Bambi warning, not the same player since the baby. Is he taking on too much to the detriment of his bread and butter (footy), it's happened before to others. Even happened to me in the real world....
Waiting for the inevitable kick back punters

 

[Moon]

Cripper and Weits have been holding up the team for the last how many years..?

I'm not bagging them cause they've finally run out of steam and dropped off from their elite level this season... it is the others that haven't been pulling their weight for so long and getting away with it is where my finger is pointed.

I figure Cripps and Weiters have built up lots of credit in the Bank ... so I'm looking elsewhere long before I get to them

 

[Coona Blues]

Cripper and Weits have been holding up the team for the last how many years..?

I figure Cripps and Weiters have built up lots of credit in the Bank ... so I'm looking elsewhere long before I get to them

They are a massive part of the problem. They are the voice of the playing group, they should be the ones identifying the break down in communication or the questionable messaging.

Cripps is a great leader in his own right, but has irons in an increasing number of fires outside of his actual main job. He has a child and clearly is family oriented. Given his role and remuneration his energies should be first and foremost maximising his own output, but more importantly the output of each and every member of his team individually and as a whole.

Cripps, like Walsh does not empower those around him, he does not embrace team first ethos, he wants to be da man. Their first impulse is to take on the world themselves as opposed to bringing their team mates in to the game. The Cripps ignoring of Ollie Hollands a couple of weeks back is a glaring example.

Our leaders are individuals, they are not team players. The inability of Young and Weitering to exist in the same backline reflects more in the “leader” than Lewis. Time and time again Weiters picks his spot in the defence and demands others structure around him. Fluid zones rely on all parts moving in a proactive manner. Conversely Weiters loves a hand off more than he likes to accept a hand over. No place for egos in team structure.

 

[TCB-1935]

They are a massive part of the problem. They are the voice of the playing group, they should be the ones identifying the break down in communication or the questionable messaging.

Cripps is a great leader in his own right, but has irons in an increasing number of fires outside of his actual main job. He has a child and clearly is family oriented. Given his role and remuneration his energies should be first and foremost maximising his own output, but more importantly the output of each and every member of his team individually and as a whole.

Cripps, like Walsh does not empower those around him, he does not embrace team first ethos, he wants to be da man. Their first impulse is to take on the world themselves as opposed to bringing their team mates in to the game. The Cripps ignoring of Ollie Hollands a couple of weeks back is a glaring example.

Our leaders are individuals, they are not team players. The inability of Young and Weitering to exist in the same backline reflects more in the “leader” than Lewis. Time and time again Weiters picks his spot in the defence and demands others structure around him. Fluid zones rely on all parts moving in a proactive manner. Conversely Weiters loves a hand off more than he likes to accept a hand over. No place for egos in team structure.

Excellent observations...particularly the last paragraph.

Loved Weitering in his early years...not so much now. Lack of appreciation by him (if true) and many supporters for the effort Lewis Young put in while filling in for weeks while Weitering was injured at the start of two seasons was unwarranted and frankly unbelievable...how to destroy confidence, team spirit and morale in one easy lesson.

 

[carlton_99]

We treat Weitering like such a victim on here because he always looks frustrated & like he cares.

He’s as responsible as anyone for where we’re at.

Locking down a KPF every week & kicking it sideways isn’t enough for what we pay him or the sprays he gives his teammates.

To be fair he's also up there amongst key defenders for intercept possessions, contested marks and intercept marks. On top of once again having one of the lowest defensive one on one loss rates. So its not just locking down he's doing.

The kicking sideways and backwards isn't just on him either. It's a whole team thing. I think you would struggle to find a team that kicks backwards more when a switch isn't on than Carlton.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

To be fair he's also up there amongst key defenders for intercept possessions, contested marks and intercept marks. On top of once again having one of the lowest defensive one on one loss rates. So its not just locking down he's doing.

The kicking sideways and backwards isn't just on him either. It's a whole team thing. I think you would struggle to find a team that kicks backwards more when a switch isn't on than Carlton.

I watch this pretty closely and a lot of is because of Weitering. I've seen him ignore that many corridor or 45 kicks only to kick wide or backwards.

McGovern cops all the flak here for turning it over, but he's the only one willing to take a risk. Maybe Weitering doesn't have that license? Either way, it shits me to tears because he's a beautiful kick of the footy. Between him & JSOS (and to an extent, McGovern) they should be piercing through the opposition - I'm not sure I totally buy the 'inability to transition' theory, we have good kicks, they just have zero confidence in what they're doing.

 

[Neese]

Bestie and I are reluctantly going to Adelaide Oval Thursday night for the third time this season. We aren't very enthused though and it's the first time in about 20 years that we are very meh about it.

Tbh unless we show effort and competitiveness I will be pretty much done for giving this club and energy this season.

 

[ajb72]

Weitering. We have a rolls royce and we play him like Mick Martyn.

Other teams play a decoy on him, and he is happy being run out of the play. There is no desire to combat it.

 

[Stamos]

I'm not sure I totally buy the 'inability to transition' theory

Could that be because in D50 to F50 transition we're #1 ranked team in the AFL?

 

[Coops93]

The Weitering talk is interesting because at varying times he gets criticised or praised for doing basically the same thing.

The conversation about playing looser and being more intercepting vs being lockdown and more 1v1 has happened for years, and the more frequent consensus has been that majority prefer him to be 1v1 lockdown and beat his man.

I've always been in the opposite camp and have advocated for the loose intercepting role. We've seen probably for the last 10-15 yrs that the most impactful defenders aren't the lockdown ones, they're the ones that play loose and force intercepts and set up rebounds. Weiters has been the best 1v1 defender in the comp for years, but only made 1 AA, while several others with more intercepts, but not as good at broadly defending, have made it. The best key defender of the last 10 yrs is McGovern - who was constantly critiqued for not manning players often, but his impact was enormous. Moore is a rather poor 1v1 defender, but is a multiple time AA because he wins the ball and rebounds. Tom Stewart has turned playing the loose defender into an art form and the most important feature of his team.

However, when we're playing well and winning, Weiters gets praised for being the dour, brick wall that doesn't get beaten. When we lose, we want him to do more. Even this season, statistically, his 1v1 stats are very good, almost on par with last yr. It's also easier to set the defence up when you're the loose. When you're on a man, you've got to focus on him. When you're zoning off as the loose, you're watching everything and simple reading what's happening, which makes organising so much easier.

The problem with it all in the end is the lack of genuine 2nd KPD. This is why Collingwood brought in a journeyman C grader for play alongside Moore. Give the worker the lockdown job and get your blue-chip piece to be damaging. We get our blue-chip piece to be the lockdown. Maybe Young can be that, but I doubt it. We've seen enough times he leaks like a sieve. As good as that 15 minutes was where he backfilled Weiters (that gets mentioned so frequently it's almost the stuff of legend), he's proven time and again he isn't up to the level.

 

[mOccO77]

The defensive approach is a huge concern and is undoubtedly aligned to Voss' rhetoric. The lack of desire and intent from the players is a bigger concern IMO as it is aligned to a lack of accountability.
Put the two together and you get 2025 Carlton.
Voss won't survive and the list needs a short and sharp rebuild.

Our senior leaders are POOR. Including Cripps.
Unfortunately, can't clean out half the list.